Author Topic: Legally docked question  (Read 12104 times)

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Offline vixen

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Re: Legally docked question
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 02:35:38 PM »

. She had a litter of 8 with 5 bitches, the day of the birth we made our selection and so did the others. The pups that were going to working homes were then legally docked and those that were not weren't.

I find this very odd  :huh:  Did you physically select your girl? Most breeders will not allow visitors any where near a new born litter of puppies due to risk of infection.
A breeder who has a litter from an actual working bitch couldn't possibly know which puppy they are going to select to go to working or non working homes as at this age the puppies wouldn't have shown any characteristics.
Most breeders with a working litter would wish their puppies to go to a working home and thus have all the litter docked.  Usuallly working homes would get priority of choice and any remaining would be offered to a non-working but active home.
That is my understanding anyway.
Max (GSP)  always in my heart

Offline Macie-Working-Cocker

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Re: Legally docked question
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2017, 02:38:43 PM »
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Offline ips

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Re: Legally docked question
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2017, 02:46:49 PM »
But surely at the time of birth the "working breeder" assumes all will go to working homes so docks the litter as is the done thing.
It is my opinion that working cockers should be docked even if they are not going to working homes because at some time the dog is going to hunt some cover weather the owner likes it or not and a WC tail never stops wagging even if its in heavy bramble.
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline Macie-Working-Cocker

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Re: Legally docked question
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2017, 02:51:54 PM »
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Offline vixen

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Re: Legally docked question
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2017, 02:54:06 PM »
My personal belief is that owners of working cocker biitches who don't actually work their dogs, shouldn't breed from them.  So many pet working cockers are now being bred who have never 'worked' a single day in their lives.  I really feel that the wonderful biddability of the breed that I love is being diluted by this practice.  I have seen many a working cocker bred from pet parents who is out of control and ends up in rescue. They have all the instincts of the breed but none of the biddability.
Soon there will be a division just like what happened with the show and working strain.  There will be yet another type that are the non working workers who will be ones with the undocked tails.
It is just my opinion and I am sure lots of people will disagree with it.
Max (GSP)  always in my heart

Offline ips

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Re: Legally docked question
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2017, 02:57:45 PM »
Keep her tail feathers trimmed short to avoid getting stuck when the little madam inevitably chases a bunny wabbit into bramble 😁

Regardless of any comments above it sounds like you have an ideal active lifestyle for a WC 👍
Enjoy the ride 😊
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline ips

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Re: Legally docked question
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2017, 02:58:44 PM »
My personal belief is that owners of working cocker biitches who don't actually work their dogs, shouldn't breed from them.  So many pet working cockers are now being bred who have never 'worked' a single day in their lives.  I really feel that the wonderful biddability of the breed that I love is being diluted by this practice.  I have seen many a working cocker bred from pet parents who is out of control and ends up in rescue. They have all the instincts of the breed but none of the biddability.
Soon there will be a division just like what happened with the show and working strain.  There will be yet another type that are the non working workers who will be ones with the undocked tails.
It is just my opinion and I am sure lots of people will disagree with it.

Totally agree 👍
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: Legally docked question
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2017, 03:05:45 PM »
My personal belief is that owners of working cocker biitches who don't actually work their dogs, shouldn't breed from them.  So many pet working cockers are now being bred who have never 'worked' a single day in their lives.  I really feel that the wonderful biddability of the breed that I love is being diluted by this practice.  I have seen many a working cocker bred from pet parents who is out of control and ends up in rescue. They have all the instincts of the breed but none of the biddability.
Soon there will be a division just like what happened with the show and working strain.  There will be yet another type that are the non working workers who will be ones with the undocked tails.
It is just my opinion and I am sure lots of people will disagree with it.
I agree.  And there is already a split within the working type.  There are those  bred specifically for agility.  Usually required to be as small as possible, yappy and manic.  A far cry from the great working gundogs they should be.
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline Macie-Working-Cocker

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Re: Legally docked question
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2017, 03:09:12 PM »
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Offline Londongirl

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Re: Legally docked question
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2017, 03:09:57 PM »
Keep her tail feathers trimmed short to avoid getting stuck when the little madam inevitably chases a bunny wabbit into bramble 😁

Regardless of any comments above it sounds like you have an ideal active lifestyle for a WC 👍
Enjoy the ride 😊

As someone who regularly has to disentangle both ears at once of a show cocker who's gone head first into the brambles, I'd say carry nail scissors.
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline ips

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Re: Legally docked question
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2017, 03:10:12 PM »
Could one also argue another split. Those bred for FT and those from more "propper" working line ??

I will get my coat 😁
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline ips

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Re: Legally docked question
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2017, 03:15:42 PM »
My personal belief is that owners of working cocker biitches who don't actually work their dogs, shouldn't breed from them.  So many pet working cockers are now being bred who have never 'worked' a single day in their lives.  I really feel that the wonderful biddability of the breed that I love is being diluted by this practice.  I have seen many a working cocker bred from pet parents who is out of control and ends up in rescue. They have all the instincts of the breed but none of the biddability.
Soon there will be a division just like what happened with the show and working strain.  There will be yet another type that are the non working workers who will be ones with the undocked tails.
It is just my opinion and I am sure lots of people will disagree with it.

I don't think people who don't necessarily want to work them but love the breed and have the perfect home for them should be told they can't have one because the tail wont be docked on it and it wont be worked. Yet they can offer is all the exercise and commitment it needs otherwise.

Mine is exercised just as much, if not more than any that is worked, she is in perfect condition and very content so it can be done.

It can actually be said both ways. A local bloke who lives along a trail I use claims to be this big hunting man, wears all the gear, talks the talk yet I never see his dogs being worked and whenever I pass they are in his lock up without fail.. and he has a two working cockers among other breeds. I would go as far as to say they look overweight and depressed yet he's this big hunting bloke with all this experience. Im sure there's plenty of those out there too.

Many gundog folk do not exercise there dogs per se (as in free running or walks) its kennel, train / work kennel etc.

Ps
I totally agree about being able to occupy a working dog but not work it. Trouble is not everyone has the understanding as you obviously have of what a commitment it is to have a working dog . Hence rescue centres being inundated with spaniels who's owners bought them because they looked cute
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: Legally docked question
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2017, 03:18:35 PM »
Could one also argue another split. Those bred for FT and those from more "propper" working line ??

I will get my coat 😁
I think so.  Although the 'not quite fast enough' trialling bred dogs very often make excellent working dogs.
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline vixen

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Re: Legally docked question
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2017, 03:19:02 PM »

I don't think people who don't necessarily want to work them but love the breed and have the perfect home for them should be told they can't have one because the tail wont be docked on it and it wont be worked. Yet they can offer is all the exercise and commitment it needs otherwise.

My comments were not directed at you personally as I am sure you offer your girl a perfect home.
But you stated yourself you would have purchased a docked dog if you hadn't had a choice.  Most reputable breeders of working cockers usually give priority to working homes and what is left over is offered to a active pet home (hence the whole litter is docked).
Max (GSP)  always in my heart

Offline Macie-Working-Cocker

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Re: Legally docked question
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2017, 03:27:57 PM »
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