CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: stuffster on April 02, 2009, 11:05:18 PM
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Alfie is 4 yrs old, is always a bit of a grouch, but seems fit and well.
Over the last few weeks, and in particular the last few days, he has been getting more and more agressive, snarling and snapping at my daughter just for walking within 1ft of him (she is 7yrs and VERY gently and loving towards him), he has been snarling at me and OH and even started guarding his food which he hasnt done before.
Poor Purdey is getting the worst of it, though - he lunges at her, snarling and snapping, everytime she is playing near her - all talk and no teeth, but she is getting really jumpy because of it.
He just seems different in himself - his eyes seem sunken, and he looks worried, if that makes sense. He almost seems depressed! Everything else seems to be working normally - toiletting, walking fine, etc.
Im planning on taking him to the vet tomorrow to see what they say. Any ideas of things I should be asking them to check for? I was thinking of asking for full bloods - Im half wondering if it might be thyroid-related, as he is still overweight despite the diet!
Any advice or suggestions would be gratefully received.
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Sorry to hear that Speph. No suggestions. He was Ok on Sunday though? x
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I wouldn't know, but to ask for thyroid seems like a good idea, and they'll run renal function, sunken eyes could be dehydration as with kidney disease or liver problems, but don't assume that, i'm no expert!
Is he seeing ok do you think? No obvious pain ? Someone who knows more than me will be better placed to answer.
X
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Yes, I would ask for full bloodwork and thyroid panel (make sure they do a T3/T4 and full panel, the simple one often comes back normal incorrectly)
sunken eyes could be dehydration as with kidney disease or liver problems,
True :-\
Let us know how you get on :D
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Over the last few weeks, and in particular the last few days, he has been getting more and more agressive, snarling and snapping at my daughter just for walking within 1ft of him (she is 7yrs and VERY gently and loving towards him), he has been snarling at me and OH and even started guarding his food which he hasnt done before.
He just seems different in himself - his eyes seem sunken, and he looks worried, if that makes sense. He almost seems depressed! Everything else seems to be working normally - toiletting, walking fine, etc.
Am I right in thinking he has been on a different diet recently (Skinners, I think?)? It *might* be linked - food can have an incredible influence on behaviour :huh:
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I would also ask for a full blood panel as well - if for some reason its low-normal then that also can be a factor (Wilfsaunty on here, I think her mum's dog was low-normal and they persuaded the vet to treat as if low thyroid and it worked).
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Am I right in thinking he has been on a different diet recently (Skinners, I think?)? It *might* be linked - food can have an incredible influence on behaviour :huh:
Good point. He has been on it a couple of months, I guess. I'll stick in an order for Arden Grange today and see if that helps.
Mary P, yes he was fine on Sunday - he seems to be okay when he is outside. It is mainly indoors he is getting grumpy.
Beebee, he does seem a bit dehydrated - his skin on his neck and back feels a bit sluggish - and he is drinking a bit more than usual.
Another thing Ive realised which might be related is that first thing in the morning he is often shivery (I assumed he had got cold overnight, so was putting his equafleece on him). He seems to get cold a lot more than Purdey. (could be a symptom of hypothyroidism or diabetes)
My OH says he feels like Alfie is in pain, from the expression on his face. We have looked in mouth, ears, rubbed every inch of him for signs of sorneness but cant find anything.
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Really sorry to here about this ,hope that you get some good advice at the vets and tha it turns out to be not too serious.
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Poor Alfie does sound like somethings bothering him - he's very lucky to have such caring owner :-*. Hope it goes well with the vet and you get some answers.
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sorry to hear hes not feeling too well , hope you find the problem and he feels better soon :-*
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Am sorry to hear about Alfie (do hope that it is just the change of food and nothing more serious). Will be keeping fingers crossed for you.
Karen, Cocker kisses & snuggles from Misha & Roly
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Got an appt for 4pm today. Our new vet is fantastic, so have high hopes! When I spoke to him just now he said it sounds like he might possibly be in pain. Fingers crossed it is as simple as a bad tooth or something treatable.
