CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: bunny on July 02, 2004, 03:05:27 PM
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some say that purchasing two together is a good thing as it helps with sleeping at nights and companionship during the absence of the owner, i now find myself in that position, i can continue on with one, but the opportunity to have another is there, i am very tempted, iwould love to take two, but would appreciate advice on the issue, others say that two bond to each other rather than the owner, but has anyone ever done this in practice, rather than theory, if you have could you please share your experiences, i would really appreciate it. :?:
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Bunny- this subject comes up so many times. There different views on this - mine view fwiw is to wait until pooch number one is at least 18 months to two years old. Get them well trained and settled etc. Two puppies may be cute but fraught with problems over dominance and traniing is a nightmare - they don't pick up good habits but bad ones :?
Waiting until your current pup is a well rounded adult means pup number two will clearly know who the boss is and number one will keep pup in place. There is less risk of number one forgetting their training - allowing you to concentrate onm number two.
hth :D
PS this should have been posted in the puppies section - Mike may well move it when he can.
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Hi Bunny,
I would definately say DO NOT get two puppies together!!!!
I know a few people get two but they will tell you it is really really hard work! Also two puppies tend to bond with each other rather than with you, making it so much harder for you to train them.
I have 15 months between my two and cant tell you how hard it is and I'm home all day for both of them and just right at this moment have no time at all for myself, everything is revolving around the dogs and their training, and Blue is really good too but I dont want him to fall behind just because we have Bailey now so if I had two puppies that I had to train from scratch then I know without a doubt there is no way that I could do it! I'm not saying that you couldn't do it Bunny and if you decide to go ahead with the two then I wish you lots and lots of luck with them. :D
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I would agree totally with Pam & Maria's advice. Many good breeders will not actually let 2 puppies go to the same home or sell one to a home where there already is a v young pup. We have a FAQ article on this very subject which you might find useful: http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/forum/viewt...opic.php?t=2017 (http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2017)
Jane
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I agree, it is much better to be able to give one pup your attention and time.
Most breeders won't sell two puppies together to the same family, which tells me that they think it usually doesn't work well.
We have a very large age gap with our two, but Lottie is learning so much from Goldie. The older one does set a good example is the age gap is large enough.
Good luck with your decision.
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Unless you have unlimited time and energy, then don't get two pups together. In order to make sure they don't just bond with each other and leave you out of the equation then you'd have to make sure you spend huge amounts of time with each on their own. Its a lot of work when a lot of people can barely spend enough time with one dog.
And then no self-respecting breeder would let you take two pups anyway (not from the same one anyone).
Spend time with one pup and then get another when that one is mature enough and trained.
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In a word NO :!:
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I agree with what everyone else has said :wink:
Another reason for not getting two puppies at the same time is for your sanity :lol:
The thought of two of the little beauties ripping my hands to shreds, needing toilet training, chewing my furniture and chasing the cats sends a shiver right up my spine :lol:
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Hi There
Just to be controversial I'll add my 2 penneth :)
We got both ours a week apart....we have not had it any harder than those with one pup....in some cases its easier as they are playmates for each other.
HOWEVER - we got different breeds...2 cockers would have been a nightmare..we got a westie and a cocker and they compliment each other wonderfully :lol: typical hyper cocker with laid back chilled westie.
We also have 4 adults in our house all over 25....means plenty of training time available for each dog....Also the best spent £100 was a crate...they share and we havent had ONE sleepless night...
BUT when they start to play in the house the noise is amazing...loud, nasty and viscious sounding..but its only play!
You need loads of time...dedication and willpower for one pup...we had 4 adults with all this...and could cope with 2....some families would find it too hard...we all are pretty strict....Katina calls herself a cruel mum but we are the same...however at almost one year old our are great...only prob we have is walking on the lead...both want to be in front :lol:
Think carfefully....one pup is very hard work....2 pups can be double or more this hard work....but then you do get double the pleasure :D
Cheers
Jane, SaffiWestie and JessieCocker
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I would rather stand on hot coal than have 2 cocker pups!! :lol: :lol:
Evie is 5 months and as much as I love her she grows more mischevious by the minute ( her knickname is C.T. chocolate terror :wink: ) so I could
not cope with 2 of her!
