A bit worried about Alfie

[spanielcrazy]

Symptoms of hypothyroidism include major depression, unprovoked aggression, joint pain, sudden onset of seizures, anxiety, phobias, submissiveness, passivity, disorientation, moodiness, erratic temperament, hypo-attentiveness, compulsiveness, and irritability. After the episodes of aberrant behavior, a majority of these canines were reported to behave as if they were coming out of a trance-like state and seemed unaware of their previous behavior.

http://autoimmunedisease.suite101.com/article.cfm/canine_epilepsy#ixzz0BgjCYeaT

[/quote]


Snap! Would love to see a study done on thyroid levels of alleged "rage syndrome" dogs. Also think it's worth while to do a thyroid panel on any dog with behaviour problems like those above (a brief once over by a vet with no bloodwork done does not, IMO, make for an exam to rule out physical causes for behavioural issues  ) It's amazing how many dogs are hypothyroid, but I have no idea why that is. Dietary? Genetic? Environmental?  Fascinating stuff 

My main hesitancy about changing vets is that a) he is a client of mine - I designed his website and he has been back for quite a few print jobs etc so I dont want to lose the work
and b) his kids go to school with mine, so I see his wife everyday.

You have a couple of choices, you can insist that he do the bloodwork you request (since you or your insurance are paying him and there is no harm to the dog) or you can quietly go to another vet for a second opinion and if you are right, you can take a copy of the bloodwork back to him at a later time--get the meds started by the new vet 

[6thSense]

My Chinese crested has thyroid problems and is on meds, but when I took him to the vet it took a lot of persuading that this could be the problem. He said it was very rare in dogs and highly unlikely. I know of a lot of dogs that I dealt with whilst working in Boarding and Rescue kennels that had thyroid problems, so I know this to be untrue. Eventually he listened and low and behold I was right. You know your dog best!!!!

[Hurtwood Dogs]

Well done you  As everyone else says you 'know' your dog and should go with your gut instincts. I still find it surprising that vets don't know as much about dogs as we think they should, but I guess at the end of the day they are generally only trained in medicine and to treat lots of different types of animals. They rarely study behaviour too and a lot do seem to still be back with Barbera Woodhouse or up there with dear old Mr Milan 

Good luck with your investigations - keeping everything crossed that there is a swift conclusion to all this and poor Alfie gets back to feeling good again 

Hannah xxx

[PennyB]

Thanks Penny.

My main hesitancy about changing vets is that a) he is a client of mine - I designed his website and he has been back for quite a few print jobs etc so I dont want to lose the work
and b) his kids go to school with mine, so I see his wife everyday.

Tell him how you feel though  - you could always ask for a vet referral so it could be taken out of his hands then.

My main concern is he may be a little bit too blinkered to be objective so I would be worried he still wasn't doing what I wanted (some vets as I've discovered are happy to faff around with getting test after test as well when they really should be referring, and whether its down to the fact that they'd lose money or pride I don't know).

You obviously know the is something wrong with him - owners close to their dogs do see the subtle changes vets or others can't (a general vet also can't always see the subtleties of things unless they are also an expert in that area).

If you get your full blood work done and it comes back low-normal still push as there is evidence that this can produce problems in some dogs.

[PennyB]

He was totally convinced that it was a dominance issue, because Alfie was growling at him when he looked him straight in the eye (I recognised that as fear agression, not dominance!)

I would also question how much of a behaviourist he is as well

[stuffster]

Just thought I would update with what happened today.

He has been on painkillers since Friday and his mood has improved considerably. Yesterday morning, I stopped the tablets and he started getting grouchier and snappier from the evening onwards and today was snapping again.

I rang the vet who now agrees he is in pain, so he gave him a very thorough exam, but didnt find anything. Anyway he has sent off blood for a full work-up including the extra thyroid one, just to keep me happy (which is a less likely option if he is in pain) and he is back on the tablets until we can find out what is hurting.

OH and I have prodded and poked every inch of him, between each toe etc to make sure there is nothing obvious. Ah well, lets hope for some news soon.

[6thSense]

I'm glad he's at least come round to your way of thinking. I really hope it all gets sorted out soon.

[Helen]

wish you had your answer on this - what happens if the bloods don't show anything?  Is the next step full scan/x-rays?

