Back Yard Breeders

[seaangler]

Well done for the post..(and as far as i am concerned ITS not a rant)...What is wrong with a back street breeder  are Peggy was...And the lady who sold us Peggy  came to are house to make sure the puppy was going to a loving home and also told us why she bred her bitch in the first place....And she also done her home work in finding the right sire for her bitch....What annoyed me is when you see bitch's that are only two years old up for adoption after having a litter of pups and getting rid of her so soon...We was thinking the same as you in the first place that we also would like to breed her..and are Peggy is some three and a haft years old now(and still a virgin)It was just at the wrong time with so Meany cocker's that can not find homes and so forth...But its still alright for breeders to carry on breeding(gets my goat)...Chris

[Ninasmum]

I'd be interested in peoples views about the lifelong commitment towards a breeding bitch.

Mark, my view on this would be the same as any puppies produced by myself, and my girls will be with me for the whole of their life's.  It wouldn't even cross my mind for them not to be, and i couldn't bear the thought of ever rehoming.   

You don't sound like a 'byb' to me.    Everyone that has ever bred obviously has to have a 1st litter, and i would just advise to find a trusted mentor that shows/judges/breeds, do loads of research, PRA/FN health test, only breed from solid temperaments, use proven, known, health tested stud dogs, and aim for breed standard.    Trust your own instincts too, because sadly sometimes things aren't what they seem and personally i have come to realise that not everyone tells the 'whole' truth.    Another crucial aspect, and the most important one (imo) is to vet the prospective homes, ask loads of questions, meet all family members pref. several times and if you have ANY doubt at all then DONT let a puppy go to that home. 

Good Luck with your new puppy too. 

[Ninasmum]

I would like to see the kennel club take much more care about encouraging responsible breeding.  

Ditto here.    I long for the day (naively) that the KC start 'policing' breeders. 

[babushka]

No one's mentioned COI's and this is VERY important! If the pedigrees are not compatable you can forget about health tests.

[mcphee]

No one's mentioned COI's and this is VERY important! If the pedigrees are not compatable you can forget about health tests.

I have a castrated dog, and if I got a bitch would have her spayed so I would never breed. But pardon my ignorance but what is a COI?

[Jane S]

I would like to see the kennel club take much more care about encouraging responsible breeding.  

Ditto here.    I long for the day (naively) that the KC start 'policing' breeders. 

But the KC is at heart a private club with no legal powers of inspection or enforcement. The only power they have would be to withold their registration services from breeders to stop them registering litters (which happens to some extent) but of course that does not stop these breeders breeding as they then just move to the commercial registries (like the DLRC) or don't register at all (you only have to look at the free ads to see that many pups being bred today are not KC registered or are registered elsewhere & it seems many buyers are happy to buy such pups).

There's no easy solution to the question of irresponsible breeding - we can try to educate and inform but in the end, if people want to breed they will and as long as buyers are willing to buy puppies from bad breeders who have no knowledge, don't health test, or offer any long term support, the trade will continue

[lindseyp]

Can I just add that, although I am a member of the kennel club & agree mostly with the work they do, I find it very hard to understand the rules on 'markings' on dogs....whether that be Cockers, Newfoundlands, Dalmatians etc etc etc ........after bringing Purdey home 5 years ago I was told by numerous people (breeders as well) that she was a mismark?? & no good for showing.......does this not exaggerate the problem of unwanted pups.& people breeding to produce 'the perfect dog'............to me each pup/dog is unique & beauty is in the eye of the beholder & couldn't that be left to judges to decide if it is acceptable or not. I fully understand the health, temperament, bone structure & overall requirements that are set for each breed but colouring isn't easy to predict with some breeds & to say a dog is no good because it has a spot/ patch in the wrong place, I find hard to understand..................I'd be totally useless at judging cos I love em all & when I've been to shows it's the ones with character aswell as beauty I would of placed    

[JohnW]

No one's mentioned COI's and this is VERY important! If the pedigrees are not compatable you can forget about health tests.

I have a castrated dog, and if I got a bitch would have her spayed so I would never breed. But pardon my ignorance but what is a COI?

Coi stands for coeffecient of inbreeding the higher the score the worse the inbreeding in your dogs pedigree and more likely prone to DNA problems. this site sort of explains it. All of mine are under 3% over 6 generations.


http://www.showdog.com/help/topic.aspx?id=74

[babushka]

Thank you John, I was just about to ask any breeders on here if they would like to explain what the COI % is.

