Gun nervy-help please!

[babushka]

Hi there all
can anyone advise me on how to tackle gun nervousness in my dog? He goes in the beating line fine and even picks up from a peg as long as he's not too close to the guns. When he's close (less than 20yds) to the guns he crouches down and tries to slink off while glancing back at me. I think it might be nervous anticipation of the retreive and/or expecting something to happen(dummy thrown, being sent out etc) as well as the noise. My question to you good people is, should i try to get him used to the noise with nothing happening afterwards OR get him used to it because somethings going to happen and it might take his mind off it! I don't want to make things worse and ruin him for good. Thanks

[Top Barks]

 I don't shoot but from where I am it sounds like you need to desensitize your dog to the sound of the gun.
The response you are describing sounds like a fear reaction and if you continue to expose your dog at levels he finds scary it is possible you will make the problem worse.
How is he with other sudden noises? did you introduce the sound of the gun as a pup?
Desensitization involves keeping the dog at a distance he is not sacred by the sound and pairing the sound with something good happening.
As your dog can cope (you'll have to watch his body language) move closer or increase the volume of the sound, all the time pairing it with some thing your dog likes.
believe it or not i have had to do this with one of my dogs and the sound of the vacuum cleaner which he used to totally stress out about.
If you continue to continually expose your dog to a stimulus it finds aversive IE use flooding techniques, you may get lucky and the dog will habituate but in all probability your dog will become more sensitized and stressed which then may generalize on to other things.
Best of luck.
Mark

[spanielcrazy]

get him used to it because somethings going to happen

He absolutely needs a motivation, and a positive association with the sound of the guns. He needs to learn that wonderful things happen when the guns go off. However you will need to take it slow and go back to basics with him, and restart him as though he were a young puppy. I would go back to using a starters pistol rather than full on shotguns as well. You'll need to work with someone to handle the gun so you can give your full attention to your dog

A couple of the articles below describe a "chain gang" which is not as bad as it might initially sound. You can also substitues just being on lead if you are more comfortable. The basic idea is to put your dog in a group of seasoned gundogs (and trainers) who are very keen on birds, and use them to help teach your dog.

I would also strongly recommend working with a professional gun dog trainer, as this is definitely a make-or-break point for your dog. Be sure to find out about their experience and methods before you commit. I do mean here that you and the dog work with the trainer, not sending the dog out to be trained. You want to establish a bond with your dog, that includes trust 



Here are a few articles:

http://spanieljournal.com/4pkadlec.html

http://www.huntsmith.com/articles/gunshy.html

http://www.gundogsonline.com/Article/Gun-Shy-Dogs-Page1.htm

http://www.versatiledogs.com/ask/first5.html

[Nicola]

How old is your dog and at what age was he introduced to gunfire? How did you do it? Is he nervous about retrieving and being sent out when there are no guns around like in training sessions? Do you train using a starting pistol and is he nervous of that? Sorry for all the questions but it helps to know.

As Mark says gun nervous or gun shy dogs often associate the fear induced by the gunfire with what they're being asked to do at the time - hunt and/or retrieve - so even if you can get them over the fear of the actual bangs by making them associate it with something good you'll often still have a nervy dog on your hands as they've generalised it to the whole working experience which isn't ideal as you obviously want them to enjoy it. A pro trainer could perhaps help you with the aid of some very steady and experienced dogs (Labradors would probably be better than Cockers!!) but be careful about vetting the methods they use as it could very easily be made worse.

[babushka]

Thanks for all the advice. In answer to your questions- he's 16months old now and i trained him myself but as i don't shoot i never really got him used to guns. i only recently got a starting pistol and fired it at a distance while throwing a dummy to get him to sit to shot before retreiving etc. He's not nervous about retrieving or hunting and is a v. keen retriever. However he is jumpy with other loud noises (doors banging, things falling over near him etc). I got him from the breeding kennels when he was nearly 12 weeks old and so he missed out on most of that crucial socialisation period up to 12 wks. This i think might well be a lot of the problem with his general nervy character although saying that i do have a strong bond with him and he trusts me. I'm going to try de-sensitisation to noise but if he can't hack it i won't worry cos he's my little boy and i don't want to freak him out

[Tasha]

we usually pop a recently shot gun broken near their bed so they can have a good sniff at it.  It might not be the gun thats causing the problem it might be the smell.

[millrace]

if you have a clay shooting ground near you,,have word with them and go over and play around area slowly getting closer to where the guns are as you get more used to the noise..multiple guns at a clay ground are very similar to a shoot day....play games or just walk up and down past it on the road..great way of getting dog used without any fear or even ceing what is going on....

[babushka]

Thanks for your suggestions, will try everything! Keep them coming.

[babushka]

i've had a go at the de-sensitisation techniques but i just seem to be making it worse. i must be tense or giving off the wrong vibes or something. he starts off ok but then gets more nervous even if the bang stays at the same distance! i'm going to try the clay shoot suggestion as then i'll be out of the equation and hopefully more relaxed! Cheers!

[Coco]

We were told.....Serve his dinner in a metal bowl and chuck it down on the floor with a clatter/bang (best if you have tiles or hard floor  ) so he associates the loud noise with a good experience. 

Edited - obviously building up to this with maybe a plastic bowl etc.

[spanielcrazy]

It's only been 7 days since your original post, you're not going to cure this overnight. Take it very slow and easy and definitely do relaaaaxxxx! Remind yourself you have all the time in the world for this  

[Top Barks]

If your dog is reacting then the sound is too much.
for desensitization to work your dog needs to be relaxed at every stage of the process. IT TAKES TIME.
if you carry on exposing your dog to levels of sound which he finds stressful there is no wonder he is worse!
Who gave you the advice? It is just not the way to do it for a dog that is already reactive to loud sound.
It has taken me two years of work to desensitize a noise phobic dog to just a vaccum cleaner!

[babushka]

Hi Mark
I appreciate what you're saying. He is very noise sensitive to lots of things and I'm wondering if a trip to a good gundog trainer might be a good idea. The only time he doesn't bother about the starting pistol is when I'm at a distance and he's out on a walk running mad with my other cocker! He doesn't even like his food bowl rattling on the stone floor as he eats!! Do you think he's a lost cause?

[Top Barks]

I couldn't tell without seeing him but he sounds like my Douglas who is ok with gunshot at a distance but if you fart too loudly does a runner!
Any banging and crashing sends him running for cover!