Ear cleaner/wash recipe ? Anyone??

[Jane S]

Actually Rachel it's one of the products we don't make a huge profit from. I getso fed up with vet bashing - vets unfortunatly don't have the luxury of prescribing things without licences ...

Most ear cleaning drops supplied by vets are non-prescription and don't need to be bought from a vet - there are now several online pharmacies (eg Vetmedic, Canine Chemist) supplying a whole range of ear cleaners (just as we can buy ear drops for humans over the counter at Boots). I'm of course talking about basic ear cleaners like Leo not drops used to treat infections which can only be prescribed by a vet. You can generally get non-prescription products cheaper from the online pharmacies so they may be worth checking out for those that like using liquid ear cleaners.

Jane

[shonajoy]

Actually Rachel it's one of the products we don't make a huge profit from. I getso fed up with vet bashing - vets unfortunatly don't have the luxury of prescribing things without licences - you'll probably find that the maker of Thornit makes more of a profit, considering what it contains, I wonder if it's actually licensed at all? I've just checked my bottle - which was £4.95 for 20g, and it's got zinc oxide, talc, idodoform, and biric in it, no expensive stuff there. It also has no mention of a licence. I'm sure Miss Bett is making a good bit more profit on that than a vets, what with all their overheads.

Sorry Shona, it wasn't a dig at all vets; I was just thinking about how long my bottle of Thornit has lasted compared with a small bottle of ear cleaner from the vets with instructions for inexperienced owners to use it every two weeks 

Unless there is a specific diagnoses problem, is it necessary to use a prescribed/licensed product to clean their ears that frenqently   Surely if the vets were being genuine, they could suggest a non-medical alternative - or is that not allowed???

Vets cannot endorse anything that's not been licenced - maybe in the old days, but the litigation aspect nowadays, no way. The other problem with a vet not having seen an ear problem is that SOM owners may misdiagnose an infection as something mild, which could in severe cases lead to further problems.I know a lot of people here are very aware of the care of ears, but we often don't see dogs until their ears are a brown stinking mess - we had one in with a perforated ear drum due to a severe infection, the owner had phoned up wanting drops given out without her seeing a vet.

Our vets don't routinely recommend cleaning ears out with anything other than a damp cotton wool ball - they prefer not to interfere with the balance of the ear, unless ther is a bacterial infection or a yeast infection for example.

As for being genuine - would you be pleased if your vet was recommending something they hadn't heard of, or seen used? I've shown my Thornit to two of our vets, and they'd never seen it,I'd rather they were honest about it. Also, for every Thornit there may well be loads that don't work, and surely that's more of a con in the long run!

[Cob-Web]

Our vets don't routinely recommend cleaning ears out with anything other than a damp cotton wool ball - they prefer not to interfere with the balance of the ear, unless ther is a bacterial infection or a yeast infection for example.

As for being genuine - would you be pleased if your vet was recommending something they hadn't heard of, or seen used? I've shown my Thornit to two of our vets, and they'd never seen it,I'd rather they were honest about it. Also, for every Thornit there may well be loads that don't work, and surely that's more of a con in the long run!

I was thinking of the damp cotton wool and water option when I suggested that vets should recommend a non-medical alternative, I appreciate that vets can't endsorse Thornit - your vets obviously don't take advantage; but there are some that would prefer to sell unsuspecting owners something.......

[clairep4]

My vet gave me an oil-based ear cleaner called Cerrusolve or something, it's a herb based oil (thyme and something else but smells lovely). He was cautious about Thornits as he's seen dogs with problems from having too much of it put down their ears and it ending up like concrete in there, but he did say that if it was a case of a tiny weeny amount it was probably fine. Bella had lots of ear infections last year and I was forever having to clean them out but these days they are really nice and clean. I'm putting it down to her raw diet as I haven't done anything else different. I rarely clean them out now, just have a smell and a good look to make sure all seems well, and now that the weather is warming up I'm putting a tiny pinch of Thornits in once a month.

[shonajoy]

Our vets don't routinely recommend cleaning ears out with anything other than a damp cotton wool ball - they prefer not to interfere with the balance of the ear, unless ther is a bacterial infection or a yeast infection for example.

As for being genuine - would you be pleased if your vet was recommending something they hadn't heard of, or seen used? I've shown my Thornit to two of our vets, and they'd never seen it,I'd rather they were honest about it. Also, for every Thornit there may well be loads that don't work, and surely that's more of a con in the long run!

I was thinking of the damp cotton wool and water option when I suggested that vets should recommend a non-medical alternative, I appreciate that vets can't endsorse Thornit - your vets obviously don't take advantage; but there are some that would prefer to sell unsuspecting owners something.......

