Breeding a golden bitch and chocolate roan stud

[debbie321]

I'm not getting into the debate on the ethics of breeding .................... 

I found this website (I remember seeing one that was easier to read but can't find it)

This isn't the easiest to follow but will give some idea if you know your dogs family tree http://www.felsteadgundogs.com/breedingcolour.html#The%20Inheritance%20of%20Colours%20In%20the%20Cocker  Just click on 'The Inheritance Of Colours' 

[Jane S]

.. I'm passionate about our breed I'm passionate about health temperament and quality cocker's and about rescue dogs but I feel some of you are jumping the gun ,

I don't think they are - the situation now re the numbers of litters being bred in relation to the number of good homes available is very, very different to how it was even just a year ago & anybody thinking of breeding a litter needs to know that they may well face difficulty finding suitable homes for pups, no matter how many friends have said they want a pup. I certainly am very glad that we have no litters planned for the foreseeable future!

As to the original question asked about colours of puppies, there is no way of knowing for sure without knowing the genetic makeup of each parent - you can make a guess based on the colours of the parents but there are many "ifs"and "buts" depending on which genes each parent carries. I would guess you could get blacks, blue roans, chocolate/liver but only gold/lemons if Dad also carries the gene for this colour (you can't tell this from his parents).

[Luvly]

 

Surely, if the OP has to ask the question, then she is not ready to breed though?

Maybe this would answer your question , I feel the more information people ask before breeding the better colour genetics included

i am not looking to breed yet

[KarenB]

Having read this thread and it's controversial advice I would like to share my experience with others. 5 months ago Rosie had a litter of 7 pups. The reason for letting her have a litter was to select one or two pups for show, I selected one and the remaing 6 then needed to be found suitable homes. At the age of 8 wks we had only found homes for 3. The 3 remaing pups then came down with a infection which cost £650 to treat. 2 pups left at 12 wks of age and the last pup only went 4 wks ago at the age of 4 months. I found the demands of raising a litter totally exhausting and demanding. A experience I would not undertake again lightly. If in the future I decided to have another dog I would be inclined at this point to buy in rather than breed myself. I was lucky to have a mentor to help and advise with this litter, however I would advise anyone new to breeding to consider the full implications needed before embarking on breeding.

[Cob-Web]

Surely, if the OP has to ask the question, then she is not ready to breed though?

Maybe this would answer your question , I feel the more information people ask before breeding the better colour genetics included

i am not looking to breed yet

If a final decision about breeding the family pets has not been made, why are children of the family asking what colour the puppies will be? 


Perhaps I'm a cynic - but there have been *hypothetical* posts like this before (here and elsewhere); when if fact the deed has already been done and the bitch is already in pup 

[lisalh]

If a final decision about breeding the family pets has not been made, why are children of the family asking what colour the puppies will be? 


Perhaps I'm a cynic - but there have been *hypothetical* posts like this before (here and elsewhere); when if fact the deed has already been done and the bitch is already in pup 

*hypothetical* posts or not previously- surely everyone deserves to have the freedom to ask questions on an open forum such as this without having to fear the unreasonable (IMO sorry) backlash! They have stated they are not ready or even decided to breed and asked a fairly innocent question re genetics and colour!

Children are naturally inquisitive and I am sure that the mere mention of the chance of puppies will have thrown up more than just the questions of colour (my neighbours kids have asked me what colour puppies Fred would have if he becomes a Dad and we have no plans for breeding from him!)

I hope the OP gets the answer she was looking for and I am sorry I cannot help.

[Cob-Web]

surely everyone deserves to have the freedom to ask questions on an open forum such as this without having to fear the unreasonable (IMO sorry) backlash! They have stated they are not ready or even decided to breed and asked a fairly innocent question re genetics and colour!

Where is the unreasonable backlash ?
The replies have been statements of fact - there are whole litters of working cocker spaniel puppies being handed over to rescue because they can't be sold, and responsible breeders with extensive experience have stated that they are glad that they are not planning litters in the foreseeable future.....the OP'er needs to know things like that in order to make an informed decision about whether or not to breed, and it makes the "what colour would the puppies be?" question a bit a bit premature (and irrelevant), doesn't it?

The origional question posted has been addressed - although there isn't a simple answer......and it is surely in the best interest of the OP'er that they are made aware of other issues that should be considered before making their decision about breeding? 

