Is it much harder to train a show cocker?

[deeveecee]

Hi all. Another silly question from a newbie (who is still looking for the right pup).

I've read a lot about the various types of cocker, and spoken to every cocker owner I walk past in whatever park I'm in. I had originally wanted a working cocker, based on the advice of a friend who owns one, but now feel like the energy requirements might tip us over the edge as a family.  We have 3 kids and both work (full/part time from home, so can be around for the dog)

We've now settled on a show type, as the generalised traits would probably suit us better.

However I'd be very keen to train the dog up, I just wondered how big a difference there is in capability to train up a show vs a working.

I'll never take it on a hunt, but, for example I'd like to train it to retrieve properly.

My assumption is that it's possible, but just won't necessarily be as fast picking things up?

Any thoughts appreciated.

[bizzylizzy]

I‘ve never had a working line, mine is show so I can’t make a comparison and can only speak from my experience with this one. Humphrey loves to retrieve and is a natural, I‘m in a dog club where we have lots of different breeds and most of the others have had to be taught or at least encouraged  whereas Humph just did it...
I’m not sure what sort of level you’re aiming for? We only do it with dummies as a sport so aren‘t looking for perfection but we do try to keep the exercises „disciplined“ so the dog has to learn a certain amount of self control.
Humphrey’s very enthusiastic about learning anything new and, providing I get the training right, picks things up very quickly, the only problem I have is that he can be stubborn and I need to make sure I keep him motivated otherwise he gets bored and just won‘t cooperate but on the whole. I‘d say, as long as you concentrate on activities which Spaniels have, as a breed , a natural adaption for they‘re pretty biding and fairly easy to train. Hope that helps....

[Pearly]

We have five cocker spaniels, one show type and four working strain.

A very wise and renowned Cocker man told me that “the natural cycle of a spaniel is to hunt, flush, chase, catch, kill and eat.  We ask a great deal of our dogs to break that cycle at flush and to bring their quarry back for us to eat!”  Peter Jones.

I would say its all in the breeding.  Not all working cockers are bonkers and want exercise all the time and not all show cockers are slow or have off switches!  My show type at almost 10 (and unwell at the moment) is hyper most of the time, as a pup she was on the go from 5am to 11pm if I allowed it.  The workers I have found to mostly be easier to train but have one with the prey drive of an Exocet missile! That is, shes fast with explosive energy making her hard to catch if she decides to chase and that is her biggest thrill in life!

The show type does not, will not and cannot retrieve but that her line - the breeder warned me as such before I collected her.  She’s been to some of the best trainers there is and left them bewildered or bemused!  Friends with show types have dogs that do retrieve but thats not the reason for having their dog(s).

My show type has worked five seasons on a shoot and is a great beating dog - shes a game finder, flushes then comes back to tell me! She is stubborn, obstinate, disobedient and only interested in whats good for herself but also affectionate and very pretty!

The workers are a different league in intelligence.  They can open crates, stairgates (we now have locking stable doors throughout) and unless kept mentally active will get up to all sorts of mischief, often destructively so.

Show types need to be groomed.  Workers need mental stimulation.  If you are looking to have a well trained dog I would suggest finding a breeder than can demonstrate the attributes of the pup you are looking for - they should be happy to show you footage of the dam retrieving (sire influence whilst important its the traits from the dam you should look for) and that should be under control with no running in!

Good luck in your search

Jayne

 

[Barry H]

Pearls of wisdom above (pathetic attempt at a pun!)

I have a show Cocker.  He's true to type and in an ideal universe I'd have loved to campaign him on the show circuit.  Grooming is very labour intensive (but not a chore for me). His retrieve is worse than his recall which after five years is still rubbish despite wearing myself out with lots of training.  Probably me being a bit lax but I reached the point where I felt that no matter how much effort I put in I was fighting a losing battle.  He's improved with age, which is something, but he's not food oriented and I've accepted that he will never be 100% reliable.  I sometimes wonder if he's a  spaniel on the outside and a bloodhound on the inside.  The only thing he loves is using his nose.  He hates water and will walk around puddles.  Throw a ball or a stick and you get the 'Are you having a laugh?' look.  All other obedience training has been really good though and he's very quick to learn anything that can be taught in the house.  Having said that,  his temperament and character are fantastic and I wouldn't change him for the world.

Moral: You won't know how they'll turn out until it's too late.  You will love him/her to bits anyway and it will be one of the best decisions you'll ever make.

[theshrew]

Great advice above tbh but i think this shows it the difference is just on the dog to an extent.

Missy - Working she was mad as a pup but brilliant. Wouldn't set a foot in water of any kind, food food food food please.

Candy - Show - Very nervous start, a lot harder work. No way you would train her to the same level, would jump in every bit of water going.

Bailey - Show rescue dog - Hes actually very clever, i think if id had him as a pup i think he'd would have trained quite well tbh It's the fear that's been installed in him that holds him back now.

And as mentioned the coats are very different

Personally id have a working over a show from my experience although there both brilliant.   

[rubyduby]

I am surprised at the number of comments regarding the 'grooming' of show Cockers, I have had them for just over 40 yrs now and have groomed them rarely and never had a bad scruffy smelly or moulty dog...I am on Cocker no 7

[bizzylizzy]

I am surprised at the number of comments regarding the 'grooming' of show Cockers, I have had them for just over 40 yrs now and have groomed them rarely and never had a bad scruffy smelly or moulty dog...I am on Cocker no 7

Humphrey a golden show. His coat isn‘t particularly thick but but since being castrated he does produce a lot more undercoat around his sides, belly and legs. If I don‘t comb him out at least every 3-4 days he ends up thicks matts which can then only be cut out. On top of that there are various sorts of seeds, twigs and heaven knows what else which get entangled, some days in the summer, he needs doing after every walk.  The alternative would be to have him clipped which would, admittedly, be a lot less work but I prefer to try to keep a more natural look. I‘ve had various breeds are over the last 40 years but have never spent so much time grooming any of them....

[Barry H]

I am surprised at the number of comments regarding the 'grooming' of show Cockers, I have had them for just over 40 yrs now and have groomed them rarely and never had a bad scruffy smelly or moulty dog...I am on Cocker no 7

It's entirely personal choice, of course, and a lot depends on the coat, but for me there is no more gorgeous sight than a well-groomed, nicely turned out show Cocker.  Just another aspect of the enjoyment of ownership, but I don't go overboard.  Ten minutes a day and a thorough going over at the weekend keeps him looking his best and I only strip him when he needs it.  Not all unwanted hair can be stripped out so trimming feet, inside ears, tail feathering etc has to be done from time to time.  I try to spread this out so avoiding long sessions.  Besides, a good grooming ventilates the coat, removes old and damaged hair, prevents matting (especially armpits and round his wedding tackle), promotes good circulation, and apart from anything else is great bonding time.