Author Topic: working/show cross puppies  (Read 5087 times)

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Offline joanne_v

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Re: working/show cross puppies
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2008, 07:42:31 PM »
Slightly OT but are there any books/websites with info about how the working cocker developed? I'd love to know more about how they've become so varied and where the springer/field spaniel blood has come in and what lines tend to have what conformation... Have heard of Hedley Milliongton but no idea what the traditioanl worker looks like let alone how things are going now. This stuff really fascinates me!

Mum to cockers Lily, Lance and Krumble and lurchers Arwen and Lyra. Hooman sister to Pepper, 13.

Offline Tasha

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Re: working/show cross puppies
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2008, 08:07:46 PM »
lots of the older books give a good history but the basics are that spaniels was a single breed the litters were graded based on weight and height used for different purposes, colours were introduced by specific breeders and then at some point they were split with their own individual KC Breed Standards.

Does make for very interesting reading.



Offline Sarah.H

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Re: working/show cross puppies
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2008, 08:42:49 PM »
Millie is half worker half show. I managed to speak to her breeder and I got the impression she just used her friends show dog to mate to her working bitch as it was convenient.  I must say though she's a fantastic looking dog, like an athletic show or refined worker really. Lots of people I meet comment on her.

Millie

Offline JaspersMum

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Re: working/show cross puppies
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2008, 09:05:57 PM »
Jasper is often described as the "old style" cocker, much bigger than the smaller show types we usually come across. 

When you look at the pictures of the origins of the records, dogs like Obo seemed very long backed and short legged. but I think he originated from Sussex spaniel lines  :-\

I like the Peggy Grayson book on the History of Cockers.  It goes for typical £45 to £50 in the antiquarian stores and ebay but I got mine from WHSmith and although I had to wait a while, I think the price similar to now £16.95 http://www.whsmith.co.uk/CatalogAndSearch/ProductDetails-A+History+of+the+Cocker+Spaniel+-9780951919101.html

Jenny - owned by Jasper, Ellie, Heidi, Louie & Charlie

Offline Helen

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Re: working/show cross puppies
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2008, 09:13:00 PM »
lots of the older books give a good history but the basics are that spaniels was a single breed the litters were graded based on weight and height used for different purposes, colours were introduced by specific breeders and then at some point they were split with their own individual KC Breed Standards.

Does make for very interesting reading.

that was the original basis.....but then along the way and even quite recently springers were introduced amongst other types of dogs.   There were and are some lines that were clearly bred into to get a larger dog and a dog with a harder hunting ability...it's debatable whether that worked.  Yes they were successful at field trial, but that was at a time where most spaniel judges were very pro springers and the cocker was out of fashion...working cockers are 'in vogue' now as you can tell from the numbers being bred.
helen & jarvis x


Offline Spaniel Girl

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Re: working/show cross puppies
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2008, 01:03:00 PM »
I'm also very interested in the history of the cocker and have many old books,my latest purchase is The Sporting Spaniel by C.A. Phillips and R. Claude Cane, first edition was published in 1906 my copy is 1924 and gives the history of all the spaniels from the 19 hundreds, it makes interesting reading on the evolution of springers and cockers from field spaniels, who look nothing like the field spaniels of today, on looking at the pictures of the very old dogs it is hard to tell the difference between them and there is a picture of a springer that looks very like a modern working cocker, there is also a picture of a black field spaniel bitch called Rona born 1889 and she looks like today's working cocker.  The one thing that Phillips mentions is that cocker's have low set ears and I've wondered were the higher set of ear in the workers originates from as the set of the ear is more like a springer.  In The new Encyclopedia of the Dog by Dr. Bruce Fogle there is a picture of a modern field spaniel which states that by the end of WW II is was almost extinct, but by 1969 the numbers had safely increased as in the 1960s, English cocker and Springer Spaniels were used to regenerate the breed, producing today's affectionate dog.

Offline Angels of Fur

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Re: working/show cross puppies
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2008, 02:52:22 PM »
I have a half show/Half Worker, My Aunty and uncle decided to have a go at breeding.
Her name is Honey, for the first few weeks after she was born we were all trying to debate how she was going to look.
She is quite small in comparison to Alfie (full worker) who is only 2 weeks older.
Honey has a very short coat like her mum (working bitch) she is also very athletic and got long legs, but a very pretty little thing, butter wouldnt melt look!
Alfie is more energetic and has such a willingness to learn, Honey is a real Lap dog, very cocker crazy but alot more laid back than Alfie!
My life is now complete.......cockers are my life

Offline emilyjw

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Re: working/show cross puppies
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2008, 02:56:21 PM »
I have a half show/Half Worker, My Aunty and uncle decided to have a go at breeding.
Her name is Honey, for the first few weeks after she was born we were all trying to debate how she was going to look.
She is quite small in comparison to Alfie (full worker) who is only 2 weeks older.
Honey has a very short coat like her mum (working bitch) she is also very athletic and got long legs, but a very pretty little thing, butter wouldnt melt look!
Alfie is more energetic and has such a willingness to learn, Honey is a real Lap dog, very cocker crazy but alot more laid back than Alfie!

Do you know why they chose to use a show stud dog? Would be interesting to know.
Emily & the Jabracken fluffies - Bracken, Hermes and Jasminex



http://www.fourpawsanimalrescue.org.uk

Offline Angels of Fur

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Re: working/show cross puppies
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2008, 04:07:48 PM »
because he is a stunner and his temperment was amazing, and it was their sons (my cousins) Show dog.
I think it was also convenient and something me and my partner agreed too.

Honey has her dads temperment, being a lap dog, but definately takes after her mum being crazy and her coat definately.

Although Honeys Ears are quite straight, and when she got them wet, then go all crimped looking!! they are not very Wavy/Curly
My life is now complete.......cockers are my life

Offline KellyS

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Re: working/show cross puppies
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2008, 05:48:04 PM »
Quote
Instilling a little of the working ability into a show dog is no bad thing after all this is a working gundog breed and showing is supposed to represent the best examples of the breed not the prettiest.

Tasha you make some really good points but I don't know a single serious breeder in show cockers that would/has used a working cocker to produce puppies for the showring :-\
Kelly & the Keladity Klan

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Offline Henshallboys

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Re: working/show cross puppies
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2008, 09:23:22 PM »

We have just been up to the Lake District walking for a couple of days (in the rain !!). We were asked several times what breed Bramble and Beri were.....and a couple of people with show cocker's were surprised they were cocker spaniels !
We have found that a lot of people with pet show cocker's don't even know that working cocker's exist.
There were a lot of Cocker's around but it is the Lowther show this weekend, its a shame we had to come home or I would have liked to go and see what "real" workers do !!!
Carole & Alan....Bramble, Beri & Holly

Offline KatieJean

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Re: working/show cross puppies
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2008, 10:15:02 PM »
I am finding this really interesting reading.We have always had show cockers, for 38 years now and have noticed the change in size. When we moved into this house 33 years ago our neighbour had a show type but he was at least twice the size, if not more than ours.

Thankyou to all for giving their time and information.