Author Topic: dementia help  (Read 4371 times)

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Offline Ben's mum

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dementia help
« on: February 20, 2017, 12:08:20 PM »
Sorry this is going to be a long post but I am really struggling and hoping for your thoughts or at least by writing it down it will help me to have a clearer picture of the situation.
 
Just wondering if anyone has been through anything similar with their oldies.
We are really struggling with Ben (just turned 14), he made a good physical recovery from the vestibular episode and is now back up on his feet and as physically fit as he was before.
He still walks most days for a good hour at Chatsworth he is eating and sleeping well.  He does have accidents in the house maybe once a day, we take him out every hour or so like a puppy but sometimes he won't go then has an accident within 5 mins of being back in the house!  However we never make a fuss and to be honest he really doesn't seem to be bothered or distressed by it.

The problem is his dementia has got worse since the vestibular, he is not safe to be left at all - and I mean 5-10 mins is the max so just enough time to nip upstairs to he loo!!  He is on the move all the time walking round and wandering and just gets himself in a complete pickle.  He does things like go behind the TV and get tangled in the cables, goes under the chairs then gets wedged and starts to panic.  He will walk up to Harry and just stare at him or tread on him if he is lying down when means Harry retaliates goes for Ben.  We have moved as much furniture as possible and used foam cushions to try to prevent him going places where he could get hurt, but because physically he is so well he just climbs over barriers or tunnels underneath.  He also finds new ways to get stuck every day in places we never even thought of. OH has not worked for a month because we just can't leave him at all.  We have bought an enclosed soft pen, but he doesn't like it and I doesn't want him to be distressed.

So I have a huge problem, he is well in himself and actually I would argue he still has a good quality of life as long as we are with him. He is happy in his own little world pottering around, and he will cuddle up for ages, snuggle in and seems to be 'happy' for want of a better word.  He shows enthusiasm for going out on his walk, not like he used to but enough to say he is still wanting to go out and his is getting something from it.

He is already on Activait and Vivitonin to try to help with the dementia and I am at a loss as to what to do now  :'( :'(  When my mum's dogs have got elderly it has become clear when they have had enough as they have either been unwell e.g. kidney failure or just 'gone off their legs' as they say and it was clear that they have poor quality of life.  I have seen people oh here write things like you know when its time or better a day too soon than a day to late'  :'(   but the problem is I really don't know.  He seems much to well to say he has had enough but that is only with our 24 hour support. If we said now is the time I know in my heart I would always feel it is too soon, he is not ready.  But equally I am scared of leaving it too late and him getting hurt because of the scrapes he gets into, I don't want his last days to be in pain.

Sorry again for the long post, I know over the years lots of you have had to say goodbye to your cockers, this is my first time and I just never imagined it to be like this, I just assumed I would know what Ben needed and what the right choices were for him.

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: dementia help
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2017, 12:45:03 PM »
So sorry to read this, it must be so distressing to see Ben like that but I understand exactly how you feel, my first dog was similar, he was messing in the house which was distressful  but then his hips went and that made the decision a bit easier for us. What does your vet think?
I really don't know what to say that might be of help other than the cliche that I think you WILL know when the time comes, - I had put the decision off with Thor but then one day his legs just went from underneath him and I made the decision there and then, - it may have been overdue but I did feel that I needed him to know why I was doing it, if that makes sense ? -he knew himself that it was time and he went peacefully.
The choice is awful, I've had to do it twice now but at the end of the day only you can make it and when you do, it will be with Ben's best interest at heart.
I hope someone else can maybe find better words to help you. Sending  :bigarmhug: and thinking of you? Stay strong! X

Offline Sumava Cockers

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Re: dementia help
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2017, 05:05:18 PM »
Hi Bensmum.

Our old Cocker Betty was quite similar at that age.

Se would often get herself tangled up in wires  or even dining table and chair legs...and needed assistance to extract herself.

In her case her biggest problem was progressive loss of vision,  combined with deafness in one ear and finally both.    Could your boy be suffering the same?  If he can't see or hear well,  he'll be trying to see the world by smell   which could give him the appearance of having lost the plot sometines.

We didn't have the toilet problems, until her kidneys had almost entirely given up.

Betty's world was dependent on us in many ways.  Her vision was not entirely lost,  she could still make out big shapes,  and her sense of smell remained intact.  This enabled her a good degree of independence especially when out on walks in familiar territory.

Interestingly,  although she was effectively stone deaf,  she seemed to be able to detect the vibration of our footsteps when we were out walking.  Usually she was off-lead   and even at 35m away from us she's usually react quickly to us stopping.   We have many funny stories about walking this happy old lady like this,  but these can wait to a more appropriate  time to share.

