Why do breeders Endorse?

[Christal]

Looking for a puppy and noticed on some of the KC breeders that they have endorsed the pups. 

I realise it means they can't be bred from, but why do they do it?  What happens if you want to show the pup and they do well. Do they lift the endorsment if they know it has not gone to an unscrupulous person?

[Uncon]

I have to say that I fully support this and I believe it protects the breed and the breeders. With regard to showing, I am sure someone will be along to help you out in due course.

[penfold]

My thinking on endorsements is that quite often the endorsement is made to ensure that the people don't breed without thought.  It allows the animal to mature into early promise, to ensure that it will, if bred from, will give something back to the breed, as well as allowing health tests etc to be done.   

Often breeders will lift the endorsements later if e.g the above criteria are met.   Speak to the breeders, most will explain under what, if any, circs they will lift the endorsements.

[bajoleth]

I believe that most if not all 'ethical' responsible breeders endorse. There are those who will not lift the endorsement under any circumstance which should be stated in the puppy contract. There are others that will lift the endorsement if certain criteria are met i.e reaching 2 yrs of age, having had all Health tests, being of sound temprement, having had some success at show level etc. etc.
Breeders are responsible for the pups they produce , endorsing them protects the pups, well in theory anyway because of course being endorsed for breeding means that any pups produced from an endorsed bitch or sire would not be able to be KC registered. However that doesn't stop them being bred from and pups being sold as non KC reg or registered with other non KC associations. Always stay away from non KC reg litters as they start the alarm bells ringing, if all is above board there is no reason why a litter would not be reg with the KC, though the 'breeders' come up with all sorts of lame excuses for not reg with KC.
As you appear to be looking for a pup I would advise you that those who endorse are responsible breeders If you think you may have breeding plans in the future then discuss this with the breeder who will outline their criteria for lifting any endorsements (which is easy enough to do ) Good luck in your search.

[Eve]

When breeding golden retrievers I ALWAYS PUT ENDORSEMENTS ON. The reason, I was quite happy for the new owners to possibly breed or use one of my dogs at stud providing they had carried out all the necessary health check and let me have sight of the paperwork.

That way I was able to ensure that they only bred if the bitch's hip and elbow scores were below the recommended level for breeding and the dogs again had all the relevant hip, elbow and eye tests done.

Personally, it was more about the health of my progeny than my reputation as a breeder as I had very few litters only when I wanted one for myself.

[Christal]

Thanks for your replies.

I can understand, and totally agree with, those breeders who insist on all criteria being met before lifting an endorsement. 

What I don't understand is those who won't lift endorsements under any circumstances.  Why? I'm not being awkward I just don't understand it. 

I believe that most if not all 'ethical' responsible breeders endorse. There are those who will not lift the endorsement under any circumstance which should be stated in the puppy contract.

[Neon]

Just taking a little (fairly educated) guess here.  I would suspect that the breeders who absolutely refuse to lift any endorsements really do not want their puppies bred from at any time in the future possibly because they want to keep their quality and type.  I would never criticise any breeder who does this and would respect their wish as long as I was aware of this from the very beginning.  As previously mentioned, if there is any possibility that you may wish to breed in the future, you must discuss the possibility of lifting the endorsement with the breeder before actually buying the puppy.  Personally, I am all for endorsements  - it proves the breeders are responsible and genuinely care for the breed.

[Jane S]

What I don't understand is those who won't lift endorsements under any circumstances.  Why? I'm not being awkward I just don't understand it. 

Some breeders feel quite strongly that puppies they have sold as family pets should not be bred from ie they feel there are already too many litters being bred and that family pets don't need to bred from to add to those numbers. We generally will not lift endorsements for puppies sold as pets - none of our homes have ever found this a problem as most don't want the responsibility of breeding and will usually neuter their dogs anyway.

[Christal]

What I don't understand is those who won't lift endorsements under any circumstances.  Why? I'm not being awkward I just don't understand it. 

Some breeders feel quite strongly that puppies they have sold as family pets should not be bred from ie they feel there are already too many litters being bred and that family pets don't need to bred from to add to those numbers. We generally will not lift endorsements for puppies sold as pets - none of our homes have ever found this a problem as most don't want the responsibility of breeding and will usually neuter their dogs anyway.

As I said earlier I can understand that 'pets' shouldn't be bred from.  What I don't understand is why a breeder would refuse to lift endorsements under any circumstance, ie shown and doing well, all health tests etc and even asking the breeder about sires or dams to keep the line pure.

[Neon]

Christal, I think maybe the best thing for you to do is ask a breeder that question directly and see what she/he says.  Have you found a puppy you like and has the breeder imposed endorsements?  If so, she/he will explain exactly why these endorsements are in place and why they will refuse to lift them.  Hope this helps a little bit.  Sorry I can't be specific as it is the choice of individual breeders as to why they permanently endorse.

[Jane S]

Christal, I think maybe the best thing for you to do is ask a breeder that question directly and see what she/he says.  Have you found a puppy you like and has the breeder imposed endorsements?  If so, she/he will explain exactly why these endorsements are in place and why they will refuse to lift them.  Hope this helps a little bit.  Sorry I can't be specific as it is the choice of individual breeders as to why they permanently endorse.

Absolutely, always best to ask the breeder these things as we can only speculate on the motives.

[LouiseH]

As I said earlier I can understand that 'pets' shouldn't be bred from.  What I don't understand is why a breeder would refuse to lift endorsements under any circumstance, ie shown and doing well, all health tests etc and even asking the breeder about sires or dams to keep the line pure.

My personal opinion as a breeder would be that by removing endorsements even in the "right" circumstances opens up so many possibilities of something going wrong, for example, perhaps the inexperienced owner/breeder sells a puppy out of my bitch without endorsements to a puppy farm or large breeding establishment, I certainly wouldn't want anyone breeding puppies like this to get hold of a puppy with 50% of my breeding...then there is the possibility of the breeding age bitch I have bred being passed onto another owner/breeder/puppy farm as having no endorsements she becomes quite attractive to these type of homes.......there's just too many instances where it could go wrong. I like all my puppies to be in pet homes living the life of luxury without a care in the world with people who want them as nothing else but a faithful companion. What's wrong with wanting the best for your babies? 

For what its worth, the last time I sold a bitch as a pet and lifted endorsements for this person to have "one litter"........the bitch is now 8 years old and on her 5th litter......

A very well respected breeder said something to me only this week - "People will say anything to get what they want" - and you can't trust anyone.

[karen488]

I understand a bit where experienced breeders are coming from but how and why do hobby breeders ever get started? Breeding has been something I have considered. Have been put off by many comments on here. But who does it and who is the judge here? An unscrupulous person will always find a way. It's always the honest bods that run into difficulties???

[Jane S]

I understand a bit where experienced breeders are coming from but how and why do hobby breeders ever get started?

By getting involved in an activity with their Cockers (showing/working/agility etc) and showing their interest in the breed is way more than just wanting to breed from them. In my experience, serious breeders will be happy to mentor someone like this who demonstrates a genuine interest and passion for learning than someone who just says they want a puppy and quite likes the idea of having a litter later on. Breeding should be part of a wider interest and involvement in a breed and not just an end in itself...

[PennyB]

It's always the honest bods that run into difficulties???

not really - its like lots of other things you also have to prove yourself as well in lots of other ways