CockersOnline Forum

Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: Terri Carpenter on December 23, 2005, 12:38:39 PM

Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: Terri Carpenter on December 23, 2005, 12:38:39 PM
Not sure if this should go here or under genetics and breeding but here goes

I've asked my vet about optigen testing and they have said that they have contacted all the labs they use and they do not do it - it is only offered by labs in the states and costs about £250.00. Can anyone shed any light on this for me?
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: silkstocking on December 23, 2005, 12:45:46 PM
Quote
Not sure if this should go here or under genetics and breeding but here goes

I've asked my vet about optigen testing and they have said that they have contacted all the labs they use and they do not do it - it is only offered by labs in the states and costs about £250.00. Can anyone shed any light on this for me?
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Hi Terri

From what I know about it, from talking with my breeder about it a month or so ago, yes the blood tests have to be sent to the states, she didn't know of anywhere that did it here and that is the price I was told as well.

It's not that I was getting them done, its because the breeder had had a few of her dogs done.

What does the usual eye screening test for.......... is it the same thing, but the optigen can see further into the future???? I know the screening has to be done evry few years and the runs out, does optigen give you the answer straight away. So if you have that you don't need to screen every few years????

Lisa x

Lisa x
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: Annette on December 23, 2005, 12:49:01 PM
I've seen something about this before. Try doing a search.

I'm pretty sure that you can get it done in France.

I think some of our members will be able to shed some better light on this for you.
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: Terri Carpenter on December 23, 2005, 12:51:29 PM
I am considering breeding from Holly and thought the first step would be to get the necessary health checks carried out. Can I ask the experts here what checks they would carry out as I have been told various things and if I do decide to breed from her I intend to do everything properly.

I already have the Book of the Bitch (think that is the right title but it is downstairs)
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: tracey on December 23, 2005, 01:44:32 PM
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I am considering breeding from Holly and thought the first step would be to get the necessary health checks carried out. Can I ask the experts here what checks they would carry out as I have been told various things and if I do decide to breed from her I intend to do everything properly.
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Hi Terri
I suggest you read the cocker questions section on the forum. There is a section titled  Should I breed from my pet bitch. That gives lots of information including relevent health tests.

Your first port of call should be Holly's breeder. If they are experienced breeders and they show they should be able to confirm that Holly conforms to the breed standard and they should be able to advise you as to a suitable stud dog. Do you show Holly?

You can find information on the optigen test at www.optigen.com. They are the only clinic that offers this test. The cost of the test has come down significantly sinse i first started optigen testing. I have just had another 2 dogs tested and the cost was £84.00 per dog ( this included a 25% discount )

Can i ask why you want to breed from Holly? If it is to keep a puppy it may be easier to go and buy another pup. Breeding a litter of puppies can be very rewarding but be warned it is not easy! Most bitches have no problems at all but some do.... including needing a c-section, some do not produce milk and the puppies need to be hand reared, and some are just bad mothers. Raising a litter is hard work, messy and expensive. Not trying to put you off, any person i know that has ever bred a litter will have had a disaster of some sort along the way so be prepared.


Tracey :)
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: Terri Carpenter on December 23, 2005, 02:02:18 PM
I am considering breeding from Holly because she is a beautiful dog (of course I am biased) and has a wonderful temperament. I have been attending ringcraft classes and she does meet the breed standard.

I am only considering it at the moment and have read alot of the discussions on this forum. I am lucky enough not to have to work and know that if I decide to go ahead it would be a full time commitment with possible  heartbreaks. I have spoken to the breeder and she is willing to give me all the help and support that I would need but I wanted to get the advice from the experts on COL as well.
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: Jane S on December 23, 2005, 02:58:05 PM
It's good that you're doing your homework :) I personally would be wary of breeding from a very small bitch. I'm sure you posted only recently that Holly is petite weighing just over 8 Kgs - that really is quite small for a Cocker (the breed standard is 13-14.5 Kgs) so she is not breed standard from a size point of view. I'm not saying these things deliberately to be negative but they are important and have to be considered. Smaller bitches can have trouble giving birth naturally, specially as novice breeders sometimes make the mistake of choosing a big stud dog to "correct" the lack of size of the mother (resulting in big puppies that have to be delivered by a C-section)

Jane
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: tracey on December 23, 2005, 02:58:07 PM
HI Terri
I am glad to hear that Holly's breeder will be supporting you :)

Tracey :)
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: sarah25 on December 23, 2005, 03:09:26 PM
Also glade the breeder is happy to help you out  :)
good luck in the decsion you make  :D
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: LoveCatz on December 23, 2005, 08:46:44 PM
I think you are very brave to even consider it. For some strange reason when we said we were getting a second puppy of a different sex people assumed we would use them to breed from.  :angry:
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: Terri Carpenter on December 24, 2005, 12:06:48 PM
I'm going to ring the breeder in the new year and arrange to take Holly down to see her and have a good discussion on whether it is good for the breed and what affects it may have on Holly.