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Hope you get some answers at the vets and they can get to the bottom of the problem ;)
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Poor Alfie. :huh: Pepper and I are thinking of you both today - hope it goes well at the vets later. :luv:
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Poor Alfie! I hope all goes ok at the vets later, it doesn't sound like Alfie we know and love to get grumpy with Purdey or the kiddies. I hope whatever it is can be sorted soon. Big hugs from us xoxo
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4pm cant come fast enough - he seems to be getting worse by the minute. He just lunged at me snarling when I sat next to him on the sofa, but then settled down for a cuddle, and now he wont let OH anywhere near him, though he seems to be okay with me still. He is in his crate now, just growling to himself :'( :'(
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If your really woriied maybe phone the vet and ask if you can come in earlier?
Keeping my fingers crossed for you :-*
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Oh poor Alf, he sounds like he's having a rough time, and poor you guys too! No advice sorry, but hope the vets can get to the bottom of it for you :-*
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It wouldn't be the anal glands would it? He "cleaned his butt" on Sunday on the grass :huh:
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Oh no, poor Alfie :-\
He definitely sounds out of sorts, hope the vet can get to the bottom of the problem really quickly for you and get him sorted.
Will keep everything crossed for you :-* :-*
Hannah xxxx
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Poor boy, it must be very difficult for you to see him like this. Hoping all goes well at the vets :luv:
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Poor Alfie and poor you, that does sound worrying, I hope the vet can get to the bottom of it for you :luv:
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Poor Alfie. i don't suppose it could be anything to do with his mouth, ah just seen that you have thought of this possibility ;) anyway i do hope that the vet can sort this out quickly for the poor lad, sending Alfie gentle squidges from us :luv:
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx
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Good luck this afternoon :luv: Will be thinking of Alfie :luv:
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fingers crossed for the check up ;) keep us posted :luv:
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I hope you get a diagnosis from the vets today, or at least some idea of what may be causing Alfie's distress X
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Hope that you can get some answers from the Vets later
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I'm at the vets myself at 6.20, so thought I'd check in now to see how you go on with Alfie?
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Hope you got on ok, they really are a worry :-\
Kelly & Montyx
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oh Steff, hope alfie is ok just seen this thread, will look in later to find out what happened at vets
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Hope Alfie got on ok at the vets today :luv:
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Well, that was a complete waste of time. I had such high hopes for my new vet and guess which 4 letter word came out of his mouth (given that Alfie is a golden cocker) - you guessed it: "rage" (which he also said was excessive dominance >:D >:D )
He gave him a complete once-over and because Alfie wasnt in any obvious pain, he said it is behavioural and he is being dominant, so I should make him sleep on the floor instead of the sofa etc etc!
I got really annoyed with him and said that he has been a totally different dog in the last 2 or 3 days to how he has been before. It seems extremely unlikely to me that a dog would change its personality almost overnight! Yes, he is a grumpy old thing, but he is NOT scary or viscious. Today, I was almost scared to touch him.
The vet has given him painkillers (just to appease me, I think) so we can see if he improves on those. If he does, the vet said he will concede that he is in pain.
The other interesting thing is that Alfie has gained 1kg in 1 month, despite me cutting his food right back, which to me screams thyroid, but the vet dismissed that idea because his coat is still glossy and full!
Im so frustrated because I hoped the vet would be more open-minded and try harder to look for physiological symptoms - I kind of felt he had made up his mind it was behavioural as soon as he saw a golden cocker!
My instinct is to go straight for a second opinion elsewhere, but OH thinks we should do the painkillers for 5 days and then see what happens, so I guess thats what we will do.
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Would you like me to go and smack the vet for you?? I'm surprised that the vet didn't listen to you - his owner who knows him better than anyone >:D I would go for a 2nd opinion also - one of the vets my parents use has a cocker and loves them to pieces. If you need i can give the details to you.
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I would definately get a 2nd opinion... >:D
You can always start the painkillers in the meantime, but it would take a couple of days to get any bloodtests back (I think), so the sooner that is underway the better....
