Our show Cocker has working dog in her pedigree

[Helen]

I have to admit I would of been furious if I bought a working cocker and it turned out to be a show x working 

Ditto but there is also a big element of caveat emptor here too, I wouldn't buy a puppy without having thoroughly examined its pedigree first, the pedigree/lines are the basis of my decision to even go and view a litter or a puppy because I want to know what I'm getting. I know exact pedigree lines don't matter to everyone but I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to know exactly what makes up a puppy they are thinking about buying and if buyers were more demanding in this way it would give breeders a lot less room for being ignorant or dishonest about what they are producing.

I agree with you here.... but I also think that if you're relatively new to cockers and the pedigree doesn't throw up a FT CH in the first few generations (but could have some working affixes that we would perhaps recognise but that may not be so obvious to non-working cocker fans) than it can be quite tricky and you do go a lot by trust which is often mistakenly misplaced 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing...and I hope that threads like this encourage people to delve a bit deeper when buying puppies 

[emilyjw]

We were shown a 3 generation pedrigree which was all show. But we knew very little when we got Bracken. Wouldn't change my little lady for the world though  We did more right with Bracken than we did with Jasmine, so hopefully if we get a puppy again we will be even more knowledgeable....

[mark1]

I agree with you here.... but I also think that if you're relatively new to cockers and the pedigree doesn't throw up a FT CH in the first few generations (but could have some working affixes that we would perhaps recognise but that may not be so obvious to non-working cocker fans) than it can be quite tricky and you do go a lot by trust which is often mistakenly misplaced  

Hindsight is a wonderful thing...and I hope that threads like this encourage people to delve a bit deeper when buying puppies  

Absolutely, most people wouldn't have a clue and if the FT CH is omitted altogether you would be even more ignorant. This does highlight the value of this forum as it is sites like this that will educate and help people. In all honesty I think most puppy buyers when contacting a breeder through the KC think it's job done.

[Nicola]

I agree with you here.... but I also think that if you're relatively new to cockers and the pedigree doesn't throw up a FT CH in the first few generations (but could have some working affixes that we would perhaps recognise but that may not be so obvious to non-working cocker fans) than it can be quite tricky and you do go a lot by trust which is often mistakenly misplaced  

Hindsight is a wonderful thing...and I hope that threads like this encourage people to delve a bit deeper when buying puppies  

Absolutely, most people wouldn't have a clue and if the FT CH is omitted altogether you would be even more ignorant. This does highlight the value of this forum as it is sites like this that will educate and help people. In all honesty I think must puppy buyers when contacting a breeder through the KC think it's job done.

That's pretty much my point - that buyer education and responsibility is equally important If buyers took a pedigree and did even a simple Google search on the lines and names they could find out an awful lot of information on the dogs. I know it can be a minefield though for people who are new to dogs as they think that they can trust all breeders when all breeders are unfortunately far from equal. This site and others like it are certainly an invaluable resource.

[Cayley]

I've often thought we could have a sticky about how to read pedigrees  .

[vixen]

As I have mentioned on previous posts, I was an 'ignorant' pet buyer.  
I knew I wanted a cocker spaniel and thought I would do it the  'right' way - I looked on the Kennel Club site and saw a list of breeders with puppies. I rang up the most local and he said they had been bred for their brains   This meant nothing to me as I only wanted a pet and I ,the ignorant one, just thought they would be beautiful and have brains.
I ended up with two working cockers when originally I had meant to have show cockers  
I think of my girls as my fortunate 'mistake' but at least the breeder didn't claim they were show (or working).
Whilst I am NOT suggesting two separate registrations for the two separate types, I do think there will continue to be confusion for some pet buyers when at the K.C. there is just one cocker spaniel.
I don't know what the answer is
Over to you, much more experienced COLers . What do you suggest?

