Undescended U know whats - Part 2

[jakieboy]

Ok - already explained in the other section about this.

This is for the breeders out there -

If i am getting this right, this is a genetic problem, and as such - does it mean i shouldn't use ebbie again - the books all seem to suggest it's from the male side, or should i just be more careful over the sire.  Also, how long should i wait to see if it does descend - cos obviously i would have to advise the breeder of the sire that he is throwing this condition, or should i just tell her now that it's a possibility  

Also - is this another thing that would go against finn if i did try to show him - like i said i don't expect to win but i would at least like to have some sort of chance - if his markings and this go against him - he won't stand a chance at all (add to that the fact that he is undocked which is recognised by kc now but everyone still says about it being a prob)

Nikki xxx                    

[Pammy]

Nikki - the breed standard says -

Note:
Male animals should have two apparently normal testicles fully descended into the scrotum.

So if he doesn't drop the other then it will count against him.

It's very early to worry about this at the mo. If I remember rightly - Buddy's number two didn't make its way permanently into the world until he was about 16 weeks old.

Jane will be able to advise more about the hereditary aspects and need to withdraw from a breeding programme.                    

[Jane S]

Hi Nikki

I'm afraid that while Finn's tail wouldn't necessarily be a problem in the show ring, his markings would be (unless the white disappears as he gets older) & if he also has only one descended testicle, then that would be 2 big "no no's" as far as the show ring is concerned. However, at 8 weeks, he has plenty of time for the other to drop so you have no need to panic or rush into neutering. If he does remain a unilateral cryptorchid (posh name for only having one), then this is a hereditary defect, probably recessive in nature (ie both parents carry the faulty gene not just the sire) Having said that, if breeders in Cockers removed from the gene pool all those dogs & bitches that have produced cryptorchids, there wouldn't be many left It is a relatively common defect & relatively minor in that neutering & removal of the undescended testicle removes any health risk to the dog & he can live a perfectly normal healthy life following the surgery & indeed, even without surgery, many cryptorchid dogs will live out healthy lives without developing cancer. It makes sense that if a particular mating has produced a cryptorchid puppy that the mating is not repeated, but there is no need to decide that Ebbie should not be bred from again. Many geneticists would view such a decision as "throwing the baby out with the bath water"                    

[jakieboy]

Oh i know his markings are his biggest failings, the reason i want to go to ringcraft and training isn't cos i think he'll get anywhere - it's just to know what to expect etc.  It's just something i've always been interested in - but not enough if you get what i mean.   If I enjoy it and feel i could get somewhere I could always invest in a good show quality dog in the future or hope to get something reasonably good from ebbie.  At least now i think he has two, sure i felt 2 earlier - so that won't go against him lol

Nikki xx                    

[cbabe]

I know of a pup with the same problem - the vet advised castration automaticly. However the puppy wasn't that old. Vets tend to be over keen to castrate or spay. I'd advise that you get plenty of advice on when they should drop and make the decision yourself, based on this.

As for genetic - i was told by a specialist (did my homework) that it could just be a glitch in the making of the puppy - especially if no other siblings demonstrate the same defect, just like some heart defects.

Clare                    

[Jane S]

I think Finn's are both in place present & correct now Clare Most undescended testicles in Cockers are genetic in origin & likely to be inherited as either a recessive or polygenic defect (according to leading geneticists) so it wouldn't be surprising to find only 1 or 2 affected pups in a litter. Certain breeding lines are known to produce the problem & can be traced back to dogs way back in the past who were unilateral cryptorchids themselves. Such dogs wouldn't be used at stud now but they were in years gone by when there wasn't the knowledge we have now about genetic defects.                    

[cbabe]

By siblings i did mean extended - crossing more than one litter.