CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: bizzylizzy on November 01, 2017, 02:32:50 PM
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Its just over a year since I took up the loose leash battle (London Girl‘s Henry‘s Loose Leash Diary) and am ashamed to realize we‘ve now got to start over! >:D
Humphrey‘s recall is pretty good and, as he never goes far away from me, most of his walks during the summer have been off lead here in the countryside and I’ve become very lax about practising lead walking. The rude awakening came on the weekend when we went away with a group of friends. We were in town so he had to be on lead for the whole 3 days :fear2: What a disaster! I feel like I‘ve been hung, drawn and quartered and am so cross with myself for letting things get this bad again.
I‘ve just baked a tray of liver cake, have rewatched all the videos this morning and armed with clicker and training lead, we‘re off into town now to take up the gauntlet!! :buttkick: but I have the feeling its going to be tougher going now! >:(
May this be a lesson to all of you just starting out - ;) - don‘t get complacent, the training‘s never over!! Now wish me luck please!!
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Good luck with your mission, who could resist mum's livercake (well me actually, but that's another story!)
Hi Ho Hi Ho it's off to town we go
with half a ton of livercake, Hi Ho Hi Ho
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Good luck, i'm sure young Humphrey will pick it up quickly. Especially with liver cake :D
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I bet it will come back very quickly, don’t worry! Hnery’s on lead so often that we’ve never lost the loose leash habit, but his recall... still non-existent. I’m working on it though, with a new training method and and will report back in a few months...
Here’s hoping Herr Humph remembers where his liver cake comes from!
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It's easier for me as I live in a urban area he has to be on lead a lot of the time. Just practice a bit each day for a few minutes maybe at the start of your walk for five or 10 minutes.
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I know what you mean! How are you getting on?
We're back using Turid Rugaas' stuff after a certain young lady started hunting on her long line....
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Its a case of one step forward, two steps back (literally!!!). I‘ve been really firm this week, have changed direction the second there‘s been the slightest tension on the lead or have stopped dead, which has resulted in him coming back to me rather than just sitting down :banana:, so I know he understands the concept, he‘s even stayed with me, albeit reluctantly ;), when we‘ve walked passed his daily first sniffing post. I really thought we were doing well and was starting to contemplate going somewhere not so familar and a bit busier but then yesterday some „thing“ must have walked the same way just before us and we had the meerkat impersonations again!! If I could plug his nostrils, I‘d have the perfect dog!!! >:(
I’ve read Turid Rugaas’ book (very interesting) and I‘ve looked at so many training videos, I‘ve got square eyes!!! :o :lol:
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Bailey will write poetry for a piece of chicken! As others have said, it’s never over. 6 months in as novice owners and LOVING every moment.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Bizzylizzy I feel your pain . Leo will have a few beautiful days, He'll stand next to me looking up every 5 yards to be told he's a good boy.. then we'll have a few days of 'I have no idea who you are and why you're talking to me but I'm going to drag you down this path'. I have found that the season has made Leo awful, all the leafs to sniff on the ground! Leo's never experienced autumn before (only just a year old) so it must be odd for him.
I've taken to being rather harsh. If he pulls on the way to our usual walking place then he dosnt have as much time off lead. If he walks nicely he gets taken off lead earlier. This has worked for me as nearing the end of the walk he now runs to me for his lead to be put back on.. I've found less freedom unless worth rewarding is the way forward for us.
Sometimes Leo just needs to be told 'you're not boss' when out and about
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Just stick at it. Keep stopping if he pulls he should eventually get the message. My dog still sometimes goes off ahead of me I just stop instantly and he comes back. I've been training him for 14 months so it will take some time and he may never get it right completely just be consistent.
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It does get better, honest!
One thing I obsevered watching others teach “heel” and then tried myself - and it worked - is to only say “heel” when your dog is in the correct position, any other position they should be chastised (“No!”) they soon realise that heel means their head by your knee!
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It does get better, honest!
One thing I obsevered watching others teach “heel” and then tried myself - and it worked - is to only say “heel” when your dog is in the correct position, any other position they should be chastised (“No!”) they soon realise that heel means their head by your knee!
