CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: Leo0106 on November 08, 2017, 06:44:13 PM
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Hi all, I popped Leo to the vets today as he has been holding up his right front paw on occasion at present. I'm completely hypervigilant when it comes to the possibility of him being injured so assumed there was no problem.. HOWEVER... when I was there, the vet checked all his legs and when he extended his right rear leg Leo REALLY told him off.. He's overexcited and mouthy anyway but this was a clear growl as if he was in pain.
The vet suggested it may be hip dysplasia and suggested that I have let him run up and down stairs too much when he was young. I quickly corrected him, telling him that Leo has never had access to stairs until 2 weeks ago when I took the stair gate off. He's put Leo on anti inflammatories for a week and then has asked to see him again.
My questions are:
Is hip dysplasia only caused by running up and down stairs whilst young?? If so it can't be dysplasia as he never climbed stairs!
What are the implications for his short term/long term health if it is dysplasia?
Should he be showing pain?
If anyone's got any info on this I would greatly appreciate it, the vets, although lovely, don't really give much explanation!
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Hmmmmm🤔 My instinct would be to get a second opinion. I don‘t know enough about HD to offer advice, my first dog, a German Shepherd, had HD, it was hereditary and gradually got worse as he got older but although he started to have trouble walking eventually, he didn‘t display any signs of pain such as you have described. A definite diagnosis, as far as I am aware, would be done with xray and the way you‘ve described it, I get the feeling the vet‘s not that sure, which is maybe why he‘s been unable to give you clear information. Maybe give the anti inflamatories a chance to work, incase its just a strained muscle but I wouldn‘t worry yourself too much about HD at this stage, at least until its been positively diagnosed.
Hope Leo‘s feeling better soon! :bigarmhug:
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Rhodri has a mild case of hip dysplasia which was diagnosed when he was about 17 months - he's now just turned two. We noticed he had an occasional limp in his back left leg so took him to the vet - he had X-rays under anaesthetic and was put on a course of tablets but the limp remained. He was referred to a specialist vet and had further X-rays. The hip dysplasia is only mild and should not cause him any issues at this stage but the vet could not determine why he still has the limp. He's not stiff at all and runs around like an idiot not showing any signs of pain so the vet advised just to keep an eye on him. We give him joint supplements daily and he's a happy little chap.
Sorry not much help but just wanted to let you know our experience. I would definitely get some X-rays done so you know exactly what you're dealing with.
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Thanks both,
Yes I did get the impression that the vet didn't know what to suggest and that dysplasia was the 'go to' diagnosis.. I'm not really sure anything is wrong.. I have always had my worries about him but as a first time puppy mummy I assume that's normal. No-one has ever suggested he walks or runs funny other than me, and our trainer is very good at picking up these things and sees Leo on a regular occurrence and never has mentioned anything.
I may push for a set of xrays to calm my nerves and rule out anything however but im sure i am just worrying over nothing.
I called my mum in a panic and he suggested maybe it being a bit of muscle strain due to the fact he's never been allowed to use the stairs regularly and within the last 2 weeks he has used them since I have taken the gate off??? Not sure what you guys think about that
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You could give him the tablets and not allow him the stairs for a couple of weeks or so, see if it calms down and then go for xrays option if it appears to be persistant?
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It would be unusual to be hip dysplasia but not out of the question. But you've not had any concerns about his back legs - only his front right, so I don't really see any cause for concern if you're not noticing unusual movement when walking or running (the 'bunny hop' run can be a sign.) It could be that Leo is just not a fan of body handling in general and chose that moment to say he was uncomfortable with what was happening. Ollie would certainly have done that when younger...tolerated a bit at the vets and then decided 'no, I've had enough of this' and indicated he wasn't happy with continued handling.
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Coincidentally, my vet said the same thing this morning -we were there about something else but as Humphrey also does the little bunny hop occasionally, I thought I‘d mention it. He said it was an indication of HD but only an xray could confirm. Humphrey doesn‘t seem bothered by it so its probably only a mild form anyway and so I‘ve decided to leave be for the time being.