[mark1]

Following on from my op we have now received the pedigree for Poppy. Below are names of Poppys, dads side and I 'd appreciate any knowledge those with an interest in workers have. We have done some research and it looks like a working line.

ta 


Little white dudley
Macduff Of Rayside
Amber Glow Princess
Sh Ch Stoorie Of Laighpark (we think this should read FT. CH)
Kate Of Konisber
Whitecourt Rolo
Clevedale Greenshank
Bunter Of Bruach
Brockhill Meg
Blackie Of Clevedale
Nell Of Oxenber
Wernfrwwd Adamson
White Walls soft Centre
Bryn Of Clevedale
Caper Of Clevedale

[tots]

jet has a Wernfrwwd in her pedigree 

[vixen]

Wernfrwwd in a very famous gundog kennel that have been producing very good working cockers for years.
You are right about Storie of Laighpark - he is/was a Field Trials Champion.
Clevedale is also a working line.
If you look on SkyeSue posting 'Lines', her dog has a Blackie of Clevedale too 

[Nicola]

Sh Ch Stoorie Of Laighpark (we think this should read FT. CH)
Whitecourt Rolo
Clevedale Greenshank
Bunter Of Bruach
Brockhill Meg
Blackie Of Clevedale
Wernfrwwd Adamson
White Walls soft Centre
Bryn Of Clevedale
Caper Of Clevedale

These are all working Cockers, I've removed the ones I'm not sure about. Stoorie of Laighpark was a FTCH and it's Whitecourt Rollo with 2 ls.

[mark1]

Sh Ch Stoorie Of Laighpark (we think this should read FT. CH)
Whitecourt Rolo
Clevedale Greenshank
Bunter Of Bruach
Brockhill Meg
Blackie Of Clevedale
Wernfrwwd Adamson
White Walls soft Centre
Bryn Of Clevedale
Caper Of Clevedale

These are all working Cockers, I've removed the ones I'm not sure about. Stoorie of Laighpark was a FTCH and it's Whitecourt Rollo with 2 ls.

Thanks. It seems our breeder has a problem with grammar as well as the truth 

[wrenside]

What a dishonest breeder  Especially changing the FT CH to SH CH!!  Tinkering with pedigrees like that is just not on! 

On the plus side, there's some very decent working cockers in that list, many of which have produced some very talented offspring in the field trialling and shooting world  . So your little cocker has some top quality working blood in her  (of course I'm not biased about working cockers or the lines mentioned    )

Good luck with your little'un 

Mary xxx

[mark1]

What a dishonest breeder   Especially changing the FT CH to SH CH!!   Tinkering with pedigrees like that is just not on!  

On the plus side, there's some very decent working cockers in that list, many of which have produced some very talented offspring in the field trialling and shooting world  . So your little cocker has some top quality working blood in her   (of course I'm not biased about working cockers or the lines mentioned     )

Good luck with your little'un  

Mary xxx

she is beautiful and here to stay, we really don't care about her ancestors just hurt we've been lied to as we trusted the breeder. The silly thing is that we wouldn't have cared, I'm quite proud that shes an eighth worker

[Crazy Cocker Gang]

she is beautiful and here to stay, we really don't care about her ancestors just hurt we've been lied to as we trusted the breeder. The silly thing is that we wouldn't have cared, I'm quite proud that shes an eighth worker

why, you wanted a show cocker 


as I said I would be seriously annoyed if one of mine had show in them, I wouldnt of bought a pup with any show in its breeding.

I hope now you can understand why breeders need a good knowledge of the breed, the lines they want to use, health tests required etc 

I did notice this litter is not tested for FN nor hip scored, also no mention of yearly eye tests 

[mark1]

she is beautiful and here to stay, we really don't care about her ancestors just hurt we've been lied to as we trusted the breeder. The silly thing is that we wouldn't have cared, I'm quite proud that shes an eighth worker

why, you wanted a show cocker 


as I said I would be seriously annoyed if one of mine had show in them, I wouldnt of bought a pup with any show in its breeding.

I hope now you can understand why breeders need a good knowledge of the breed, the lines they want to use, health tests required etc 

I did notice this litter is not tested for FN nor hip scored, also no mention of yearly eye tests 

To answer your question is we wanted a show type because we felt it suited our situation, nothing against working cockers but that was our choice

I think I've always understood the need for breeders to have good knowledge of the breed and I think you probably have misunderstood my previous posts

My point on this thread was simply to get some information regarding the line in our puppies pedigree not really to discuss the litter per se in an open forum as I am trying to be careful not to identify the breeder