That vet obviously doesn't know his bum from his elbow... >:(
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Oh no thats not good. Vets really wind me up. You are paying them, if you want blood tests they should carry them out. You know your dog better than anybody. I would get a 2nd opinion too.
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Would you like me to go and smack the vet for you?? I'm surprised that the vet didn't listen to you - his owner who knows him better than anyone >:D I would go for a 2nd opinion also - one of the vets my parents use has a cocker and loves them to pieces. If you need i can give the details to you.
Yes please, to the smacking the vet, and the details of your parents' vet!!
The more I read about hypothyroidism, the more convinced I am. He has so many symptoms from the glazed look, the dandruff, the lethargy, huge weight gain etc. Mind you, I dont know if hypothyroidism would happen so quickly. Anyone know if it happens like that?
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Get a second opinion, and look for a new vet!! >:D Can't believe he said that, i wouldn't wait too long either.
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pm'd you the details Steff ;)
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Def 2nd opinion, we have one at our practice who is none to keen on me and my crusade with Thornits, his answer is that the dog must be knocked out under GA to have ears cleaned and thornits must be bad >:D I flatly refuse and funnily enough Thornits wins the day again.... 2nd vet didn't want to know what we do just managed to say whatever you are doing keep doing....
You know your dog - perhaps look at the food option as suggested as the starting point as this can sometimes be a major factor if something not agreeing....
Good luck and hope you get Alfie sorted
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how dare he jump to the "Rage" conclusion >:(, defo get a 2nd opinion
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Such a shame you have a numpty for a vet ::)
Def. get a 2nd opinion - if you live near me in Dorset, I'd highly recommend mine (known him for 14+years). He saw Henry and Katie today and absolutley loves them - so much so he hugs them whilst they're up on the table :D
Go with your gut instinct, and if you think it's thyroid, until you can see the next vet, look it up on the internet and see what changes you can make yourself until it's confirmed (dietary perhaps?).
Do let us know how he gets on though. Shame he can't tell you that he's not feeling quite right, bless him :luv:
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OMG bet you were fuming...you know your dog better than anyone and you know when something isn't right..i'd def get a 2nd opinion ASAP.
Hope you find out what's wrong and he gets better soon :luv:
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I would definitely go and see another vet and make sure a vet does a full blood panel - it annoys me when they just do a quick physical and say they're fine
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>:( Rage indeed! ::) I'd have wanted to tell him it's not the dog who has rage now, it's the owner who has it after that so called "exam" :005:
Definitely 2nd opinion time :shades: While coat condition is considered one of the "classic symptoms". it is not necessarily always present. Several of my Dobes were hypothyroid and had beautiful coats and no weight problems (In fact I don't remember how we came to test them :huh: ph34r :005:)
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Definitely 2nd opinion time :shades: While coat condition is considered one of the "classic symptoms". it is not necessarily always present. Several of my Dobes were hypothyroid and had beautiful coats and no weight problems (In fact I don't remember how we came to test them :huh: ph34r :005:)
You're so right- Ive been doing loads of reading and coat condition is only a symptom in about 1/3 of dogs with hypothyroidism, and some dogs even have a thickening of their coat.
This is from one website I read, and describes Alfie to a T - he seems to have waves of being snarly and snappy anyone wants to stroke him, and will growl for 5 mins to an hour, but then will suddenly start wagging his tail as if he has forgotten why he was like that.
Symptoms of hypothyroidism include major depression, unprovoked aggression, joint pain, sudden onset of seizures, anxiety, phobias, submissiveness, passivity, disorientation, moodiness, erratic temperament, hypo-attentiveness, compulsiveness, and irritability. After the episodes of aberrant behavior, a majority of these canines were reported to behave as if they were coming out of a trance-like state and seemed unaware of their previous behavior.
http://autoimmunedisease.suite101.com/article.cfm/canine_epilepsy#ixzz0BgjCYeaT
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Definitely 2nd opinion time :shades: While coat condition is considered one of the "classic symptoms". it is not necessarily always present. Several of my Dobes were hypothyroid and had beautiful coats and no weight problems (In fact I don't remember how we came to test them :huh: ph34r :005:)
You're so right- Ive been doing loads of reading and coat condition is only a symptom in about 1/3 of dogs with hypothyroidism, and some dogs even have a thickening of their coat.