I'm also glad of the bond I have with Molly ( my 2 and a half year old )
she really is a good little girl, very grown up and mature! And I don't think you would get that if you had 2 the same age.
Lizzy Molly and Evie
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We had Danny from a pup and he's now four. He was a nightmare from day one. He's lovely now though. We're having another in a week and I'm really nervous because I know how hard it's going to be. Obviously, it's worth it or we wouldn't do it again, but I don't think I would cope with two together. Anyway, if you want two, at least if you wait you get all the pleasure and excitment twice! :lol:
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Just to add that mine are 13 months apart in age. Still it was hard work. My eldest who was quite well trained decided that she'd forget all her training as the pup didn't have any why should she. While I am on my own I work from home and while I don't have limitless time I can organize it better than the usual 9-5 so that helped a lot with training (or should I say retraining in Ruby's case and its not that she's stupid but should I say opportunistic). I don't have personal experience myself but have friends who didn't heed this advice and now regret it (they have terriers). Rarely it can work but its more luck than anything else.
The ratio I've been quoted is that its not twice as much work but 5 times as much.
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I'll share my experience with you all;
I had 2 cocker puppies at 9 weeks of age last year (as some of you know we sadly lost one of them... our Honey Bun 2 weeks ago last Thursday :cry: )
I have mixed experiences really.......i loved having the 2 together,they played together & kept each other company but were VERY hard work.
My hubby& I can't have children :( so there are just the 2 of us so i suppose we had more time than some to spend with them.
We were very lucky in the fact that our breeder starts house training with his pups from 2 weeks(if you pay extra!!) & by the time we got them home they were almost fully trained which with 2 was a Godsend & well worth the extra money,so as you can imagine that in itself made life much easier for us.
The training classes were a challenge as our 2 just wanted to be together & caused havoc in the class :oops: but we loved every minute....not sure the trainer did though!! :wink:
Thinking about it as i'm writing.......we did it as a team & that's maybe where some would find it hard, my hubby & i both worked really hard with them & spent as much time as possible with them to make sure that they bonded with us & i can honestly say they did,as time went on they became quite independant of each other & both loved our attention more than each others,so we were lucky there!
The times that were hardest were when i was on my own at home,i did shed tears i can tell you & i do remember one day sobbing to Dave saying "why did i let you convince me to have 2 together" BUT it was only occasionally that i felt like that & i came to realise that my puppies came first & if i was finding doing housework etc difficult then i would leave it 'till later when Dave was home to help care for Honey&Harvey,when i came to accept this then life became much easier & my house much messier :wink: :lol:
Another thing to consider is the walking.......if my 1st cocker was getting too boisterous around the house i would always take him a walk around the block to use up some energy but with 2 it was a different matter,even after training classes i couldn't cope with both of them together so every walk had to be with Dave & over our local park as it was easier than road walking.
I must say that i don't regret having them together for a moment, our house was so much fun & we coped well really but we are quite easy going couple & have a good sense of humour which is a must but i must stress that team work is essential if there aren't two of you who can spend lots time with them then i would think about it long&hard......i'd never really thought of it that way 'till now :? :lol:
We had our 1st cocker off the same breeder so he knew us but he still sat talking to us for ages about the prospect of 2, he put lots of down sides to us & wouldn't make a decision until we'd gone away & thought about it...in fact we went every week for 6 weeks to spend time with them,interact with them & see how we got on,by then the breeder & ourselves were confident that we'd be ok but maybe he was comfortable knowing that we have no other comitments,except work of course but i only work part time & had cocker experience :wink:
This is something that you must think long&hard about,you must realise that having two will be a full time job&very hard work but if you do decide to go ahead just enjoy them......we did!! :wink:
luv
juels xx
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I think the last entry was very useful, but thought I'd add my comments too..