Our best wishes to your old boy and we hope you can find a way to make his life comfortable again,

ATB



Sarka, Jon and Barnaby B

Offline JeffD

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Re: dementia help
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2017, 07:23:13 PM »
So sorry to read this only you will know when the time is right, but better a week to early than a day to late
sending big hugs its always heartbreaking
Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly

Offline Redked

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Re: dementia help
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2017, 01:02:27 AM »
I really feel for you. Callie dog was 15, had been pacing for a long time and was at the point of weeing in side - she wasn't incontinent, she just didn't know any more that she was supposed to go outside but she still wagged her tail and ate well. There were times we called her in from the garden and she would just stand and look at us. We didn't realise that she had forgotten her name! It got to the point where we couldn't let her off lead on walks as she didn't know which way to go any more. We tried medication but there was no improvement. Still we said she's wagging her tail and eating and still enjoys her walks.

We kept saying why can't she just go peacefully in her sleep so we don't have to make that decision? The vet told us she wouldn't improve but that we had to make the choice and he would not advise us one way or another. It was heart wrenching and I'm sorry to say we never knew when the time was right. We kept on and on as we just didn't know.....physically she was not suffering and mentally,  she wasn't aware. A year went by and we knew we were going to have to make a decision as her life had changed and she just wasn't Callie any more. It was so hard having to just chose a day when it would happen, but we had to and we did. She was 16 and a half.

Afterwards, we realised we had let it go on far too long and she hadn't really had quality of life for a long time. Callie had been weeing and pooing inside for well over a year, paced and panted regularly (obviously distressed) she didn't know her name and she couldn't run freely any longer but we had ignored that because physically she looked the same and it felt wrong to have to decide it was time....it's supposed to happen naturally! We should have done right by her sooner rather than let it continue.

I am sorry to paint such a bleak picture and I am sure Ben is not at that stage yet but I wanted to let you know that you should make the decision for Ben based on him and his quality of life. When he is no longer Ben, even if you don't feel it's right (you probably won't ever feel it's right) but you have to make a tough choice for his sake and I am sure you will. Just enjoy him now and carry on making his life as lovely and happy as possible but if his dementia deteriorates, as JeffD says, its better a week early than a day late and I wish we had done that as our memories of Callie's last year are filled with pain and guilt for letting it go on so long xxx

Sorry for such a long post....this has stirred so many old emotions up xx

Offline Ben's mum

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Re: dementia help
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2017, 09:41:29 AM »
Thank you all for your replies, it has really helped me to put things in perspective.

Redked, don't apologise for painting a bleak picture, its the reality of our situation and it was comforting to know others had been there and understood the reality of making such a difficult decision.  You have summed up our thoughts, I keep wishing Ben would go in his sleep, but then feel guilty for even starting to think I hope he doesn't wake up  :'(  I think what you have said about recognising when Ben isn't 'Ben' anymore is perhaps key to this, and helps as I know at the moment he is still there without a doubt, but is starting to disappear.

I will make an appointment to see our vet and have a chat, when he had vestibular she advised us not to rush and make a hasty decision, but to wait and see what he was like when that had gone

thank you again everyone I know this is such an emotional subject  for so many people  :luv:

Offline Jaysmumagain

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Re: dementia help
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2017, 10:33:37 AM »
Just to say that am so sorry to read this and as always my thoughts are very much with you, the if only has been thought by us all.

 :bigarmhug:
Cocker kisses and cuddles just make my day!


You are always with me darlings Jaypup and my precious Oliver you are so missed

Offline 8 Hairy Feet

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Re: dementia help
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2017, 10:48:04 AM »
Yes  :bigarmhug: from us too.
Such a difficult time for you, heartbreaking.

Offline Redked

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Re: dementia help
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2017, 04:12:39 PM »

I think what you have said about recognising when Ben isn't 'Ben' anymore is perhaps key to this, and helps as I know at the moment he is still there without a doubt, but is starting to disappear.

This was the point I was trying to make but got carried away with the memory and wrote more than I intended. Definitely once you know that Ben is no longer there, that will be the right time (as right as it can be). Luckily you seem to still have him so enjoy every moment and I will be thinking of you and Ben and send my love  :luv:

Offline elaine.e

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Re: dementia help
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2017, 04:31:31 PM »
Hi Ben's mum.

I'm so sorry to read about Ben and his dementia. I'm sure I would have been in a similar situation with my very old boy Josh if he hadn't made the decision for me by suddenly deteriorating physically in the space of a day. His dementia wasn't as advanced as Ben's, but was worsening. Like Ben he still enjoyed his food and walks (although very short ones) and loved his cuddles and snuggling up on the sofa.

My friend is in a similar situation to you at the moment, although her elderly Golden Retriever has a different set of medical problems. She's on very high doses of various meds because of hip and back pain, yet still loves her food, potters about on short walks and loves attention and affection. She doesn't have dementia, but is having increasingly frequent UTIs and when she has them she pants and paces at night or if my friend isn't at home (even if other family members are) and is desperate for company and security. The end result is that my friend ends up sleeping downstairs several nights a week and feels unable to leave Ruby too often.