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Thanks all, yes I would be shocked if it was HD... I've never seen him complain about his hind legs before, he is not particularly tolerent of prolonged handling anything so I do wonder whether he was just getting fed up..
I'm conscious of the fact I don't want to leave him with something that could potentially do him harm in the long run but also very conscious of the fact I don't really want to put him under anaesthetic again for an x-ray if he's not showing any pain. He's already been under anaesthetic twice in his short little life and I don't believe it does them any good really.
I spoke to my trainer last night who has seen HD a lot before, we are seeing her on Saturday for a scentwork day so she will observe him for me but she's seen him since he was so little and has never raised concerns either
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How old is he?
Mines 5 months now and had a injured leg at 4, still on crate rest but my vets will always put them on crate rest for 5 weeks and they have to still be lame to have a x-ray. Im confused why your vet is pushing a xray when he isn't lame etc.
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Hi aimeetess, Leo has just turned a year old,
Yes I must say, I was shocked the vet jumped straight to recommend xrays etc and I am not keen on him having them when he is not showing pain etc.
We have also been discussing this in my post in the behaviour and training section and although i don't think I can rule out all health issues at the minute I do feel any long lasting issues such as HD are a longshot. He's such a happy active lad.
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Orthopaedic work is often left to specialists anyway and the only way a vet can determine this is also with x-rays - Lady's was but then she had begun limping anyway but wasn't in pain (my vets took the x-rays then they send to a specialist who may be able to tell from x-rays or need further imaging) - in her case she was much older and had got used to it (she is quite strudy though and my vet has put her on pain meds regardless).
Am assuming you have no issues still with the intermittent limp still (which could be anything or nothing)
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Hi penny,
Yes no sign of limping now, just the odd aversion to having his rear right leg extended.
He definitely dosnt appear to be in any pain, I'd say the only cause for concern is that recently he plays up when it's time for a walk. He goes under the table when I get his harness out but once harness is on he's very excited to go
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Hi penny,
Yes no sign of limping now, just the odd aversion to having his rear right leg extended.
He definitely dosnt appear to be in any pain, I'd say the only cause for concern is that recently he plays up when it's time for a walk. He goes under the table when I get his harness out but once harness is on he's very excited to go
Humphrey always goes and lies in his bed when I get lead, harness or collar out, its strange. However, I was watching loads of loose lead training videos last week, as you know ;), one of them pointed out, that the first stage of being in control of the walk is by making the dog come to you to get his lead on, i.e. the walk is on your terms, so I‘ve started making him to come to me now and he has to sit while I get him ready. Nothing to do with your original question I know, but just thought it was an interesting point and took this opportunity to mention it.🙂
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I was going to suggest a hydro session as a good way of relaxing any pulled muscle. I'm a big fan of hydro as it really help Darwin post spinal op recovery
Hiding under the table is a good cocker game! But it could be his harness is rubbing or pinching, so maybe that's why he's not keen on it. Darwin has been known to limp / stop and lift up his paw if his harness isn't right.
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Hi all. Ever so sorry for my delay in response, it's been a mad fee weeks!
Had the behaviourist in on Tuesday afternoon, she gave me some great strategies for boundaries, manners etc and trying tonreduce his aversion to touch. She also helped me learn how to give him chance to use his natural prey instincts in a productive way which dosnt mean he uses his teeth so much. All very positive. She manipulated his hips for me and he did react BUT for 2 days we've been using a boundary mat game, and for 2 days he's put his harness on far better and I've not been nipped so much! Feeling very positive.
I went back to the vets, they still think it's hip dysplasia however I'm really not convinced and don't fancy putting him through the stress of xrays etc if he's not in pain so I've decided to see how he goes.
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Hi all. Ever so sorry for my delay in response, it's been a mad fee weeks!