[Jane S]

Can I just add that, although I am a member of the kennel club & agree mostly with the work they do, I find it very hard to understand the rules on 'markings' on dogs....whether that be Cockers, Newfoundlands, Dalmatians etc etc etc ........after bringing Purdey home 5 years ago I was told by numerous people (breeders as well) that she was a mismark?? & no good for showing.......does this not exaggerate the problem of unwanted pups.& people breeding to produce 'the perfect dog'............to me each pup/dog is unique & beauty is in the eye of the beholder & couldn't that be left to judges to decide if it is acceptable or not. I fully understand the health, temperament, bone structure & overall requirements that are set for each breed but colouring isn't easy to predict with some breeds & to say a dog is no good because it has a spot/ patch in the wrong place, I find hard to understand..................I'd be totally useless at judging cos I love em all & when I've been to shows it's the ones with character aswell as beauty I would of placed    

The Cocker Spaniel breed standard says nothing about markings for particolour Cockers so anything you have heard from other people is really down to their own preferences and can't really be blamed on the KC in this case (discussion about other breeds is probably best left for another thread ) I don't think the question of markings really has much effect on breeding practices in Cockers except for the smallish percentage of breeders who breed purely for the show ring (and there are really not that many compared to the numbers of breeders breeding for other purposes such as the pet market, working, etc) It would be interesting to actually look at the litter registrations for a period and analyse which type of breeders were producing the most litters & puppies - I'd suspect that show breeders (breeders who actually show) are in a distinct minority now.

[lindseyp]

thankyou Jane .....that's why I enjoy COL so much................I learn something new each time I log on 

[Mrs K]

Interesting thread. I think as with any term, BYB covers such a wide spectrum of people that it becomes almost meaningless to me.
Some so called BYBs have more love and care for their dogs than 'commercial' breeders. I am confused as to when I first time BYB who health tests and cares for their dog and pups becomes a qualified breeder 
I have seen so many times breeding dogs being 'retired' to new homes and not by puppy farmers that makes me more skeptical about those breeders motives too 
I have a rescue but when I was looking for a puppy I wanted a health tested, home produced pup from sound tempered parents. I am sure some of the people I would have looked at might have been termed a BYB but surely that is better than a non health tested commercially bred pup, or one only bred for show and discarded when 'not up to scratch' 
I confess to being completely confused as the difference between one end of the BYB spectrum (the good end) and the 'good breeders' 
I'm not being controversial, I really genuinelly don't know the difference.
As for those dedicated breeders that health test their dogs and pups, rear them lovingly, give a lifetime of support and keep their ex mummies til they go to the bridge I think you are  and I am in no way talking about you in this. Nor equally am I condoning those 'obvious' BYB that think it would be nice for their bitch to have a litter with their friends dog etc and do no research or health testing, or worse still have a bad tempered bitch and think it might calm them down and breed from them  I hope I'm making myself clear 
It's that blurred area in between I get confused about 
Thanks to those who are sofull of knowledge for informing us on a regular basis. I too love this site because I learn so much

[Nicola]

Some so called BYBs have more love and care for their dogs than 'commercial' breeders. I am confused as to when I first time BYB who health tests and cares for their dog and pups becomes a qualified breeder  

I don't think anyone would say that most commercial breeders are any better than your average BYB and some are probably worse. There's not really such a thing as a 'qualified' breeder but I would say that someone becomes a 'good' breeder, as opposed to a BYB, when they have in-depth knowledge of and interest in their breed and they breed from the best quality, most true to type, sound in health and temperament examples of the breed they can find - not just a nice pet as let's face it, few of us are objective when we look at our own dogs - and they have a clear aim in that breeding i.e. a long-term aim to produce better dogs and improve on what they've got with the overall welfare and future of the breed in mind rather than just doing it for the sake of producing some cute puppies to be sold as pets in an already saturated market or because mummy dog is so sweet she 'has to have' babies.

[mark1]

I may be not too bright but I still can't see why a 'reputable' breeder produces puppies and it's ok and I (a byb) have puppies and it's not. What is the motivation for breeding and what makes it acceptable? What is improving the breed?
I wanted to breed my pet bitch to produce a dog for me and the reamaining litter for pets. I researched health issues, I vet checked twice(health and breeding condition), I looked at both pedigrees and was happy with COI, I picked a stud that had fantastic temperment, I would have vetted prospective owners with a microscope, I would have happily taken back any pups that wouldn't settle/had issues (and given those owners the sell on fee, because there always is one)I would have spent whatever it cost to make sure the litter was raised as well as it could be. Is my motivation for producing a litter wrong?
As an aside I have never been 'vetted' by a breeder and always bought from KC registered breeders. I think its sometimes different what people say and what they do.

[Cayley]

The thing that allows byb's to continue is lack of research before buying a puppy as there are obvious warning signs, whether people act on them is another thing  .