I always wanted more than one cocker but made the decision to wait until my first boy was nearly 2 before adding the second. I take Neo to a weekly training class and he's a very good, quiet and gentle boy.
At Easter we brought home our 2nd cocker, he's very different personality wise from Neo and has definitely bonded more with Neo. I take him to a separate training class because he howls if he can see Neo but not get to him (Neo's not bothered tho' :D ). Neo is also very soft and am not sure at this point if we're going to have problems with Jovi trying to be top dog.
We have been very careful to socialise Jovi and give him experiences without Neo. We walk Neo without Jovi once a day because he started to have separation anxiety and we needed to over come that. Luckily Jovi is now very confident whether Neo is there or not.
My friend got her 2nd cocker too close to the first one, became pregnant and she just couldn't cope with the two. Luckily her sister took on the youngest and so she sees her nearly everyday. This helped me control myself and wait until Neo was older!!
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I have fostered two or three pups at the same time...and yes I do have grey hairs :shock:
The playing, playfighting, tug of war, destructiveness and cleaning up are never-ending.
I had two pups for several weeks and I barely slept because they would howl and cry in their crate all night every night.
They also bonded with each other and not me or my family. This wasn't a problem for us as they weren't ours to keep...but it may well have been a problem for their new owners as they had to be seperated at 14 weeks :?
One puppy is a lot of hard work....far better to get one trained before the next hooligan arrives :wink:
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hi
thanks for all the advice, and its been a mixed bag, i have four adults in the home and one 12 nearly 13 and my youngest at school now, so i have all day for them, i do not work, and my husband is home also four days in the week, i feel after having a family conference, and chatting through who could do what, and how people felt, we have decided to go for it, i know some of you will scream, at the screen, but we have chatted with the breeder, covered so much and talked about the temperments, and she really knows her dogs.
I would not contemplate it at all, if i thought for one minute i could not give the dogs what they needed, or the family wouldnt help, elmo who we have already is so well behaved, at 10 months, he knows all the commands of sit, stay, leave it, drop it, and wouldnt take food until he is told to take it, even if it is on the floor infront of him. and also understands "be nice", i hope you can all wish me luck, and i will keep you posted, i have become friends with my breeder now, and she is always on the end of a phone to, she says i have done a good job with elmo and she thinks i will cope well, and give them a good home, she has refused people dogs, incidently that is why the chance came up in the first place, so she really is good. thanks for the support, especially those that gave a bit of light, i spoke to someone the other day, that actually did have three, and one came from a rescue home, and she said she never had problems, and no fighting, so i have my supply of matchsticks ready for my eyes, and the valium, hey! maybe i should do a diary slot, could come in handy for others, as this must be a regular issue for a lot of people. and lets face it i have got through 4 toddlers and 2 teenagers WHAT COULD BE WORSE THAN THAT :shock:
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Will you then have 2 puppies and Elmo or just 1 puppy to go with Elmo?
As Elmo has got all his basics it should make it easier and at 10 months he's always going to look to you more... His feelings towards a puppy will be like my Neo who often wears the expression, 'Mummy when is the little hooligan leaving'! :lol:
Congratulations on making a decision and I look forward to seeing pictures of the new arrival(s). I'm sure you'll cope just fine 8) ... I would get a crate for the pup so Elmo can get some peace and quiet!
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One thing you must do then is train the pups separately and work very hard at not letting them bond with each other and not the members of the family. It may sound awful to keep separating them must its a must.
As there was only 13 months apart between my two I have trained them separately which as you can imagine was hard work as I live on my own.