Had the behaviourist in on Tuesday afternoon, she gave me some great strategies for boundaries, manners etc and trying tonreduce his aversion to touch. She also helped me learn how to give him chance to use his natural prey instincts in a productive way which dosnt mean he uses his teeth so much. All very positive. She manipulated his hips for me and he did react BUT for 2 days we've been using a boundary mat game, and for 2 days he's put his harness on far better and I've not been nipped so much! Feeling very positive.
I went back to the vets, they still think it's hip dysplasia however I'm really not convinced and don't fancy putting him through the stress of xrays etc if he's not in pain so I've decided to see how he goes.
So glad the behaviourist has been able to help and that you‘re feeling more positive about dealing with the problem. Thanks for the update! Would be interested to learn how the situation with Leo‘s hips develops, please keep us posted!
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I went back to the vets, they still think it's hip dysplasia however I'm really not convinced and don't fancy putting him through the stress of xrays etc if he's not in pain so I've decided to see how he goes.
When you say they extend his hind leg, as in they extend it right back behind him so its straight?
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Be aware though that some dogs don't show pain in the way you expect - Lady my working cocker oldie went through a lot before she showed pain (only time she has is when her hip dislocated) - one of her hips on x-ray is quite badlly diseased from arthritis and probably had been so for longer than we thought. I would reivew the situation regularly if I were you, as there may be physio remedies that could help if there was an impending issue that could be rectified (physio I see with the dogs can work on helping realign minor cases so that it doesn't ge worse)
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Hi aimeetess yes they extend it right behind him so it is straight.
And thankyou pennyb and bizzylizzy.
I am worried that he is not a dog that will show pain.. I plan on going back to the vets in no more than 6 months to revisit the situation. I know a very good physio lady so am keen to explore that aswell however she will only take vet referrals. My vets will only refer if he has a diagnosis. So will wait and see
I've worked SO HARD since tuesday, the 'boundary mat' game is proving incredible... I've had him in the kitchen with me at dinner time for the last 3 nights and he's not jumped up once! Neither has he nipped me during touch or play. (Except last night when I decided it would be a good idea to try and stop his time out time in the kitchen and he got incredibly worked up!)
I am praying this is the road to recovery.. feeling very positive
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you don't always need a diagnosis - my vet referred me for physio when he couldn't work out what was wrong with one of mine but wasn't severe enough for referral to an orthopod so he referred me to the physio as he knew she was getting good results
you can also self refer/force your vet's hand - basically speak to physio and ask them for a form for your vet to sign (our locum didn't believe in stuff like physio etc. and my own vet was on a long holiday back in Oz so clinic said we could do it another way ;) )
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Ahh thanks penny, I'll certainly look into that then!
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Well, to confirm my fears thus far... besides his beautiful behaviour the past few weeks etc.. I have observed Leo 'bunny hopping' near the end of a walk every day this week.
In addition tonight and last night he has been sleeping happily and waking up suddenly and biting or knawing at his hind legs.. gutted as I was really hoping there was nothing wrong but looks like I'll need to get some tests done..
I really don't fancy putting him under GA for an x-ray, my trainer mentioned a lady that does thermal imaging?? Does anyone have any experience of this?
Also, and this may sound like I'm pulling at straws. But I did watch another spaniel the other day who Leo was playing with, and did notice that he too bunny hopped. I didn't get chance to ask the owner about it but wondered whether anyone knows of spaniels bunny hopping regardless?
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I mentioned in my earlier post that Rhodri has mild hip dysplasia - he's had X-rays and been checked over by a specialist vet but he still has a bunny hop quite frequently.
The specialist could not find any reason for the hop and said that the hip dysplasia is so slight that at this stage it shouldn't cause him any concern.
We're just monitoring Rhodri at the moment - I am 100% sure that it doesn't bother him, he runs like a loon, is never stiff getting up and is always happy.
Hope you get to the bottom of it xx
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I mentioned in my earlier post that Rhodri has mild hip dysplasia - he's had X-rays and been checked over by a specialist vet but he still has a bunny hop quite frequently.