This is from one website I read, and describes Alfie to a T - he seems to have waves of being snarly and snappy anyone wants to stroke him, and will growl for 5 mins to an hour, but then will suddenly start wagging his tail as if he has forgotten why he was like that.
Symptoms of hypothyroidism include major depression, unprovoked aggression, joint pain, sudden onset of seizures, anxiety, phobias, submissiveness, passivity, disorientation, moodiness, erratic temperament, hypo-attentiveness, compulsiveness, and irritability. After the episodes of aberrant behavior, a majority of these canines were reported to behave as if they were coming out of a trance-like state and seemed unaware of their previous behavior.
http://autoimmunedisease.suite101.com/article.cfm/canine_epilepsy#ixzz0BgjCYeaT
I'm so pleased you're seeking another opinion and I hope the next vet listens to you. If you have no success with the next opinion then I would seek the help of a homeopathic vet - they seem to have the full use of their ears and eyes and don't automatically leap to the 'rage' conclusion.
It's awful though - imagine how many less informed owners would have their pets PTS at that first diagnosis >:( :'( :'( :'(
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Lets us know how you go with the 2nd opinion. Hope he is feeling abit brighter today :-*
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Just caught up with this thread- I really hope you get someone who will take your concerns seriously and listen to you. The professionals need to realise that whether it is dogs or kids we know them best. We live with them 24/7 and are the people best placed to notice when there is something really wrong and our instincts tend to be right. I would agree that Rage doesn't appear over night and the weight gain and behaviour etc put together are significant symptoms. I wish you the best of luck, I know it's tough but you will get there. Different I know, but when my daughter was 3 I 'knew' there was something wrong, having burst into tears infront of the GP, we were referred and even the hospital doctor was just trying to get rid of us we felt by doing a blood test. That was until it came back- her iron stores were so low they were off the scale and then suddenly everyone stood up and took an interest. So go, with your gut instinct and try and get someone to run the right tests.
Thinking about you and Alfie :luv:
Pam
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Thanks everyone for your support in this. As Rachel and others suggested, Ive had a look at the ingredients of the food he has been on the last month or so, (Skinners) and its missing one ingredient his last one wasnt - seaweed, which contains iodine- and low iodine levels can cause thyroid problems! I feel like a detective, piecing together parts of a puzzle. (OH says Im obsessing ph34r )
Anyway, OH has insisted we wait til Monday just to see if the painkillers change anything (he's already had another funny half-hour of growling at us this morning despite being dosed up, so no change so far) then we will insist on full bloods, just to see if my instinct is right.
In the meantime we are keeping a diary of when he eats, sleeps, has painkillers etc, and how his mood changes through the day to see if there are triggers we are not seeing.
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Alfie is so lucky to have you :luv:
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Just catching up with this thread - poor Alfie - I hope that whatever is amiss with him can be identified and sorted. The vet sounds a complete and utter disgrace - a second opinion, as has been suggested is a must :huh: We have only one vet on the island, and we do agree to disagree about certain things, but he is always open to listening to concerns and asking lots of questions. Interesting about the food issue - my money is on that ;) Alfie is indeed lucky to have you and hope there is improvement soon - lots of hugs from us :luv:
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Hang in there- that sounds like a typical male response BTW, my hubby would be the same!! Is Alfie pure golden, he doesn't look solid from the pictures? I think your idea of keeping a diary is a really good one- well done, you are doing a great job.
Pam
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everything you're doing is fantastic - the diary is a brilliant idea, and your sleuthing is fab :luv: :luv: :luv:
keep strong, and you know where we all if you need us ;)
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everything you're doing is fantastic - the diary is a brilliant idea, and your sleuthing is fab :luv: :luv: :luv:
keep strong, and you know where we all if you need us ;)
Sorry, I thought I had read this thread before but now see I haven't.