Of course there are some , my point was though that if THIS vet were trying to turn a quick buck, it likely wouldn't be on ear cleaner as they have a very small profit margin. It's also important that new owners reading this site understand the importance of seeing a vet if their dogs ears are persistently troublesome, as sometimes Thornit isn't appropriate.And ear infction can perforate an eardrum if left untreated.

Our profit margin on ear cleaner as posted below is 81 pence.

[shonajoy]

Actually Rachel it's one of the products we don't make a huge profit from. I getso fed up with vet bashing - vets unfortunatly don't have the luxury of prescribing things without licences ...

Most ear cleaning drops supplied by vets are non-prescription and don't need to be bought from a vet - there are now several online pharmacies (eg Vetmedic, Canine Chemist) supplying a whole range of ear cleaners (just as we can buy ear drops for humans over the counter at Boots). I'm of course talking about basic ear cleaners like Leo not drops used to treat infections which can only be prescribed by a vet. You can generally get non-prescription products cheaper from the online pharmacies so they may be worth checking out for those that like using liquid ear cleaners.

Jane

Absoloutely-I've just checked out their prices - Leo Ear Cleaner Dog 100ml for instance
Our Price £7.22  - and should point out our price for that product is £8.03, so a small mark up indeed, and we don't charge £2 postage. We do of course also give free advice on how to use it if needed,  but of course it's a free markt and people can buy non prescription medicines wherever.

I think it just needs to be said though that while Thornit is a fabulous product, people should take asdvic from their vt if unsure or if an ear problem persists.

[Jane S]

Absoloutely-I've just checked out their prices - Leo Ear Cleaner Dog 100ml for instance
Our Price £7.22  - and should point out our price for that product is £8.03, so a small mark up indeed, and we don't charge £2 postage. We do of course also give free advice on how to use it if needed,  but of course it's a free markt and people can buy non prescription medicines wherever.

Well no you won't charge postage, but people have to travel to the surgery incurring costs unless they live within walking distance The online pharmacies are also very helpful with advice and whilst there might be not much difference in some prices, there's usually a substantial difference if you go for an own brand (Canine Chemists do their own ear cleaner for example). We humans are encouraged to go to pharmacists for over the counter advice and most of us shop around for the best deals for non-prescription medicines for ourselves and try alternative remedies etc (which not all the medical profession would approve of) so why shouldn't we use this same approach for our pets? Of course you're right that people should always consult a vet if they're worried or a condition gets worse or persists unduly - that goes without saying.

I'm not knocking vets at all - they have a business to run which must make a profit or they would go bankrupt However sometimes the mark-ups applied to some non-prescription products by some vets is excessive, hence the increasing popularity of the online suppliers. We were once charged £5 for a tiny bottle of Hibiscrub by our vet when a huge bottle is available for less than this from an online pharmacy. Anyway, this is getting off topic but it's an interesting discussion anyway

[shonajoy]

Absolutely some people will preefr to buy own brand cheaper products, as is their right -  I'm all for people getting good deals, I do it myself!

We have four surgeries, all in pretty busy areas, so most peopl do tend to walk, apart from to the hospital branch which is a bit out of the way.We are encouraged as humans to self medicate, that's why I think it's great that people can come into our surgery and speak to a vet for free advice on what product is most appropriate - there seems to be a real negativity surrounding vets - particularly from Rachel earlier in this thread, and I'm just trying to even things up a bit.

It's a bit one sided sometimes I feel - we need vets to stay in business for surgery, etc, but feel we are getting ripped off a lot it seems - what I'd say then is complain if you pay over the odds and return the product - we prefer to sell lots and get repeat business and goodwill from our customers.

We sell a lot of things cheaper than our local pet shop, including some well known holistic foods, and if vets are ripping people off right left and centre, I don't know why those ones are still in business.

[Jane S]

We sell a lot of things cheaper than our local pet shop, including some well known holistic foods, and if vets are ripping people off right left and centre, I don't know why those ones are still in business.

Could it be because they don't know they're being ripped off I'm sure most people who get offered non-prescription stuff by their vet don't know they could buy them cheaper elsewhere. Our vets stock the usual array of food, chews, toys, collars & leads etc - all of which could be bought elsewhere for a cheaper price. They're in business because they're darn good vets with ultra modern facilities which is why we use them but they know we buy all our wormers & various other sundries elsewhere now

Jane

[Cob-Web]

We sell a lot of things cheaper than our local pet shop, including some well known holistic foods, and if vets are ripping people off right left and centre, I don't know why those ones are still in business.