Her vet (who is also my vet, much trusted and liked, very kind, also practical) has put it very gently to my friend that she needs to consider her own physical and mental well being in all of this, and that of her family too. The time is coming closer where Ruby's UTIs will be what dominates her life, or her legs will go from under her, but the vet is questioning if perhaps the time is even nearer because of the huge strain it's putting on the family.

I'm not sure if I've been able to write that as eloquently or delicately as I wanted to, but please, please think of yourself and your husband in all of this, as well as Ben. It can be so difficult to know when the time has come to say goodbye. I know how conflicted my friend Maria is, wanting the best for Ruby, loving her and caring for her every day, good or bad. At the moment the good days are outweighing the bad ones for Ruby, but it's still mentally and physically exhausting for Maria, which she's finding hard to acknowledge as well as to deal with.

Sending some hugs to all of you  :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:

Offline Liz F

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Re: dementia help
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2017, 05:22:26 PM »
Hi, not good with words and don't post often but just wanted to say how sorry I am to read about Bens dementia. Can't give you advise but you will know when the time is right,   :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: to Ben and you :luv:

Liz, Olli & Diesel xx

Offline Finvarra

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Re: dementia help
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2017, 05:38:58 PM »
So sorry to read about Ben, it's really hard. I know you will give him all the care and love,he needs till,his time comes. Thinking of you both  :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:

Lesley and Dylan
Remembering All the dogs of my life, especially Milo

Offline lescef

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Re: dementia help
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2017, 08:22:10 PM »
I so admire you and others in the same situation who continue to care for very  poorly dogs until they tell you they are ready to go.
We have lost two dogs and neither had the dreadful symptoms you are describing.  I don't really know if they were ready to go, but I found myself distraught every day knowing at some point I would have to make that decision and so for my own emotional state I let them go. It's dreadful no matter when it's done,  it's a personal decision and you need to balance your own welfare as well as Bens. Sending my love. X
Lesley, Maddie and Bramble

Offline Countrygirl

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Re: dementia help
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2017, 05:25:23 PM »
Why can't they stay young and healthy forever.

Thinking of you and Ben.  Hope with all my heart that Ben is with you for a long while yet.

Offline Penelope

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Re: dementia help
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2017, 05:57:00 PM »
Only just seen this.  So very sorry that this is happening to Ben.

Suki is our first dog who has got "very old" at the ripe old age of 13 and Trev says she is now an ornament (in the nicest way!)  She is content to stay in her bed all day long.  She gets up once or twice to turn around and get comfortable.  But left to her own devices that is all.  She has to be encouraged to go outside - and once out there she usually does her business.  We now leave puppy pads down in the kitchen most of the time because at night she sometimes can't hold her wee.  She occasionally poos on them too - usually when it is wet and windy outside and she hasn't wanted to stay out there long enough to actually "go".  She struggles to get in the boot of the car now when we go for walks and just potters along beside me the whole walk.  However, she won't let me help her into the boot and freaked out when I borrowed a friend's doggie ramp to try and help her.

However, she still eats her food (albeit in small amounts and keeps going back for about an hour until it has all gone)
Still wants to come for walks with us - although if cold and wet she is quite happy to stay home.  You can see her eyes are a little cloudy but her hearing is fine.  She moves from her day bed in the living room to her night time bed in the utility room at bed time and seems quite happy.

She seems fine in herself - although has numerous lumps and bumps (all checked by the vet and are nothing to worry about)  But her mind seems as clear as ever. 

I think what I am trying to say is that dogs - like people - differ greatly as they get older.  My mum was sharp as a pin right up until the very end.  Trev's mum has been going downhill very fast with dementia and it is incredibly distressing to watch.  It is the same with our beloved dogs.  Suki is like my mum - and Ben is like Trev's mum.  As for knowing when the time is right, I sincerely hope that Ben will let you know.  All the time you can manage his symptoms and are happy to do so, then he can keep on going.  When the time comes that you feel actually he really doesn't have the quality of life you know he deserves, then you can decide together what to do next.

I am sending you huge hugs - for you, your husband and for Ben and Harry who probably wonders what on earth is happening.  Hopefully Ben isn't aware that he isn't as sharp as he was?  Trev's mum is adamant there is nothing wrong with her and we struggle to get her to see the doctor for anything. 

 :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:

Penny,   Dexter (cavalier x poodle), Alfie (Whippet cross)  and  Maximus the cocker spaniel!!

RIP my 2 most gorgeous cocker girls - Buffy and Harriet - both waiting for me at the bridge. Joined by my beloved Josie taken too soon and Suki aged 13 :(