The specialist could not find any reason for the hop and said that the hip dysplasia is so slight that at this stage it shouldn't cause him any concern.
We're just monitoring Rhodri at the moment - I am 100% sure that it doesn't bother him, he runs like a loon, is never stiff getting up and is always happy.
Hope you get to the bottom of it xx
Just wondered if either of you have noticed its worse in the morning (as it is in Humphrey‘s case)? I have a feeling it seems more evident when he‘s been lying for a long time. Very occasionally, if he gets up to go out into the garden, there are 3 tiny steps to the lawn, he‘ll hop with both legs. Its almost as if he‘s lain on a nerve and its gone numb .......most of the time its just his right leg though
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I mentioned in my earlier post that Rhodri has mild hip dysplasia - he's had X-rays and been checked over by a specialist vet but he still has a bunny hop quite frequently.
The specialist could not find any reason for the hop and said that the hip dysplasia is so slight that at this stage it shouldn't cause him any concern.
We're just monitoring Rhodri at the moment - I am 100% sure that it doesn't bother him, he runs like a loon, is never stiff getting up and is always happy
Hope you get to the bottom of it xx
Just wondered if either of you have noticed its worse in the morning (as it is in Humphrey‘s case)? I have a feeling it seems more evident when he‘s been lying for a long time. Very occasionally, if he gets up to go out into the garden, there are 3 tiny steps to the lawn, he‘ll hop with both legs. Its almost as if he‘s lain on a nerve and its gone numb .......most of the time its just his right leg though
Rhodri occasionally hops when he's in the garden but mostly it's when he's pottering around on his long lead - short lead walking and off lead running around, there never seems to be an issue. I've never noticed it first thing in the morning and he never seems stiff or has trouble jumping up on anything.
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Yes can't say I've noticed it in the morning... he is very placid in the mornings and spends most of the time wanting to sleep. I tend to notice the bunny hop when he is off lead and has been running about for a while..
I can't say that he's in pain he's certainly never whimpered and I don't think he struggles to get up or lay down etc..
I am definitely going to get him scanned in the new year just to rule it all out but I am hoping I'm just being a worrying mum and there's nothing wrong with him
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I’ve only just caught up on this thread
My first thought is that a dog holding a front paw is sometimes an indication of a chest injury (ribs or muscle) and may well be to do with him discovering the stairs ;)
Exhibiting pain at his rear end, as you’ve already pointed out could be one of many causes. If it was HD I’m pretty sure you would see it more frequently given the apparent severity - he would also be a very grumpy boy (lip / nose licking, arched back etc) - my first dog had very severe HD.
I would suggest finding a chiropractor and having a chat with them. It is possible he’s caught a nerve in his spine that would give the symptoms you describe (Coral had an occasional limp and cramp in one rear leg which we are pretty sure was a trapped nerve - she had X-rays and in manipulating her hip joints it seems to have freed up her back/movement). At the very least they will be able to tell, from feeling his hip joints if they think this is the cause.
Hope it’s nothing more than a trapped nerve
Jayne
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Hi Jayne,
Thankyou for your reply. I feel as though I am constantly between a rock and a hard place... I know he's not the type of dog to show pain but then he also does some behaviours that make me think he is telling me he's in pain.
I struggle with the vets because their go-to is to put him under anaesthetic and investigate but I don't like the trauma that puts him through..
I also feel stupid sometimes because I have also been a little hypervigilant with his health (I justify this as he had a tumor at a very young age) but I feel like the vets look at me like I'm just being a drama queen haha.
I guess I've just got to suck it up and rule anything out with the relevant tests to put my mind at ease... it's like most things though.. notice one thing and then can't stop overthinking every movement he makes!
My mum says if I paid attention to my own health as much as I do with the dogs then I wouldn't be bedridden with flu right now :005:
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;) oh yes, I think that applies to a lot of us, - its called loving your dog, :luv:
Hope you‘re feeling better soon!