Advice needed without a lecture!

[Saffi]

Hi,

Firstly I was unsure as to ask for advice on here, but now decided it is perhaps better to get advice from those "in the know", rather than those who have no idea what they are talking about! So here goes (please spare me the lectures and I am in Sweden).

My darling Saffi was 1 year old at the end of March. Then ca. 2 weeks later she started her 1st season. All new to me as I have never owned a bitch before, however I was prepared (so I thought). I have two other dogs, 1 male cocker (3.5 years old) and a castrated Springer. We plan for Saffi to have puppies later when she is past 2 years old!

Anyway here is our problem! We have managed to keep our male dog away from her etc.....until an incident last night. It was midnight and they had just been to the toilet, then came in the house and he was so quick that he managed to tie and they were like this for ca. 40mins (whilst my husband and I were taking turns, frantically re-reading info. on this situation).

We are so angry with ourselves and we felt so sorry for her as we know she is not ready for any of this etc....

The first thing I did when I woke up was to call the emergency vet to ask for advice. She informed us that there is an after pill etc (which is given 10 and 28 days after the tie ), however she told us that she has done this with her own dog and she would never do it again etc...

My questions to all of you out there (who have experience/expert knowledge etc..),

 how have you/would you deal with this situation?

 how safe is the pill?

 If she is to have the puppies how would this affect her?

 Is there some way of getting around kennel club rules regarding registration? (neither of them have had the checks as  we were waiting closer to the time of when we planned to mate her. We could rush out next week and get the checks in order hoping that they pass them, ie hipscore, eye test etc.)

 So what would you recommend we do (of course putting Saffi's health and wellbeing first)?


I will call the SKK first thing on Monday morning (they are only open Mon-Fri, like anywhere else in this country).

She is going to the vets anyway on Thursday as she has to have her yearly vaccintation.

Just for future reference, how do you all manage to keep the male away from the female when they are in season? I plan on buying some pants for them both, any other suggestions?

Please only give me advice that is going to help, I am annoyed as it is!

Thank you!

[Tattydi]

I am on a Jack Russell forum and there is a 1 year old Jack Russell who has just had 5 lovely pups with no problems !

I dont agree in giving them an after pill there must be side effects! 

Not sure how you keep them apart when they all live in the same house.


Good luck with whatever you do X

[Annette]

For future seasons I would recommend sending one of them away for the duration. However if it was me I would opt for neutering on one of them (probably the bitch).

Anyway, for now, I think I would want to know more about why your vet didn't like using the morning after pill. And unless there were very compelling reasons against it I would use it. SO much better than unwanted pups from untested dogs IMO.


However I am not at all experienced in any of this. Just my thoughts.

I honestly hope you don't get the lectures, just helpful advice.

[Saffi]

Hi, thank you for replying.

We don't like the idea of giving her the pill either and I am just praying that she isn't pregnant!

[Saffi]

For future seasons I would recommend sending one of them away for the duration. However if it was me I would opt for neutering on one of them (probably the bitch).

Anyway, for now, I think I would want to know more about why your vet didn't like using the morning after pill. And unless there were very compelling reasons against it I would use it. SO much better than unwanted pups from untested dogs IMO.


However I am not at all experienced in any of this. Just my thoughts.

I honestly hope you don't get the lectures, just helpful advice.

I will be speaking to my own vet on Monday morning as well as the SKK for advice. I think the emergency vet said that her dog was in pain when she had it and she just wouldn't do it again, so it makes me wonder.

[fifer]

I am just praying that she isn't pregnant!

40 minute tie?  Fat chance   - she will be pregnant!

OK there is no contest in my book, I'd have given her the pill and for future seasons I'd put the entire dog in boarding kennels for the duration.  

If you still intend to breed from the bitch I'd get the tests done asap on both of them.

[Helen]

I think like Fifer that she will be pregnant from the tie and you now have to weigh up the consequences of the pill vs the pregnancy.  IMHO neither are for the fainthearted, both carry severe health risks for the dog 

[michelle123]

Didnt know that there were any effects to the morning after pill BUT I am by no means an expert - I have 2 male dogs.

My mum had a chow, and she managed to escape once (a few years ago) she as picked up by the dog warden (thank goodness) and as she was at the end of her season (from memory) she was given the pill, we werent informed of any side/after effects and she was fine.  

I'd get the low down from your vet.  

Again, Mrs Ignorant here - cant you get them apart when they are 'tied', or can this injure them in some way    40 mins seems an eternity  

[Saffi]

I am just praying that she isn't pregnant!

40 minute tie?  Fat chance   - she will be pregnant!

OK there is no contest in my book, I'd have given her the pill and for future seasons I'd put the entire dog in boarding kennels for the duration.  

If you still intend to breed from the bitch I'd get the tests done asap on both of them.

I am getting the tests done asap (will be arranging that also on Monday, at this rate I will have to take the day off work just to make calls).

I do realise now that we will have to send the male dog away during her seasons.

Unless our vet advises us not to go for the pill, then that is what we are doing up until now!

[Saffi]

Didnt know that there were any effects to the morning after pill BUT I am by no means an expert - I have 2 male dogs.

My mum had a chow, and she managed to escape once (a few years ago) she as picked up by the dog warden (thank goodness) and as she was at the end of her season (from memory) she was given the pill, we werent informed of any side/after effects and she was fine.  

I'd get the low down from your vet.  

Again, Mrs Ignorant here - cant you get them apart when they are 'tied', or can this injure them in some way    40 mins seems an eternity  

My husband thought he should try to untie them, until I yelled at him and told him that he wasn't to do that. He then quickly read up on mating (again).

I can say that I was practically in tears when it happened. I was just holding her to keep her calm. As for Tyla (we have never seen him so calm), it was certainly an experience.

[Countrygirl]

Can I just ask why you have to wait 10 - 28 days after the tie to give the pill.  It seems a long time to me, surely the puppies will be formed.

[Helen]

agree with country girl - what are they intending to administer?  At the stage they are suggesting that would be abortion.

I've heard of ECP being used but that is within 72 hours of the tie taking place....

http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/estradiol-ecp/page1.aspx

...the possible side effects are listed there 

[ladylola]

I met a man out walking 2 disabled dogs. They had some sort of deformity and walked very badly. He said they were born to the mother after an accidental mating and she was given the morning after pill. She went on to give birth to these two pups. He offered to take them to save them from being put to sleep. Don't know whether this is a common occurance with the pill.

[Saffi]

Can I just ask why you have to wait 10 - 28 days after the tie to give the pill.  It seems a long time to me, surely the puppies will be formed.

Well we expected having to take her straight into the emergency vet which is quite far away, but the vet said 10 days at the earliest and 28 at the latest. It was my husband who spoke with her, as I wouldn't have been able to explain it all in Swedish:-(

[GinnyB]

Saffi, I have no advice for you but I sense from your posts that you are really shocked and upset about what has happened. I hope you manage to sort things out without any further upset.