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Elmo - well he certainly won't get bored with 2 puppies around him all day!! Are both the new puppies male? Tango and ? That is you thinking of names all over again! :wink:
I look after my friends puppy for the odd hour Brogan, Bailey and Roscoe together - I couldn't do it long term!! You're a braver person than I am!! Do hope it all works out for you and more importantly for the dogs!!
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Hi Bunny,
Just remember when you do get your pup, Elmo will be at the teenage stage :shock: he will have his own needs and sometimes this age can be quite challenging!! Just something to keep in mind :D
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Lizzy Molly and Evie
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just thought i would let you know that i saw my babies on saturday, squeezable, gorgeous, and i just loved them ,one of them as young as he is started wagging his little stumpy tail, i am in love totally.....
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Good luck...you're going to need it :lol: :lol:
Keep us all posted about your new babies.
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This is going to sound really awful, but here goes....
I have serious doubts about a breeder who 1) would let you have two pup litter mates and 2) do this when you already have an older pup (is he a half-brother/full-brother to the pups?). Unless you and the breeder are exceptional, I would suggest that the breeder has some spare puppies on her hands which she can't home.
Puppies are lovely and it is easy to say yes. What is usually sensible for the long-term behaviour and well-being of all the dogs is to say no.
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I would never ever want two puppies at the same time in my house. It would kill me :lol:.
I would never sell two puppies to the same household either.
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I did'nt realise Bunny was hoping to get 2 !!! puppies, brings me out in a cold sweat just thinking about it! :lol:
Lizzy Molly and Evie
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I thought it was just one pup Bunny was considering to add to her 10 month old Elmo - certainly that's what I got from the earlier posts. Please let us know if it's actually 2 pups you;re considering at the same time in addition to Elmo, as that's a whole different ball game and you could be opening yourself up for a lot of heartache if the sibling rivalry that often develops between two pups raised together in the same home rears its ugly head :(
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I think Bunny is getting 2 pups (litter mates) from the same breeder of her 10 month pup - at least that's how I read it. I am really shocked at any breeder thinking this was a good idea but get the feeling that Bunny had made up her mind from the start & there is nothing anyone could say to change it. I know 2 members posted positive things about taking on 2 puppies together which encouraged Bunny but they did not already have a 10 month old pup at home :shock:
Jane
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Elmo wasn't mentioned at the start of this post. :? And yes bunny is getting 2 littermates. I just hope that Elmo is up to the challenge of leading a multidog household in the very near future :( . There will be a 9 month age gap between him and the pups - he will be 11 months old. I remember Bunny starting a post because Elmo was terrified of other dogs.
My boys are an identical age gap to above - I am very aware however that now is not when the problems happen - but on sexual maturity of the pup. Brogan is very mature and well, Bailey is horizontal he is so laid back - They are from different breed lines. I look after Roscoe (Same breeder as Brogan) he is 2 weeks older than Bailey - and I am so glad that he isn't part of our household - his personality is identical to Brogans and it is mayhem :roll: Good fun when it is only for an hour here and there - wouldn't wish that on Brogan full time though - would be like him a Dad to twins at 14!!!
I really do worry about these 3 very young males - and hope and pray that we are all proved very very wrong and it all works out fantastic - for the dogs sake!! Good luck Elmo :D
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I agree with Jane. I think Bunny had made up her mind beforehand and nothing we could have said would have made any difference at all.
Sorry Bunny - I don't mean to offend - but you have selectively sorted out what you wanted to hear and disregarded the rest - some of which is from very very experienced people who I wish I'd have listened to in the past!
Like others - I hope this does work out - for the sake of the dogs concerned.
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Hi Bunny
Given that you say Elmo is "terrified of most other dogs" perhaps your time and money would be better invested in hiring the services of a behaviourist to help him overcome this rather than buy two more puppies that could just exacerbate his problem.
Maybe you will be extremely lucky and things will work out fine. Far more likely is that you won't be so fortunate and will end up with far bigger problems than you already have. Why take a chance and gamble with the welfare and happiness of three pups in this way ?
