working cut for show

[winewood]

Hi , As I keep mine pretty active (both show cockers)= gundog working tests, tracking, agility,flyball and obedience would mine look silly if I sissored there coats quite short to make them look more like working cockers it would be so much easier especially tracking and GDWT which are usually held in places where the grass is waist high. Groomers here would just want to clip and give a standard cocker pet cut, they have only ever had their heads, ears and neck clipped and I use Mars coat king on back. Does anyone have good close up  pics of their working cocker from all sides so I could show a groomer?

thanks heaps

[spanielcrazy]

No pics, sorry, but no, it wouldn't looks silly at all. I do a trim like that on quite a few of my customers dogs; English and American cockers. Makes life easier for all 

[Helen]

here is jarv for you - but I have to tell you we don't clip at all.  He has a fairly short coat naturally.....





(feathering on his legs desperately needs stripping, and tuft is not compulsary - well it is in our house according to OH  )

and one showing his chest

[winewood]

Thanks for replies, Spanielcrazy after looking at photos of Jarvis (beautiful shots beautiful dog) what do you do with the legs, legs have always been my problem never sure what to do with them. At the moment I just scissor them very short from a distance alright but up close yuk especially Indi (blue roan) Kody (black) seems to look quite good.
The chest and underneath could you give a rough measurement, also got to admit I like the tail full, so I might just get it shortened but not off Indi's tail looks quite impressive like a setters. I will take these pics and your advice to a cocker breeder here who also has her own grooming place hopefully this way I will end up with what I want. Being black his coat is so thick while hers is quite thin but knots easier than his. If I take them back this short how long (roughly) would it take before needing to trim again. Would one short trim last for the winter?

[spanielcrazy]

Here's what I would do: Depending on the length you want the "jacket" or body, the groomer can pick out a snap on comb to give you the length you want. (Or you can leave it natural and skip this step; or you can use a blade on the body--your choice) Then the groomer would set the pattern on the body like normal, but coming down a bit lower on the sides

Then decide on the length of the belly and leg feathers, the groomer will then use a longer snap on comb and run it through the belly, chest and leg feathering. You can go as short as Jarvis is or a bit longer if you like. Scissor or thin to blend and even up

Front legs, use a #5 blade or thinning shears and take off the hair on the fronts, inside and outsides of the legs, skimming and blending with the blade or thinners till the hair is just coming off the back of the leg (think English or Irish Setter here) Blend at the top where the leg joins the body. Then use scissors or thinners to set the length of front feathers

Hind legs: scissor hair from hock down to within 1 fingers width from the back of the leg,

Feet: do as normal cocker feet

Ears: can be scissored or thinned to desired length


Depends on how long or short you go as to how long it will last, but even if you go super short, you'll probably need to go at least once mid season to have feet trimmed and a light tidy up. Foot hair grows amazingly fast 

[spanielcrazy]

Ooops forgot to say: the groomer can run the combs (off the clipper) through their hair for you. Whatever is sticking up is what will be cut off. That way you can get an idea of length and you and the groomer can decide on what you want 

[winewood]

Thanks heaps,  I really did not want to clip as I think if the coat goes curly it will be even harder to get grass seeds and prickles out of the coat. What if I just continue to use the Mars but go further down the body to bottom of ribs. Then get the groomer just to do the scissoring of the legs  as I can clip the head and the ears inside and out and keep them shorter than I do  at the moment they are a good 3 fingers longer than the ear. Under the belly what do I do?  A wee bit nervous of doing the lot myself afraid of a disaster and a funny looking dog make that 2 funny looking dogs. Here in Australia  people don't know what a working cocker is, only 3 I know of in the county and that is one in Tasmania , 2 Western Aust.

[spanielcrazy]

The beauty of the snap on combs is that they are cutting farther out on the hair shaft, not digging into the undercoat, so do not alter the coat in the way that blades do. They merely take length offf the hair.