Primarily due to lack of choice  Most towns only have one or two proper veterinary hospitals - and if you're lucky, then the practice is like yours sounds like Shona; but they are not all like that - hence the negativity from many people 

We have a population of 135000 on the Island, and only five different Veterinary businesses cover the whole County; several have satellite practices supported by their main hospital - but generally, the choice is limited to one, or maybe two in each town  The practices have to maximise their income from every client as they don't have the ability to attract clients from further afield (and many larger animals are registered with mainland vets), so maybe they can't afford to be as generous as some mainland practices 


Sorry Mods - totally off topic, but I felt I needed to explain why my experiences may not reflect that of Shona's 

[Jane S]

I think Rachel's experience is quite common for people if they don't live in an densely populated urban area. We live in the country and our current vet is over half an hour away by car - we've never had the luxury of being able to walk to a vet's surgery even when we did live in a small town. Of course in an urban area where several vet practices are competing for clients then prices will be more competitive but it's not the same in all areas which is why this thread has gone off at a bit of a tangent

Jane

[Colin]

I think Rachel's experience is quite common for people if they don't live in an densely populated urban area.

Jane

Even in densely populated areas it can be difficult finding a vet who can balance out quality of service without overcharging for the priviledge. I live in central(ish) London and despite having tried out 4 different vets I feel I've eventually had to settle for the lesser of evils - and this is not just my personal experience but that of every other local dog owner I've discussed this matter with. I'm not just knocking vets for the sake of it and really wish my own experiences hadn't made me cynical - luckily I'm not in the position whereby I have to avoid trips to the vet based on cost. Sadly some of the people I've encountered aren't in the same position. 

Having run my own business in London for over 16 years I'm fully aware of the increased overheads that are particular to this area. Those of you with vets you can trust to balance a quality service with a fair and reasonable pricing policy are very lucky - I'm envious of you.

Oh yes - and I've found Thornit to be excellent, I've never had any ear problems with either of my dogs - I bought my first bottle 3 years ago and have used less than half of it. 

[shonajoy]

We sell a lot of things cheaper than our local pet shop, including some well known holistic foods, and if vets are ripping people off right left and centre, I don't know why those ones are still in business.

Primarily due to lack of choice  Most towns only have one or two proper veterinary hospitals - and if you're lucky, then the practice is like yours sounds like Shona; but they are not all like that - hence the negativity from many people 

We have a population of 135000 on the Island, and only five different Veterinary businesses cover the whole County; several have satellite practices supported by their main hospital - but generally, the choice is limited to one, or maybe two in each town  The practices have to maximise their income from every client as they don't have the ability to attract clients from further afield (and many larger animals are registered with mainland vets), so maybe they can't afford to be as generous as some mainland practices 


Sorry Mods - totally off topic, but I felt I needed to explain why my experiences may not reflect that of Shona's 

Rachel, you and I have had this discussion a few times, and like Jane has pointed out, online pharmacies are good sources of cheaper non prescription medications. My point was, that as you are illustrating here, that not all vets are the same. Therfore, comments like *sounds like a nice little earner for the vets* aren't always true.In what way has your vet ripped you off so much on?

We have enough trouble trying to get people to take certain things seriously without them being reinforced - but sure, since vets are all out to make a fast buck, then that's ok collaterall I suppose

[shonajoy]

I think Rachel's experience is quite common for people if they don't live in an densely populated urban area.

Jane

Even in densely populated areas it can be difficult finding a vet who can balance out quality of service without overcharging for the priviledge. I live in central(ish) London and despite having tried out 4 different vets I feel I've eventually had to settle for the lesser of evils - and this is not just my personal experience but that of every other local dog owner I've discussed this matter with. I'm not just knocking vets for the sake of it and really wish my own experiences hadn't made me cynical - luckily I'm not in the position whereby I have to avoid trips to the vet based on cost. Sadly some of the people I've encountered aren't in the same position. 

Having run my own business in London for over 16 years I'm fully aware of the increased overheads that are particular to this area. Those of you with vets you can trust to balance a quality service with a fair and reasonable pricing policy are very lucky - I'm envious of you.

Oh yes - and I've found Thornit to be excellent, I've never had any ear problems with either of my dogs - I bought my first bottle 3 years ago and have used less than half of it. 

Isn't that pretty representative of every service in London? I mean, plumbers are hellish to get that don't charge the earth, nannies get flats, cars, and holidays, and shops charge £7 for a bagel.

Seriously though - how is a small practice in ANY business supposed to keep prices down - I mean here, a one bedroom flat is mayb £100K - London what £250? Premises are going to be more expensive, vets need more pay to live in a flat near work if they need on call cover, etc.

I love Thornit too - still have a half full bottle here.

[Cob-Web]

My point was, that as you are illustrating here, that not all vets are the same. Therfore, comments like *sounds like a nice little earner for the vets* aren't always true.

I agree entirely - some of us are lucky to have access to practices like yours Shona, but not all of us have the same experiences and can only base our opinions on the experiences we have had 

It may be that some of your clients feel differently to you about your practice - you can't please all of the people all of the time