Anyway, I am sorry you had such a frustrating time with stoopid vet, and agree with Livercake here!
I do also agree with your OH by the way. Waiting until Monday is a good plan IMO.
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>:D >:D >:D >:D This sort of thing makes me so angry!! People who think they know it all are far to quick to jump to the conclusion that any problem a golden cocker has is down to Rage. I used to have a Rescue golden from where I used to work and he was very aggressive in his kennel and basically he would have been pts if I hadn't rehomed him. He was not easy at first, but he soon settled in and you new how to handle him. He was extremely insecure and had developed guarding issues because of this and would react badly if you scared him or did anything to worry him, but another thing we discover was that he had very bad mouth ulcers and was in a lot of pain. Everyone was so quick to say it was rage, but I new it wasn't and everytime he reacted there was a cause and he was never unpredictable. I am glad I stuck with him, because despite his issues he was an extremely loving dog and lived to a good age. I still miss him. I know have 3 goldens babies and adore the solid colours. I would definitely get a second opinion and I really hope it's sorted out for you soon. :luv:
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Alfie is such a lucky boy having you :luv:
We have a golden cocker Bailey she too has issues,so glad you are getting another opinion
keep in touch :luv:
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Hope you manage to get to the bottom of the problem with Alfie. I don't know anything about thyroid probs, but Bens mood/temper/issues are definately not helped by any changes in diet. Most dog treats have something in them that really make him snappy and grumbly, so I just don't ever give them to him and have kept him on a food that suits him for a couple of years now and it helps.
I think you are right to be considering the change in food as a possible cause of change in behaviour.
hope Alfie is feeling better soon.
Bens mum
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Well Alfie has had a great day today. We went for an hour long walk and he let me groom him, including his feet etc, with no growling. (He was still growling at Purdey occasionally, but she is blooming annoying at times so I cant blame him, especially when she jumps on him when he has just woken up!)
I dont know if it the painkillers doing the trick, or if he is just feeling better generally.
We're not going to switch his food over til we have had his blood tested and tried a few days on the painkillers so we can eliminate things one at a time.
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Your gut instinct is something you should definitely go with - I ignored mine the other week nearly to my cost. Good luck and hope you get to the bottom of this.
I had a difference of opinion with my own vet last year but we both worked through it (helped by the vet nurse telling me to write down everything I wanted to say to my vet - I was so emotional I was in danger of saying wrong thing or just bursting into tears as I was upset/frustrated with what was happening - then he read it while I visited my cat then came down and he answered my comments/questions and we worked through a plan of action), which is how it should be and then we were both back on track and in agreement over a management plan (this is also how it should be - when things are serious some vets just launch from one diagnostic test/treatment to another without thinking of a plan of action, which may or may not end up with a referral.
You have effectively been dismissed at the 1st hurdle.
I would definitely consider getting a 2nd opinion as even though your vet may come round to your way of thinking or sort of I would find it difficult to trust someone who 1st suggests rage as a diagnosis.
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Thanks Penny.
My main hesitancy about changing vets is that a) he is a client of mine - I designed his website and he has been back for quite a few print jobs etc so I dont want to lose the work
and b) his kids go to school with mine, so I see his wife everyday.
While he mentioned rage in his diagnosis he wasnt saying thats definitely what it was - but the fact that he even considered it tells me he is already biased. He was totally convinced that it was a dominance issue, because Alfie was growling at him when he looked him straight in the eye (I recognised that as fear agression, not dominance!)
Alfie is blooming growly, but he doesnt try to dominate anyone in the house - he gets off the sofa when asked, doesnt guard food, and even the kids can send him to his bed with no fuss, and whenever Purdey challenges him for a bed or treat, he growls but gives up usually. The Alfie we saw this week was a different dog entirely, and I dont believe a dog could develop such a different personality overnight without there being a medical reason for it (especially as he has been back to normal today!).