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The only reason I didnt post earlier in ths thread is because I misread/mistakenly assumed that Bunny meant she was going to get a second pup - I saw that Elmo was 10 months old, and I thought 'okay, a bit early, but could be okay'... now I'm horrified! Bunny, if only you knew what some of our members, current and old, have been through raising two pups of similar ages, you would seriously reconsider :( The opposite side to the coin to the fact that 2 pups can and often do bond too strongly together is that such a rivalry can result between them - in time, the fighting gets progressively worse, no holding back, and the ONLY way forward once they start to fight to this extent, is to rehome one or the other - keeping both can result in some serious injuries. If Elmo has some fear issues as other people have stated, then he's going to end up a nervous wreck :(
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i have always been open to what people said, or i wouldnt have bothered my backside to ask in the first place, and i have chatted long and hard to different people, i totally object to people saying i made my mind up beforehand and not listened, laura knows for one, as i told her i had discussions with the family,( i have four adults in the home, and i am at home all day,)and i also have chatted to people with three and sometimes more cockers, and the breeder, the welfare has and is the most important of any decision, i made, and some letters have insinuated to my mind anyway that elmo is neglected in this decision, or in the future with this decision, have i got to agree with all of you, is it wrong to do what i think is right or i can achieve, as i joined with elmo and then went onto discuss two more puppies i thought it was fairly obvious, i am sorry if this sounds angry, but i feel some comments were rather personal, other than helpfull. i feel very angry and sad that i have to write this in the first place to defend myself and my actions, why have others managed this successfully? none of you know my situation or me, or the breeder, i asked for opionions on the cockers eg, their relationship to each other including being aggressive etc, not on whats in my own mind. :x
PS i said some dogs scard of not all, and i said why, but he is a lot better now due to hard work on my part
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Sorry to go on Bunny, but I think Colin made a very good point about how the puppies might affect Elmo and his fear of other dog's.
I can't stress this strongly enough, please sort out Elmo's problems before you bring your pups home, or you could have major problems with all three.
Fear in dogs is very hard to rid and it needs careful handling, sometimes taking many months or years to get over, it would be terrible if the puppies learnt this fear from Elmo.
My first dog Molly had a real fear of Border Collie's ( she was attacked by one when she was tiny ) it has taken over a year to help her gain confidence around dogs, ( she'll never be really happy when she meets a Border Collie ) but i had to make sure it did'nt rub of Evie who is now 6 months old because the last thing I wanted was 2 fearful dogs.
Please don't feel like we are trying to get at you, we are just worried that you are biting of more than you can chew.
If you are adamant that you want 2 pups, why not reconsider waiting till Elmo has reached maturity , give him a chance to grow up fully?
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Bunny,
I don't think anybody has insinuated you are neglecting Elmo, I certainly don't think so.
I don't understand why you asked the question in the first place if you were'nt going to listen to the answer's, people were just being honest and nobody wants to upset you I'm sure.
Lizzy Molly and Evie
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i am only going to say this once more I DID LISTEN TO WHAT EVERYONE HAD TO SAY, i then went onto make a decison that we felt as a family was right.
That is why the letter i wrote back in page 2, in part said" it has been a mixed bag". MEANING of peoples opinions.
I do not mind people having their opinions, we live in a free world here anyway, a democratic society, but i do mind when i feel it is personal, it is not that it hasnt been done successfully, and more than perhaps some realise, and for the record elmo so far has had fun with a golden retriever, a great dane, and other cockers, and a collie.
I would like to add that i have had several remarks about how well behaved he is, and what control he has at a young age, i take him to an old folks home weekly, where he is patted and loved.
Just because i make a decision that is different to the biggest percentage on here, not elsewhere, does not mean i have not listened, and also the breeder who is now my friend, knows my situation, has met elmo, and knows her dogs.
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why have others managed this successfully?