You can certainly hand scissor the belly. First set your length by scissoring under the belly. Don't cut in a straight line, follow the contour of the dog. Then with either thinning shears or scissors pointing down and slightly in--again, following the contour of the dog and the direction of the hair growth, round off the belly coat (from the side) so it looks more natural instead of just hanging down straight cut like a fringe. So you are just gently rounding and shaping the belly to look natural

When doing it from the side, your scissors or thinners should be pointing in the direction of the curve of the ribs and the growth of the hair. For example, Brackens belly coat sweeps forward naturally toward the front, so when I scissor that, my scissors are not straight up and down, but pointing slightly in, following his rib cage and waist, and slightly forward, following his hair growth direction.

It may take some experimention but you'll catch on 

[Nicola]

I get Tilly clipped even though she's a worker as her previous owners used to pretty much shave her right back and she's been spayed so tends to go very fuzzy. It still looks fairly natural though, I keep her paws and up to about halfway up her legs trimmed short as well. They don't touch her ears, which are quite full for a worker, or her chest ruff...



Rodaidh only ever gets his ears combed out and his paws and legs trimmed and this is how he looks. He doesn't have a lot of feathering, his coat is very fine and silky and his chest ruff is probably the 'hairiest' part of him along with his ears. He does have the tufty elbows though 





Alfie has more feathering than Rodaidh and I do his paws and legs same as the other two but also trim his feathering back slightly on his back legs and strip out the black fluff he gets on his legs by hand. He has a full tail and I trim it as well, particularly when he's working so he's less likely to get it caught in the undergrowth and damage it. This is him sideways on so you can see the feathering on his legs and the way he carries his tail, I trim it to keep that natural curved shape.



I would definitely keep the belly well trimmed on a working dog, I trim all long straggly hair on their bellies and in their armpits etc. as it's a magnet for mud and brambles.

[sportsmonki]

Could you use an untrimmed cavalier king charles spaniel look on your cocker?  If I were to trim Storm's coat back I think that is the sort of look I would go for as they have some feathering, but not too much that it is constantly getting things tangled in it.

Good Luck!

[winewood]

Thanks for help, will go look for snap on combs, sounds like the best way to tackle this, might just try doing it gradually. Yesterday took the ears shorter, and thinned out the feathering on the legs,  took away some of the belly hair, but left the fringing (too scared) His chest looks a little funny, infact so does hers. So Next step is chest and side fringing, as I said will start of just using the mars further down the ribs. After looking closely, mine are show cocker's, Indi was on limited register as she doesn't fit the show standards, but I think she is just more of a throw back to original cocker's, flatter head no dome, thinner coat, longer body and much more active than him, and has more drive than him will go under or over fences for a scent where he waits next to the fence waiting for me to let him through. Will try to take picture, interested what you think.

[Annette]

If you find the snap on combs could you post a link on here please. I confess I have only a very hazy idea what you are talking about!

[spanielcrazy]

If you find the snap on combs could you post a link on here please. I confess I have only a very hazy idea what you are talking about!

Here's a good photo and chart with what sizes cut to what lengths, to give you an idea of what snap on combs are. They fit over a clipper blade (usually blade sizes 10-40) and raise the clipper away from the body, so the cut is longer. Gives much more variety and options for the clippers! 

http://www.technogroom.co.uk/comb.htm

All the clipper manufacturers make snap on combs, lengths will vary by manufacturer, and all sell them individually if you don't want to buy a whole set 



Thread hijack   Nicola, that photo of Alfie so reminds me of the old paintings of hunting spaniels from the 1700s and 1800s. Couldn't you just see that as painting over your fireplace? 

[Nicola]

Thread hijack   Nicola, that photo of Alfie so reminds me of the old paintings of hunting spaniels from the 1700s and 1800s. Couldn't you just see that as painting over your fireplace? 

That's so cool    He does look a bit like that doesn't he... If anyone reading this can paint let me know!!