Good tip that 👍
Question
Is "heel you little xxxx" an acceptable command 😁
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It does get better, honest!
One thing I obsevered watching others teach “heel” and then tried myself - and it worked - is to only say “heel” when your dog is in the correct position, any other position they should be chastised (“No!”) they soon realise that heel means their head by your knee!
Good tip that 👍
Question
Is "heel you little xxxx" an acceptable command 😁
Dog training 101: You load the cue word with meaning when the dog is at that very moment doing the thing you want. Timing is crucial. You shouldn’t use it as a cue until you would wager £1000 that they will obey. This applies to recall, heel walking, and pretty much anything.
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It does get better, honest!
One thing I obsevered watching others teach “heel” and then tried myself - and it worked - is to only say “heel” when your dog is in the correct position, any other position they should be chastised (“No!”) they soon realise that heel means their head by your knee!
Good tip that 👍
Question
Is "heel you little xxxx" an acceptable command 😁
Dog training 101: You load the cue word with meaning when the dog is at that very moment doing the thing you want. Timing is crucial. You shouldn’t use it as a cue until you would wager £1000 that they will obey. This applies to recall, heel walking, and pretty much anything.
👍
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It does get better, honest!
One thing I obsevered watching others teach “heel” and then tried myself - and it worked - is to only say “heel” when your dog is in the correct position, any other position they should be chastised (“No!”) they soon realise that heel means their head by your knee!
Good tip that 👍
Question
Is "heel you little xxxx" an acceptable command 😁
Dog training 101: You load the cue word with meaning when the dog is at that very moment doing the thing you want. Timing is crucial. You shouldn’t use it as a cue until you would wager £1000 that they will obey. This applies to recall, heel walking, and pretty much anything.
👍
Thanks all! My problem seems to lie in him differentiating between a „Training Session“ and a normal relaxed walk. His heel work and general performance on the training ground is progressing really well, he‘s focused and his working under distraction of the other dogs has improved dramatically, (We had a 15 minute lying down yesterday while the other dogs went through their paces, plus a workman making an unearthly racket a few yards away and he never flinched! :banana:) But then we just want to walk up the road or take a relaxed stroll and he‘s back to leaping all over the place. I could insist on a tight „heel“ , with but that‘s not really what I want all of the time. I‘m trying to achieve a loose walk as a natural behaviour without actually using a heel command. Does that make sense or am I being over optimistic do you think?
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Have you tried reinforcing the position by your side as a place of value all the time not just when walking? We naturally give reinforcement (treats, cuddles etc) with the dog in front facing us. Try changing that to by your side, both facing forwards. Do it as quick training sessions throughout the day, but also daily in as many interactions as possible. That’s where he needs to be when you put down his dinner, give him a biscuit, where he waits to be released at a door or to go get something he wants. Over time, it becomes a default for the dog to hang out by your side because that’s where good things happen.
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Good idea and certainly worth a try, thanks!
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Have you tried reinforcing the position by your side as a place of value all the time not just when walking? We naturally give reinforcement (treats, cuddles etc) with the dog in front facing us. Try changing that to by your side, both facing forwards. Do it as quick training sessions throughout the day, but also daily in as many interactions as possible. That’s where he needs to be when you put down his dinner, give him a biscuit, where he waits to be released at a door or to go get something he wants. Over time, it becomes a default for the dog to hang out by your side because that’s where good things happen.
That is exactly what I do.....when I remember 😁
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Have real problem with Rosie pulling, on a cliff path walk We have no idea where She thinks She is going but it is like having a demented demon on the lead, even get people jumping out of the way as We approach as She sounds like a rabid dog with the straining and panting.Will do 'good walking' but the attention span on that is a nano second.But now I have to take control of this behaviour, after months of sore shoulders, back, arms and then legs, blaming Rosie for it all I have been diagnosed with Polymyalgia( so not the dogs fault...lol) on steroids and feeling so much better but I cant have Her constantly pulling.Going to do the all day training even at home as suggested by Londongirl, following this post with interest.Any break through moments Bizzylizzy please share.
