Our show Cocker has working dog in her pedigree

[Sarah.H]

Charlie has working dogs in his pedigree too, traced back to commercial breeders who I would have thought did it for colour (he's blue roan and tan). He looks different to other show types and his coat is a lot thinner, he's also quite laid back  .

[DTrubs]

I own two brothers who were sold to us as show types. When we looked at their 5 gen pedigree, we too found that a quarter of their pedigree was working. Now people are surprised when we say they are related. One is a blue roan show pup and the other has quite obviously inherited all the working genes and is a liver roan working cocker. It's weird! 

[Jane S]

To become a F.T. Ch, a dog has to be very biddable and have brains so to me that is a desirable trait to inherit.

But many pet owners would not necessarily want a pet Cocker with the drive & stamina of a FT bred dog - it's horses for courses and if a pet puppy buyer has decided that a show-type dog would suit them best, it can matter quite a lot if that puppy turns out to be not what they thought they were getting.

[ginnygirl]

Ginny is a working cocker; are shows less 'mad' ?

[LinzHenz]

Ginny is a working cocker; are shows less 'mad' ?

mad in a different way i think!!

i have always wondered whether there is some working in henry - is muzzle is more angular than a lot of show types, but then he's def got the show ears and hair. if they are workers then they werent FT Ch grade!!

[Helen]

To become a F.T. Ch, a dog has to be very biddable and have brains so to me that is a desirable trait to inherit.

actually that is true of most working cockers - to be a FT CH takes much more than that, and the dog must be incredibly driven to achieve that level, and they can easily turn a lack of stimulation into frustration.  That is why I don't think a dog with field trial potential makes a good pet to a non-working home.

Most 'average' working cockers will adapt well to a pet environment but a field trial dog needs the stimulation and environment of the field.

I think the OP was more concerned as he hasn't quite got what he was told he had, not that he'll love his pup any less - but when you're sold a show cocker you expect it to be just that (and when I'm sold a working cocker I would expect to be exactly what it says on the tin too).

[JaspersMum]

Ginny is a working cocker; are shows less 'mad' ?

mad in a different way i think!!

i have always wondered whether there is some working in henry - is muzzle is more angular than a lot of show types, but then he's def got the show ears and hair. if they are workers then they werent FT Ch grade!!

Louie has a very "strong" muzzle but looking back at his ancestors, it's every bit the head of the show side of his lines - he's just like his grandad,  He has a slightly lighter coat of the working lines and genetically tuned to want to work the ground far more than the other three, he has to run EVERYWHERE when we're out and doesn't have an off button in the woods.  However he's probably the quietest one at home.  He is 1/4 worker

[mark1]

To become a F.T. Ch, a dog has to be very biddable and have brains so to me that is a desirable trait to inherit.

actually that is true of most working cockers - to be a FT CH takes much more than that, and the dog must be incredibly driven to achieve that level, and they can easily turn a lack of stimulation into frustration.  That is why I don't think a dog with field trial potential makes a good pet to a non-working home.

Most 'average' working cockers will adapt well to a pet environment but a field trial dog needs the stimulation and environment of the field.

I think the OP was more concerned as he hasn't quite got what he was told he had, not that he'll love his pup any less - but when you're sold a show cocker you expect it to be just that (and when I'm sold a working cocker I would expect to be exactly what it says on the tin too).

That is exactly what I mean. Poppy is ours now forever come what may but I do feel the breeder was less than honest with us as we are finding more working types in the fathers side and I can't believe that they didn't know that, I'm hardly Sherlock Holmes. It's interesting that a litter they have online shows the pedigree but has ommitted the FT.CH from it 
I also have nothing at all against working cockers but decided a show type suited us better. It wouldn't have been so bad if they had fessed up when we asked the question but they emailed back to say Poppy is a 'pure' show cocker

[Helen]

I agree - it's not that the pup is a show/working cross but omitting mentioning that in my eyes is a little dishonest 

[Jane S]

I agree - it's not that the pup is a show/working cross but omitting mentioning that in my eyes is a little dishonest 

Absolutely & if it's the litter I've seen advertised on a site I use, then both parents look to be half show/half working & I'm sure the breeder cannot have been unaware of this...

[supergirl]

It is a shame that the breeder wasn't up front regarding the litter pedigree.

It is interesting though - when does a dog become pure show cocker - how many generations must be pure before they can be called a pure show cocker.  For my two the FTCH is 4 generations back.  I know that labradors (black) have Gordon Setters crossed into their lines many generations ago (very long time ago) and on very rare occassions you can find a black labs with tan eyebrows.

Both Roly & Misha's GGG grandparent on their dad's side is a FTCH, though they are both show cockers in looks -- best of both worlds really for me, both have cracking personalities and not any health problems, both very robust and have been very good to train (I'm biaised I know ).  I got them both as pets and for agility and my main concern was that they were strong and healthy.  I met both mum & dad for both dogs who were also lovely dogs, very friendly and very sweet and all the parents were health tested.  Since I wasn't going to be going into the world of showing the FTCH hasn't mattered to me and the dogs have turned out great - I would go back to the same breeder in a minute if I was after a puppy.

[emilyjw]

When we got Brackens 5 generation pedigree we realised she had a couple of FTCH's in their as well. Her coat was always very fine until she was spayed and it has now filled out a bit more. SHe is also a completely lazy little so and so and is happy sleeping in her basket rather than running around like a loon. When we go out she will always stay closer and run less than our cross-breed so I don't think she got any of the working drive from those relatives.

I had a discussion via email recently with her breeder and when I mentioned her being part working cocker she told me she wasn't, when i politely asked what FTCH meant she hasn't responded since    Again bracken is a liver roan from a commercial breeder and I'm sure the cross of working and show cockers was probably done for colour...

[Jane S]

So when does a dog become pure show cocker - how many generations must be pure before they can be called a pure show cocker.  

Not sure there's a definite answer to this if you're looking for someone to tell you it's x number of generations We can all trace our dog's pedigrees back to the orginal Cockers eventually whether our dogs are show or working type but I suppose you'd have to say the divide started back in the 1950's or thereabouts so we're talking about many generations of pedigrees which can be said to be either one type or the other. The point is that the two types have some differing characteristics and mixing the two can be a lottery as to which characteristics get passed on to the resulting puppies - you might get pups which look more show-type than working but may have stronger working/hunting instincts than the new owners might have been expecting or know how to handle. Fair enough if the puppy buyers are told about their puppy's ancestry up front but not so fair if they are not told or worse lied to.

[Crazy Cocker Gang]

I have to admit I would of been furious if I bought a working cocker and it turned out to be a show x working 

I bought dogs to work and while im not saying a show cocker can not be trained to a high level or be driven/energetic there is a reason we have two types 

Same if I wanted a show and got a show x working.

Because they are both "cocker spaniels" and only different strains is there no comeback under the trade descriptions act 

Because if there was I was be complaining, might make breeders who dont know/dont care about the difference and mixing the two strains without being honest about it through ignorance or lies think twice 

[Nicola]

I have to admit I would of been furious if I bought a working cocker and it turned out to be a show x working 

Ditto but there is also a big element of caveat emptor here too, I wouldn't buy a puppy without having thoroughly examined its pedigree first, the pedigree/lines are the basis of my decision to even go and view a litter or a puppy because I want to know what I'm getting. I know exact pedigree lines don't matter to everyone but I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to know exactly what makes up a puppy they are thinking about buying and if buyers were more demanding in this way it would give breeders a lot less room for being ignorant or dishonest about what they are producing.