Can anyone list the health checks that I should get carried out - I seem to be picking up conflicting information - ie hip score - I've been told by someone in London Cockers that it is not necessary to have this checked in parti colours only in solids?

And can I take this opportunity to wish all on COL a very merry christmas and a cocker filled new year! :D
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: Cayley on December 24, 2005, 01:56:23 PM
You may wish to have a KC affix, this is the word that makes it easier to tell who bred (or owns, depending on whether the affix is added to the end of the name) the dog, an affix costs £70 at first then yearly payments to keep it  :D .
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: Laurie on December 24, 2005, 04:43:38 PM
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I'm pretty sure that you can get it done in France.

A french firm called Antagene (www.antagene.com) is trying to develop the same kind of test as Optigen.
It should be available in 2006 (it was annouced for end 2005, but isolating the gene seems to be quite hard, and they're always delaying the availability day...!!!) and cost something like 50£ for a dog (75€). They're should be discounts when more dogs are tested. I hope it will be available one day, it would be easier for french/european breeders!!! ;)

Quote
What does the usual eye screening test for.......... is it the same thing, but the optigen can see further into the future???? I know the screening has to be done evry few years and the runs out, does optigen give you the answer straight away. So if you have that you don't need to screen every few years????

The main interests of this test are that you have a sure result, even on a young animal and that you can detect PRA carriers.
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: Cob-Web on December 24, 2005, 05:35:49 PM
Terri - I'm not a breeder myself - but one thing I have noticed is that breeders need to have quite a good grounding in the basic science of inheritance and genetics  ;)  
Having studied genetics years ago - I know there are some basic bits and bobs that are fairly easy to understand - the inheritance of PRA or HD for instance and how the different tests work  :)  
Optigen offers a genetic test that can tell if the dog carries the genes for the disease, whereas annual screening checks the eyes for signs of the disease, so it is theoretically possible to breed a dog that later goes on to develop PRA  :(

Colour genetics are more complicated - but there are some good books on the subject that can help  :)

It might seem a bit odd, but by understanding the genetic make up of Holly and whether she has any PRA carriers in her ancestors/what colour genes she carrys etc - you will be able to select a suitable sire which will have the best possible chance of producing healthy, good quality pups  :)

Good luck!
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: *-Nikki-* on December 24, 2005, 10:36:23 PM
Hiya Terri,
Just to echo what others have said, it is very hard work. Fair enough there are bitches which will have pups no probs and be fantastic mothers. However as Tracey has mention they can be totally the other way! As we don’t have may litters, the ones we do have, have to count and recently had bad experiences; and to be honest it’s only then when you realise!
Glad to hear that your breeder is behind you, and if you do go through with it all I’m sure there will be people on the forum here for you, if you need any help :) .
Nikki  :) x
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: grahamturner on December 26, 2005, 02:47:30 PM
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You can find information on the optigen test at www.optigen.com. They are the only clinic that offers this test. The cost of the test has come down significantly sinse i first started optigen testing. I have just had another 2 dogs tested and the cost was £84.00 per dog ( this included a 25% discount )
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who do you use tracey we have just paid £150 to have ebony tested
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: tracey on December 26, 2005, 04:03:41 PM
Hi Graham
Optigen charged £84.00, that was paticipating in a 20/20 clinic, details of these clinics are on optigen's website. Participating means you are entitled to a 20% discount. If you complete your details on line and send the paperwork with your samples you receive another 5% discount. On top of that i paid my vet to draw the blood then sent the blood by courier to New York which was £38.00. So it probably works out about the same, but still much cheaper than the £250.00 quoted earlier in  the thread :)
Perhaps we will see you tomorrow?
Tracey  :)
Title: Optigen Testing
Post by: grahamturner on December 26, 2005, 04:34:42 PM
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Perhaps we will see you tomorrow?
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cheers tracey where are you tomorrow are first show is at coventry new years day hope santa brought you what you wanted he brought barb a new set of clippers were all bald now ugh luv to mum  :P