Vaccination Alternatives

[Sheryl]

Are there any alternatives to vaccination?  I continue to get Holly vaccinated even though Chloe isn't allowed.  On another site I keep coming across this nosodes idea.  I wouldn't know a nosode if it bit me on the bum.!!  Does anyone know of them?  Do they work at all?   When Chloe started with AIHA the information available was that three main things are suspected of causing it.  Genetic predisposition, stress and immunisation.  There is a strong lean now towards the vaccination theory as more and more mixed breeds are becoming victims.  I have always been pro vaccination but looking after Chloe has sure shaken my beliefs...                    

[Jo W]

Nosodes are dilutions of infectious agents used by homeopathic practitioners to treat disease.  Hundreds of dilutions would be made because homeopathy considers that the more dilute the substance, the more powerful.  Homeopathic practitioners hold that "like treats like" so a substance that causes certain symptoms in a healthy person is said to cure someone who has developed those same symptoms as a result of disease.  

For example, if a substance caused parvo like symptoms in a healthy dog - then that same substance could be used to treat a dog that actually does have parvo....  :-

I tried to find some scientific articles in veterinary journals but couldn't find any available in full but a friend of mine has looked into this quite a lot and I'll ask her for some info.                    

[Mike]

Here's a link providing some basic info to help you along the way, Sheryl

http://www.caberfeidh.com/Nosodes.htm

ps there are a few links within the article too.

As to the validity of this, afraid I can't comment - best people with sufficient knowledge are likely to be Jane and Gill, or perhaps a member who might be currently using them?                    

[Jane S]

A puppy we bred had a v bad reaction to one of his puppy jabs & as a consequence, his owner has always used the homoepathic nosodes since then (he is now nearly 7) He is a healthy, happy chappy This little article written by a vet takes quite a balanced look at the pros & cons of homeopathic nosodes v conventional vaccines:http://ukbarfclub.co.uk/nm/anmviewer.asp?a=58&z=16
You can also get info on nosodes from the homeopathic pharmacies such as Ainsworths (http://www.ainsworths.com                    

[Jo W]

Link to British Association of Homeopathic Veterinary Surgeons (includes an e-mail address)  
http://www.bahvs.com/                    

[Sheryl]

Thanks for all the info, I will be looking into it all more fully.  I don't want anyone to think I am anti vaccination because that is not the case.  However, something I read on (funnily enough) the website for Nature Diet made me stop and think.  It was basically saying that we tend to vaccinate willy nilly.  They point out that every dogs' susceptibility to vaccination is different and yet we don't take a dogs individuality into account when we vaccinate.  Interesting...                    

[*Jay*]

I too find the whole vaccination debate very interesting and must admit I'm stuck somewhere in the middle. Thankfully, none of my dogs have showed any sign of reaction though thats not to say they wont in the future. I was toying with the idea of using the nosodes last year with Brook but never actually got round to phoning the homeopathic vet. Will definitely look into it further although it is very handy having a fridge full of vaccines next to the staff room                    

[Jo W]

They point out that every dogs' susceptibility to vaccination is different and yet we don't take a dogs individuality into account when we vaccinate.  

You can request a blood test to check a dog's levels of antibodies to see if they actually require their yearly booster....                    

[Sheryl]

Yes, I believe so.  I think that is an excellent idea.  One of the theories I read of when Chloe got AIHA was that the vaccine given was just too much of a bombardment for her system.  For future reference (ie next dog) they advised staggering each part of the vaccine with, say, two weeks in between.  Do they do that here?  It is something I would do with Holly if I possibly could.                    

[Jo W]

For future reference (ie next dog) they advised staggering each part of the vaccine with, say, two weeks in between.  Do they do that here?  

I think only a local vet could answer that question - if your's won't, maybe it would be worth asking another one??  

It's difficult the vaccination thing isn't it?    On one hand you don't trust the vaccine (or the frequency) on the other, do you really want to experiment with nosodes on your own dog?  Then there's things like kennels...  If you fell ill and no-one could help with the dog, a kennel wouldn't take them unvaccinated!  I don't know...  

I think, personally, I shall vaccinate until there's clear scientific evidence that alternatives are effective because I don't rate much of the advice on the internet...                    

[Jane S]

Same here - I think we do tend to over-vaccinate in this country & the increasing incidence of auto-immune problems in dogs does worry me, but at the same time, I'm not 100% sure that the homeopathic alternative gives total protection. Having said that, we don't tend to booster our dogs every year (once they have had the initial puppy vaccinations) & our elderly dogs are not vaccinated at all any more.                    

[Jo W]

Having said that, we don't tend to booster our dogs every year (once they have had the initial puppy vaccinations) & our elderly dogs are not vaccinated at all any more.

I was wondering about this with Amber.  She'll be ten in the summer and I wonder if she needs 'doing' every year?  Do you think it makes a difference where you live i.e. country v city.  I'm just wondering if living in a city as I do, there's probably more unvaccinated stray dogs around and, therefore, the risks are greater                      

[Jane S]

Maybe it does make a difference - we live in the country & it's rare to see a stray dog wandering around here but on the other hand, I was told by my old vet that older dogs will have built up their own immunity over time (especially if they live in a town/city with a bigger concentration of dogs) & so don't need vaccinating. It's a difficult decision as most vets do push the need for annual vaccination on all dogs regardless of age, though I'm sure this is partly because an annual vet visit is a good opportunity to give a dog a check-up which is important in older dogs (not to mention the huge profit margins involved in vaccinating dogs as the cost of the vaccines is miniscule compared to the amount owners are charged!!) So there's no easy answer - you could have Amber titre tested to see if she does actually need a booster & if she doesn't, then fair enough (only disadvantage is that titre testing is not exactly inexpensive & could cost more than a booster!)                    

[Sheryl]

Its like a minefield isn't it?  I guess it seems fairly straightforward until something happens like Chloe and her AIHA and then you are left wondering if what you knew all along to be the right thing really is right.!!  I have no regrets about vaccinating her as even with her illness she has turned out to be the most amazing little dog.  Sorry, little person in a doggie suit I should say.....  Like Jane, I worry about the rise in AIHA.  My vet used to see maybe one a year, now they have at least a dozen on their books.  As Jo points out, you cannot put them in kennels so Chloe is now our mini ball and chain.!!  Even if there was a kennels that would take her, I would just fret as only Mike and I know the signs that mean she is starting with some illness or other...  We just bought a caravan and took them both everywhere.  Mind you, as soon as I opened the caravan door they were sat on the seats with that 'where to this holiday' look on their faces.                    

[Michele]

Same here - I think we do tend to over-vaccinate in this country & the increasing incidence of auto-immune problems in dogs does worry me, but at the same time, I'm not 100% sure that the homeopathic alternative gives total protection. Having said that, we don't tend to booster our dogs every year (once they have had the initial puppy vaccinations) & our elderly dogs are not vaccinated at all any more.

My older two, Meg & Georgia are no longer boostered either.

Gill may be able to comment to the contrary on this, but another frightening thought that I had heard is that all dogs receive the same quantity of vaccine regardless of size, from Chihuahua to Newfoundland.