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Have real problem with Rosie pulling, on a cliff path walk We have no idea where She thinks She is going but it is like having a demented demon on the lead, even get people jumping out of the way as We approach as She sounds like a rabid dog with the straining and panting.Will do 'good walking' but the attention span on that is a nano second.But now I have to take control of this behaviour, after months of sore shoulders, back, arms and then legs, blaming Rosie for it all I have been diagnosed with Polymyalgia( so not the dogs fault...lol) on steroids and feeling so much better but I cant have Her constantly pulling.Going to do the all day training even at home as suggested by Londongirl, following this post with interest.Any break through moments Bizzylizzy please share.
I can‘t really report any major breakthroughs yet but I‘m being a LOT more consistant and concious of limiting the use of commands that are unlikely to be followed. I therefore now only say „heel“ if I want him stuck literally at my heel and I‘m strict that the position is correct, not an inch infront, behind ir at an angle. (Good advice there from Pearly!) He has to sit at my heel, I say heel once, put left foot forward and off we go. That bit is working well and he seems to need the ritual to get him focused. I don‘t repeat „heel“ again unless we either change pace or stop and start again and other than a „fine“ or „well done“, he gets no other big reward as I‘m finding if I treat or say „Good Boy“ he seems to take that as a signal that this game is now over!! I‘ve decided now not to give any command at all if I just want him to walk on a loose lead, he can wander up ahead but as soon as I see the lead‘s running short I stop or turn around, if he looks up at me and follows, then I’ve been using a clciker and treating from my left hand .This is taking longer than walking tight to heel and he‘s still very distracted but I think he‘s slightly better than a few weeks ago. For the time being, I‘m avoiding all places where there‘s too much distraction as I‘m worried about setting him up to fail again, we‘re taking each day at a time. London Girl‘s tip about keeping everything „left „is definately starting to sink in with Humphrey now and he‘s begun to automatically take up position there to have his lead and collar put on, so I‘m confident we will get there - eventually! ;) :lol2: Will keep you posted!
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Following with interest.Rosie sees being given the treat as a release from the training, but unfortunately She also expects a 'well done" or " good walking' to be promptly followed by a reward so I am obviously going to have to change that now.
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Looking back, I think I‘ve generally been too generous with the treats and am finding now that Less is More, but its all a learning process, for us aswell as the dogs! :-\
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It may not be about being too generous with the treats but about the timing. Think very carefully about what you are actually rewarding when you give a treat. Are you accidently rewarding a chain of behaviour: pull in front + stop + come to side? There’s a good chance the dog is thinking ‘I need to pull ahead to come back to get the treat’. So rather than the dog considering the treat a release from training, the motion forwards after the treat is part of the behaviour you have inadvertently trained.
Try occasionally turning and walking backwards while the dog has its head right by your leg, and fire in lots of tiny treats. That way the dog is walking forwards but being rewarded for loose leash. And giving treats when you catch your dog walking nicely beside you rather than when they have pulled forwards and come back.
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Following with interest.Rosie sees being given the treat as a release from the training, but unfortunately She also expects a 'well done" or " good walking' to be promptly followed by a reward so I am obviously going to have to change that now.
I have noticed during training certain things that a treat and or a good girl is taken as a release. Timing I think is critical.
Good post above from LG 👍
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Following with interest.Rosie sees being given the treat as a release from the training, but unfortunately She also expects a 'well done" or " good walking' to be promptly followed by a reward so I am obviously going to have to change that now.
I have noticed during training certain things that a treat and or a good girl is taken as a release. Timing I think is critical.
Good post above from LG 👍
There’s a training opportunity right there: put the dog in a control position where you don’t expect them to move until you give whatever your release word is. Then test them with other words like ‘good’ girl’ or whatever - if they move, put them back in the control position with no reward. It’s actually quite a fun game. It only takes Henry one or two repetitions before he realises he has to wait for the specific word. Reinforcing the release word will eventually generalise to ‘I don’t move just because I’ve been given a treat’ although that will take a bit longer. I usually give the treat and say the release word immediately afterwards, so Henry knows that a treat without the release word doesn’t mean he can move.