[lisalh]

Rachel-It is more the general 'tone ' of all the replies (which can be tricky on a forum) but the original question was re colour not asking for a discussion on wether or not to breed at the moment(if ever). As these threads go off topic it is very easy for a 'backlash' effect to begin and although statements of facts there are often better ways of phrasing them and assuming that the pups are already on the way as has *hypothetically* happened in the past has no bearing on the OP's original post. Should the OP decide to look further into the possibility of breeding is that not then the time to point out the problems in more depth rather than in answer to a general question on colour which I had 'originally' found interesting as it is something that I have wondered in the past!

Apologies to the OP for hi-jacking the thread.

[Helen]

Rachel-It is more the general 'tone ' of all the replies (which can be tricky on a forum) but the original question was re colour not asking for a discussion on wether or not to breed at the moment(if ever). As these threads go off topic it is very easy for a 'backlash' effect to begin and although statements of facts there are often better ways of phrasing them and assuming that the pups are already on the way as has *hypothetically* happened in the past has no bearing on the OP's original post. Should the OP decide to look further into the possibility of breeding is that not then the time to point out the problems in more depth rather than in answer to a general question on colour which I had 'originally' found interesting as it is something that I have wondered in the past!

Apologies to the OP for hi-jacking the thread

Mod has already responded Lisa - our posts are blunt but not out of order as you're suggesting.

.. I'm passionate about our breed I'm passionate about health temperament and quality cocker's and about rescue dogs but I feel some of you are jumping the gun ,

I don't think they are - the situation now re the numbers of litters being bred in relation to the number of good homes available is very, very different to how it was even just a year ago & anybody thinking of breeding a litter needs to know that they may well face difficulty finding suitable homes for pups, no matter how many friends have said they want a pup. I certainly am very glad that we have no litters planned for the foreseeable future!

As to the original question asked about colours of puppies, there is no way of knowing for sure without knowing the genetic makeup of each parent - you can make a guess based on the colours of the parents but there are many "ifs"and "buts" depending on which genes each parent carries. I would guess you could get blacks, blue roans, chocolate/liver but only gold/lemons if Dad also carries the gene for this colour (you can't tell this from his parents).

[Colin]

I don't see any problem with the replies on this thread, on the contrary I think people have given the OP ( and anyone else who is considering breeding) some useful food for thought - as you'd expect on a forum that promotes responsible breeding. Can we return to the topic in hand now and leave the moderating of the board to the moderators please. Thanks.

[nicolatong]

I have to say that i am totally dissappointed with the forum, i asked a simple question, and do not expect to be having to explain my self or my decision to breed/not to breed to complete strangers who know nothing about me!!!  What i find most annoying is the comments about my children asking questions!!!!! Have some people got  nothing better to do than force their unwanted, negative comments on innocent dog owners like my family!!!  We are completly commited to the health and well being of our dogs!!!  While i appreciate I asked the question and therfore should expect some form of reply i never dreamt for one minute that there would be soo much negative, accusing and patronising responses from a simple question about the colour of puppies!!!!!! I am sure those of you who read this now who think i am over reacting will want to tell me so but please, dont waste your time sending any more negative messages.....i really cant be bothered entertaining yoour small minds!!!!  Thank you to all of you who actually tried to answer the question asked instead of jumping on their high horse and lecturing me on something i havent even decided to do!!!!  But if i do, it will be OUR decision !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Helen]

I'm curious as to what 'health screened' and 'a genetic search' entails, perhaps the OP can tell us what tests the dogs have had?

since you're here Nicola would you mind answering my tiny minded question above? 

Many thanks 

[nicolatong]

Why.......so you can tell me I have it all wrong and patronise me further!!!!

[Cob-Web]

Why.......so you can tell me I have it all wrong and patronise me further!!!!

Not at all - I am sure that as a prospective breeder, you would welcome all and any advice on how best to avoid breeding a litter of puppies which suffer from genetically inherited conditions such as FN (which leads to suffering and early death) or PRA (which causes blindness) - as well as others, the genetics of which is as complicated as colour inheritance 

As a dog lover, surely you can understand why people consider the genetic health and wellbeing of your puppies more important than the colour they will inherit?     If you have a mentor, and are researching and peparing for the breeding of your bitch in an ethical way, then you already share the views posted here - don't you?
Prospective puppy owners who have done their research will ask all the same questions as have been asked here; they may be reading this thread in the hope they can find a breeder who "ticks all the boxes" in terms of testing, temperament and overall breeding ethics 

You have been very defensive about the advice you have been given; surely if you care about your dogs and future generations, you will consider the advice of the experienced and reputable breeders here who have taken time to give you support? 

[jann]

 I'd just like to say that as Nicola is a new member whose background we know nothing about we should not be so quick to judge her, how do we know that she doesn't have as much or more knowledge than anyone else on COL ?