I doubt few on this forum have managed with three puppies at the same time - Elmo is still a puppy.
Bunny - stop being angry and think sensibly about having three puppies, two of which are littermates (brothers?) and another which is likely to be a very close relation. No one is having a go at you, we are just shocked that the breeder would ever consider such a set up for their pups. The breeder is therefore not a responsible one - however much you may like her.
If you go ahead, you are setting yourself up for a serious fall and it is the dogs which will come out the worse. The problems probably won't surface immediately - so you wil be able to think we are wrong - but wait until you have two 1 year olds and a 22 month old - particularly if they are all male and related. It will get worse when the twins are 18 months, 2 years and 30 months old.
Unless you are very exceptional, have more knowledge of dogs together than posters on here, and are brilliant at training, it is a disaster waiting to happen.
Rather than try to prove that we are wrong, please think of all the dogs' well-being.
Edited to add: the same applies however well-behaved Elmo is now.
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I was writing my last but one post as you were posting yours ( explaining that you had listened to the views of everybody ).
Don't worry I won't bother replying to any of your posts again.
Lizzy Molly and Evie
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this is getting silly, :roll: i am not trying to prove you all wrong, where in my last text did it say that or anything close, i am telling you what elmo is like.
I do care about the dogs, if i didnt, i would not have put all the hours into chatting and meeting with others in a similar vein.
I am angry at certain comments NOT because people(some) think it is not a good idea,
PERSONAL comments is what i have ISSUE with NOT because someone has disagreed with me.
THE WELFARE IS OF MY UPMOST CONSIDERATION, i hope this is crystal clear now to EVERYONE
PS sorry you feel that way, but you have to accept my opinion as i have yours
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Bunny have you thought about what you're going to do if something does go wrong (not saying that it will happen, but the risk is there)? Do you have the time and space to keep them separately, walk them separately, feed them separately etc, if they at some point start fighting each other?
Do you know what it's like to have two dogs that hate each others guts in the same house. Do you know what it's like to come home and find blood everywhere and one of your dogs nearly dead ? Do you know what it's like to have two dogs that you can't even let in the garden together?
Of course this is a horror scenario, but it has happened, to me.
Giving her to a new home was the hardest thing I have ever had to do, as she had already been to many homes before mine, and I had promised her that with me she was at her forever home (little did I know :cry: ). Should've known really that two dominant bithces aren't a very good match..
Anyway, I found a good home for her (my parents :lol: ), where she's been now for over 2 years and everyone is perfectly happy.
So please, please think again, it's not easy to part with your loved ones if something does go wrong :( .
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OK Bunnie, you are still angry.
Can you answer a factual question? What is the relationship between Elmo and the pups - do they share the same mother, father, both or none?
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No one is having a go at you, we are just shocked that the breeder would ever consider such a set up for their pups. The breeder is therefore not a responsible one - however much you may like her.
Must admit, I agree with this...I am surprised a breeder would allow this set-up to happen.
I've never owned littermates, but I have fostered several sets of sibling puppies and it's a bit of a nightmare...so far I've only fostered male littermates, but EVERY set has fought almost all the time they have been awake...it's suprising how nasty puppy fights can be too. It's very hard to give individual training to two small puppies too. The chances are they will become bonded to each other, and will therefore not be as praise-motivated during house training and so on...meaning much more than "double the work".
However, if you have decided to go ahead anyway, I do wish you luck with your dogs, and I genuinely hope you make a success of it somehow.