[stuffster]

Yeah I guess so! Its a bit worrying. Alfie had a tiny bit of redness in his ears, but the vet said not more than you would expect for a cocker, and he gave us some drops for them, in the hope that he could have just had an earache.

In the meantime, we just have to wait and see.

At least the vet has completely discounted behavioural problems and is trying hard to find out what had caused the change in him.

The funny thing is that when Alfie is on the painkillers he seems soppier than ever before - I wonder if it is because he feels so relieved not to have the pain.

[Helen]

Yeah I guess so! Its a bit worrying. Alfie had a tiny bit of redness in his ears, but the vet said not more than you would expect for a cocker, and he gave us some drops for them, in the hope that he could have just had an earache.

In the meantime, we just have to wait and see.

At least the vet has completely discounted behavioural problems and is trying hard to find out what had caused the change in him.

The funny thing is that when Alfie is on the painkillers he seems soppier than ever before - I wonder if it is because he feels so relieved not to have the pain.

oh bless Alfie, pleased that he's getting some respite from the pain and is back to his soppy self on them 

I wonder if he has some kind of spinal/back problem that twinges? 

who knows could be anything but at least the vet has come around to your way of thinking 

[Beth]

Poor Alfie, really hope you get to the bottom of this soon. I have a soft spot for him, he always reminds me of Jarvis

[cdpops]

I do hope you get to the bottom of this soon. Glad Alfie is better with the tablets

[Cob-Web]

If I'm remembering right, was Alfie was a bit of a grouch with the rescue and when you first brought him home? 

Perhaps his pain issues are longstanding, and may even have led to the problems in his former home that led to his rehoming?  It might be worth mentioning this to the vet, so that he can take it into consideration as he tries to get to the bottom of the problem.

It is not all that unusual for a dog to go through a "honeymoon" period, during which the adjustment to their new home over-rides the dogs habitual/normal behaviour - if Alfie had learnt how to behave in a grumpy/aggressive manner in his old home (due to pain or discomfort) then he may have reverted to this behaviour now he has settled in; the pain relief may well have revealed the behaviour of a pain-free Alfie, which he may not have experienced for some time 

If your vet is supportive, you could ask for a referral to a chiropractor while you are waiting for the blood test results?  Our vet found nothing *wrong* with Molo, but Vav (his McTimony Choripractor) discovered that his pelvis was misaligned and had been uncomfortable enough to put him off being his usual active, agile self 

I would also recommend Bach Flower remedies, which can be bought in most Health Food stores and are safe to use in combination with other conventional medication, in particular, Star of Bethlehem which is excellent for all rescue dogs to help them overcome the past and move on.  It is excellent used alongside re-training or rehabilitation of a rescue dog, and may well help Alfie if his pain is long-standing as it will have left him worried and anxious as well as in pain 

I hope you get to the bottom of Alfies behaviour very soon 

[PennyB]

You could also try adding TTouch as well to the list Rachel just gave you + a good acupunture vet may be able to 'feel' how he is as well and if there are any pain tender spots

Pity you're not this way as I'd suggest taking him to the clinic I go to as she specialises in non-specific problems like this.

[stuffster]

Hi Rachel

Yes you are right that Alfie has always been a grouch, and it is part of the reason he was rehomed. In his foster home he became a terrible bed-guarder but then there were 15 other dogs to compete with. With us, those problems have become much less.

He has always growled when being picked up and now I dont know if that is grumpiness or if he has always been in a bit of pain. I have a feeling that he will always be a grumpy watsit, but I pray that we can cure his pain and suddenly he will be a different happy dog!

I like the idea of trying chiropractic/acupuncture/t touch etc with him, and have just found a practice near here that does all of those, plus hydrotherapy/mc timoney etc so hopefully if we see someone there, they might be able to at least send us to the right person to deal with it. I agree that acupuncturists/chiropractors etc are likely to be able to detect much more subtle problems than the vet could. (Id been told there was nothing wrong with my back by a doctor, only to be told by a chiropractor that I had 2 misplaced ribs which had been wrong for 10 or so years - 30 mins of crunching and I felt 20 years younger!)


I'll give the herbal remedies a go too. There is no harm in trying everything is there? Thanks for all the advice.