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Symptoms of hypothyroidism include major depression, unprovoked aggression, joint pain, sudden onset of seizures, anxiety, phobias, submissiveness, passivity, disorientation, moodiness, erratic temperament, hypo-attentiveness, compulsiveness, and irritability. After the episodes of aberrant behavior, a majority of these canines were reported to behave as if they were coming out of a trance-like state and seemed unaware of their previous behavior.
http://autoimmunedisease.suite101.com/article.cfm/canine_epilepsy#ixzz0BgjCYeaT
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Snap! Would love to see a study done on thyroid levels of alleged "rage syndrome" dogs. Also think it's worth while to do a thyroid panel on any dog with behaviour problems like those above (a brief once over by a vet with no bloodwork done does not, IMO, make for an exam to rule out physical causes for behavioural issues ::)) It's amazing how many dogs are hypothyroid, but I have no idea why that is. Dietary? Genetic? Environmental? Fascinating stuff :shades:
My main hesitancy about changing vets is that a) he is a client of mine - I designed his website and he has been back for quite a few print jobs etc so I dont want to lose the work
and b) his kids go to school with mine, so I see his wife everyday.
You have a couple of choices, you can insist that he do the bloodwork you request (since you or your insurance are paying him and there is no harm to the dog) or you can quietly go to another vet for a second opinion and if you are right, you can take a copy of the bloodwork back to him at a later time--get the meds started by the new vet ;)
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My Chinese crested has thyroid problems and is on meds, but when I took him to the vet it took a lot of persuading that this could be the problem. He said it was very rare in dogs and highly unlikely. I know of a lot of dogs that I dealt with whilst working in Boarding and Rescue kennels that had thyroid problems, so I know this to be untrue. Eventually he listened and low and behold I was right. You know your dog best!!!!
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Well done you :-* :-* As everyone else says you 'know' your dog and should go with your gut instincts. I still find it surprising that vets don't know as much about dogs as we think they should, but I guess at the end of the day they are generally only trained in medicine and to treat lots of different types of animals. They rarely study behaviour too and a lot do seem to still be back with Barbera Woodhouse or up there with dear old Mr Milan ::)
Good luck with your investigations - keeping everything crossed that there is a swift conclusion to all this and poor Alfie gets back to feeling good again :-* :-*
Hannah xxx
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Thanks Penny.
My main hesitancy about changing vets is that a) he is a client of mine - I designed his website and he has been back for quite a few print jobs etc so I dont want to lose the work
and b) his kids go to school with mine, so I see his wife everyday.
Tell him how you feel though - you could always ask for a vet referral so it could be taken out of his hands then.
My main concern is he may be a little bit too blinkered to be objective so I would be worried he still wasn't doing what I wanted (some vets as I've discovered are happy to faff around with getting test after test as well when they really should be referring, and whether its down to the fact that they'd lose money or pride I don't know).
You obviously know the is something wrong with him - owners close to their dogs do see the subtle changes vets or others can't (a general vet also can't always see the subtleties of things unless they are also an expert in that area).
If you get your full blood work done and it comes back low-normal still push as there is evidence that this can produce problems in some dogs.
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He was totally convinced that it was a dominance issue, because Alfie was growling at him when he looked him straight in the eye (I recognised that as fear agression, not dominance!)
I would also question how much of a behaviourist he is as well
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Just thought I would update with what happened today.
He has been on painkillers since Friday and his mood has improved considerably. Yesterday morning, I stopped the tablets and he started getting grouchier and snappier from the evening onwards and today was snapping again.
I rang the vet who now agrees he is in pain, so he gave him a very thorough exam, but didnt find anything. Anyway he has sent off blood for a full work-up including the extra thyroid one, just to keep me happy (which is a less likely option if he is in pain) and he is back on the tablets until we can find out what is hurting.
OH and I have prodded and poked every inch of him, between each toe etc to make sure there is nothing obvious. Ah well, lets hope for some news soon.
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I'm glad he's at least come round to your way of thinking. I really hope it all gets sorted out soon.
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wish you had your answer on this - what happens if the bloods don't show anything? Is the next step full scan/x-rays?