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Bunny it is understandable you are feeling defensive as your decision is being criticised but you did ask for opinions & those opinions are not necessarily going to be what you want to hear. It did appear that you were focusing only on the positives & ignoring the negatives but if you say you have considered fully all the negatives, then fair enough. You also say you have talked to people with 3+ dogs but its not the number of Cockers you are taking on we are worried about but their closeness in age & the fact they may all be the same sex & closely related. I find it inconceivable that any experienced breeder (however nice she may be) has not warned you of the possible problems you may face - these are not in our imaginations, they are real & have caused many owners much heartache (perhaps your breeder is unaware of the potential problems as not all breeders have experience of raising litter mates into adulthood). As Hel says, the problems won't necessarily arise when they are cute puppies but when they are older - you will have a pack of 3 similarly aged, same sex (maybe?), closely related dogs, not usually a recipe for canine harmony (any good dog behaviour book will tell you why not). Anyway, I truly hope it does all work out for you & your dog(s) but rather you than me :wink:
Jane
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I'm sorry Bunny but I don't think anything got personal. You did in fact make it personal when you asked for advice on your own situation.
I am learning every day from this site, and while I don't always take the advice offered, I accept it in the spirit which is is intended - to share the wealth of experience and knowledge on this board, from showers, breeders, and dog lovers.
I think if you ask for advice, you have to be aware that it may not be what you want to hear.
I hope you realise that no one is out to get you or spoil things, everyone here just loves the breed.
Shona
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We have got 2 pups a dog and a bitch which we did with the full agreement of the breeder. we have had them both from 9 weeks and while there has been the odd problem weeing etc all has been ok
The dog is so easy to train and both seem to be bonding with all members of the family - we are now in the process at 13 weeks of taking them to socialisation classes.
Both bonnie and ben have slept well at night in their caged area and have never moaned groaned yelped or any other such problem at night.
They are settled well into a routine and both are receptive to training while out walking and in the garden area.
I note other peoples concerns but we have been lucky to be blessed with 2 great natured animals and long may it continue.
Bonnie and Ben :D :D :D :D :D :o :lol:
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Bonnie and Ben - welcome to the group :D
With respect - at 13 weeks you do not know if it is going to work out. It is when they are older and reaching sexual maturity and adolescence that the problems are more likely to start.
I hope your situation does work out, but yours appears to be different from the one being discussed here. nevertheless, if Bunny does go ahead - perhaps you would be able to offer some pointers.
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Bunny, pm'd me regarding this a few weeks ago, I told her more or less what everyone else has said, that its not an ideal situation and should be avoided really!
The one thing I want to say, is that, there must be some kind of doubt in your mind Bunny, to firstly pm me and then to start a thread on the topic :? If you really thought in your hearts of hearts that this is going to be fine, then you wouldn't be seeking others opinions in the first place :wink: Then continue to seek opinions in the hope that someone will give you the answer you want to hear! Its not a criticism Bunny :) I think we are all guilty of asking a question and then closing our ears, until someone agrees with us :wink:
I hope you will look at the whole picture and really consider the implications of this, the hard work involved, the possible problems you and your family may encounter, the financial side of it and also more importantly, the personality of all the dogs involved specifically Elmo! While Elmo may be a treasure, it doesn't mean to say these two pups will be :wink:
Please don't take this post or any of the other posts as a personal attack on you, as they are most certainly not that :) I think all of us on this site, have the dogs and your families best interests at heart, as we all adore this breed, as you do too :D
I do hope that whatever you decide, turns out well, for all concerned. But please take the time to reconsider your options :wink: If your breeder is responsible I am sure he/she will have no problem homing the other puppy :wink: Don't feel obliged to carry out the agreement you made with her, I am sure if he/she is worth their salt, they will fully understand and respect you, if you change your mind :)
Take care
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thanks for messages received, i have taken on board all cocker related opinions, and will keep you all posted, i would like to add that i met a gentleman with his cockers at the weekend(adult), awful background, came from a farm, and had been abused, but thanks to his hardwork and dedication they are lovely dogs, and he has had no major problems, i am not getting at anyone, but i think it has to be said that it has been done, its not all bad news, i feel more optimistic now, and especially thank you to those who gave their opinions in a trully cocker mind, whether they negative or not. :wink:
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I'm locking this thread as I think everyone has had their say now & we will just be going round in circles if more posts are added.
Jane