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Yeah I guess so! Its a bit worrying. Alfie had a tiny bit of redness in his ears, but the vet said not more than you would expect for a cocker, and he gave us some drops for them, in the hope that he could have just had an earache.
In the meantime, we just have to wait and see.
At least the vet has completely discounted behavioural problems and is trying hard to find out what had caused the change in him.
The funny thing is that when Alfie is on the painkillers he seems soppier than ever before - I wonder if it is because he feels so relieved not to have the pain.
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Yeah I guess so! Its a bit worrying. Alfie had a tiny bit of redness in his ears, but the vet said not more than you would expect for a cocker, and he gave us some drops for them, in the hope that he could have just had an earache.
In the meantime, we just have to wait and see.
At least the vet has completely discounted behavioural problems and is trying hard to find out what had caused the change in him.
The funny thing is that when Alfie is on the painkillers he seems soppier than ever before - I wonder if it is because he feels so relieved not to have the pain.
oh bless Alfie, pleased that he's getting some respite from the pain and is back to his soppy self on them :luv:
I wonder if he has some kind of spinal/back problem that twinges?
who knows :dunno: could be anything but at least the vet has come around to your way of thinking ;)
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Poor Alfie, really hope you get to the bottom of this soon. :luv: :-* I have a soft spot for him, he always reminds me of Jarvis :lol2: :luv:
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I do hope you get to the bottom of this soon. Glad Alfie is better with the tablets :-*
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If I'm remembering right, was Alfie was a bit of a grouch with the rescue and when you first brought him home? :huh:
Perhaps his pain issues are longstanding, and may even have led to the problems in his former home that led to his rehoming? It might be worth mentioning this to the vet, so that he can take it into consideration as he tries to get to the bottom of the problem.
It is not all that unusual for a dog to go through a "honeymoon" period, during which the adjustment to their new home over-rides the dogs habitual/normal behaviour - if Alfie had learnt how to behave in a grumpy/aggressive manner in his old home (due to pain or discomfort) then he may have reverted to this behaviour now he has settled in; the pain relief may well have revealed the behaviour of a pain-free Alfie, which he may not have experienced for some time :'(
If your vet is supportive, you could ask for a referral to a chiropractor while you are waiting for the blood test results? Our vet found nothing *wrong* with Molo, but Vav (his McTimony Choripractor) discovered that his pelvis was misaligned and had been uncomfortable enough to put him off being his usual active, agile self :-\
I would also recommend Bach Flower remedies, which can be bought in most Health Food stores and are safe to use in combination with other conventional medication, in particular, Star of Bethlehem which is excellent for all rescue dogs to help them overcome the past and move on. It is excellent used alongside re-training or rehabilitation of a rescue dog, and may well help Alfie if his pain is long-standing as it will have left him worried and anxious as well as in pain :-\
I hope you get to the bottom of Alfies behaviour very soon :-*
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You could also try adding TTouch as well to the list Rachel just gave you + a good acupunture vet may be able to 'feel' how he is as well and if there are any pain tender spots
Pity you're not this way as I'd suggest taking him to the clinic I go to as she specialises in non-specific problems like this.
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Hi Rachel
Yes you are right that Alfie has always been a grouch, and it is part of the reason he was rehomed. In his foster home he became a terrible bed-guarder but then there were 15 other dogs to compete with. With us, those problems have become much less.
He has always growled when being picked up and now I dont know if that is grumpiness or if he has always been in a bit of pain. I have a feeling that he will always be a grumpy watsit, but I pray that we can cure his pain and suddenly he will be a different happy dog!
I like the idea of trying chiropractic/acupuncture/t touch etc with him, and have just found a practice near here that does all of those, plus hydrotherapy/mc timoney etc so hopefully if we see someone there, they might be able to at least send us to the right person to deal with it. I agree that acupuncturists/chiropractors etc are likely to be able to detect much more subtle problems than the vet could. (Id been told there was nothing wrong with my back by a doctor, only to be told by a chiropractor that I had 2 misplaced ribs which had been wrong for 10 or so years - 30 mins of crunching and I felt 20 years younger!)
I'll give the herbal remedies a go too. There is no harm in trying everything is there? Thanks for all the advice.
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I don't know if its any help but i understand there is someone in Framlingham who does the Bowen technique on dogs,her Email is on the ADPT website.
Really hope hes feeling better soon
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Thanks for that recommendation - she looks great:
Sally Askew
Member APDT (398), BTER.
GEOTA Cert.
C&G Cert Small Animal Nutrition.
Human & Canine Bowen Practitioner.
Essential Oil Therapist for Animals.
Whole Lifestyle Approach to Living with Dogs, Training, Health and Problem Solving.
Effects of Nutrition on Behaviour
TCM/Energy Work Teacher
Lectures, Courses, Training Classes.
Ive left a message on her answerphone. Sounds like she would have a very good holistic approach to dealing with his problems.
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Not really a recommendation as I don't know anyone personally who has used her but I had just been told she awas there .Will be interested t find out how you get on though,certainly have heard good things about the technique generally.
By the way,visited our pup this week he will be comming home on 2 May,will try to posta photo later when i have worked out how to use photobucket!
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Well, we've had the blood tests back and there is nothing conclusive! >:D His thyroid, white blood count, kidney functions, etc are all normal. The only thing was slightly raised potassium but that could be because of the age of the sample.
The vet is going to refer us to either the Animal Health Trust in newmarket or Cambridge Uni for neurological testing.
I want to go straight away to an acupuncturist or chiropractor but OH thinks we should wait a bit.
Will keep you updated. Am really upset because I was hoping to have some answers today!
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Oh what a shame you have no answers as yet, :-\ but try to think of it this way. You have now ruled that out and for that reason I think maybe it is a good idea to try one thing at a time so you can continue to rule things out and then hopefully find the cause. I really hope it's sorted for you soon. :luv:
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Sorry you're no closer to a solution :'(
I have heard amazing things about this homeopathic vet - don't know if he's anywhere close to you but I know that he has done wonders where conventional vet treatments hasn't worked and he does laser acupuncture too. He is really fantastic with animals and my friends dogs just love going to see him :luv: :luv:
http://www.homeopathicvet.co.uk/ (http://www.homeopathicvet.co.uk/)
May pay to get him or another homeopathic vet to have a look and see what their opinions are ;)
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Well, we've had the blood tests back and there is nothing conclusive! >:D His thyroid, white blood count, kidney functions, etc are all normal. The only thing was slightly raised potassium but that could be because of the age of the sample.
The vet is going to refer us to either the Animal Health Trust in newmarket or Cambridge Uni for neurological testing.
I want to go straight away to an acupuncturist or chiropractor but OH thinks we should wait a bit.
Will keep you updated. Am really upset because I was hoping to have some answers today!
I can totally sympathise with how you are feeling - you just need an answer in order to be able to get Alfie on the road to recovery
My heart goes out to you having to deal with all this and not yet finding the light at the end of the tunnel :luv: :-*
If it were me I would go and see a chiropractor before I went off for neurological testing - but that is just my personal view :shades: neurological testing would be my last port of call, I would go down all other avenues first
Have you been and seen a cocker savvy behaviourist to see if they have any suggestions to his change in behaviour? They maybe able to see things that you can't (sometimes we can't see the wood for the trees when we are soo emotionally involved) - apologies if you have been down this route already.
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Aww, sorry you didn't get the answer you wanted from the vets - must be so frustrating and upsetting. How is Alfie now?? Big hugs to you all :-*
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I'm sorry too that you're no further forward with the blood tests, but I would look at homeopathic remedies as they do wonders for humans that medical doctors can't seem to sort IMHO ;)
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Im so sorry that you have no conclusive medical reason for his behaviour :huh:
Just wanted to add my support to you all and hope you can get to the bottom of it
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Thanks guys. *Brimbeck* has put me in touch with an alternative therapist whose wife shows cockers, so he sounds ideal. I have an appt to see him on Thursday, so will let you know what happens there! Sounds v positive.