Chasing Cars

[suki1964]

 Alfie has suddenly started to chase cars

We live on a main road and although its not what you can discribe as busy, cos theres no speed restrictions the cars do tend to pass by at high speeds. I walk Alfie up the lane which is on the corner so we are only on the road for a minute or less, but this morning he nearly got hit as he just lunged into the road after one car and another was flying up behind Luckily I had his extending locked on short but the pure speed and force of him dragged me behind him.

Hes also lunging at cars in the lane. maybe one or two will pass us - mostly its just the odd tractor. I walk him off lead here but as soon as I hear a car coming i put him on lead and bring him in close. I do have plenty of time as I can see the end of the lane clearly.We often have to stand in against the hedgrow to let the car past. They do drive carefully along here as it is just a lane(its where I practice my driving ) but all the same Alfie is going ballistic, on two legs pulling and barking As soon as the car has gone on by hes back to normal and I could let him off the lead and he wouldnt be interested in chasing the car, its just when hes on lead and the car is passing.

Its only started happening this week (been here 4 months now) and I need to nip it in the bud quick. Only I dont have a clue on how to go about it. Any help? Hes not food orientated and although a ball will usually distract him, its not working in this instance:( Its stressfull enough walking him keeping him out of the fields that have sheep or have just been sprayed, this behaviour is just adding to the stress and Im just at my wits end Im so scared hes going to get hit by a car

[cazza]

Hi Caroline

Sorry no advice, but Fern tries to chase the tyres of a passing car (Last couple of mornings), I keep her on a short lead and try to keep her on the inside.

I would be interested in any advice in how to nip this in the bud too

[Top Barks]

You say he's not food orientated what foods do you use? What about roast beef or chicken?
You need to clasically condition your dog to associate a car coming with something good happening for the dog.
You need to find what your dog finds really rewarding and use it only when cars are in the vicinity and as soon as the car is past stop the reinforcement.
I would also try loosening your lead as a car approaches and turning around so that you are not meeting the car head on.
See how she reacts if the car comes from behind You need to change your dogs emtional response to the approaching cars and  systematic desensitisation maybe what is needed here.
This is when you introduce the dog to the scary stimulus which is in this case the cars at a distance where she feels safe and will not react and reinforce like mad responses like looking at you for instance or any other calm behaviour. you then gradully decrease the distance between your dog and the scary stimulus as and when she can deal  with it until she is by the main road and  not reacting. This may take time and exposing her to the opprtunity to lunge at cars in the meantime would set this method back severely.
Have you ever used clicker training?
So difficult to give more specific advice on here so if the problem persists then I suggest a reputable behaviourist should be able to help you.
Some good books to read are click to calm by Emma Parsons and Dogs are from neptune by jean Donaldson.
Best of luck
Mark

[suki1964]

Thanks for that Mark

Doesnt matter what food i use, if hes occupied elsewhere hes just not interested unless Ive starved him for 24 hours. Tennis balls have always been by saviour but so far hes even been prepared to drop the ball in his persuit.

Ive spent part of the day with the clicker trying to keep him focussed on me with bits of cheese and the tennis balls - got about 10 mins out of him before he decided he'd had enough cheese, and running off into the corner of the garden with a ball was more rewarding then having it thrown 

I also tried getting him to sit in the front garden on lead, with me beside him watching the cars go by. he was good up till about halfway up the garden when the urge to go for it became too much

Ive done the about turns in the lane, even running into a field but he just totally fixated with getting to the cars. I really dont know where this has sprung from. I was away to london for a  few days two weeks ago and me mum said he started it then. Same breath she said he needed a good smack on the nose with the lead Now if she has done this shes not saying as i think she knows shes gone too far. When I came home hubby was home as well for a fortnight so walks were in open spaces like the beach - no cars close so the behaviour never showed. The other thing Ive realised is that he was pretty  shy about getting in the car on the journey out whereas he usually leaps in, we had to coerce him in, usually we only need to coerce him on the journey home cos he doesnt want the walk to end.

Im going to see how we go sitting in the front garden - no boundry fence or wall so clear view but at least 100 ft away so if he does lunge and gets loose Ive got time to catch him. Even though the cars are slower in the lane, theres really no room to manuver (sp) if he gets loose.What do you think?

If no joy or improvement this week i think I shall have to get someone in

[Top Barks]

Take it very slowly and don't ask for more than the dog can cope with.

[suki1964]

Cos of an early hospital appointment I didnt get to take Alfie out till late - and he was hungry so treats were taken, and I had some limited success Twice in the lane I had him sat and focussed on me as cars approached, He still got out of sit posistion but couldnt really go far and was soon "back with me" And walking the main road, I managed to keep him at quite a close heel - did still do the two legged walk after the cars though.

feeling a bit more positive with that little success so will try again this afternoon.

[cazza]

It doesn't seem to matter if we are facing the cars or not, it's only cars on the side that we are walking that she tends to turn round toand pulls towards.
I am using clicker training.
Unfortunately we have to walk 50 yards along the road to get to the walks we use. (3 seperate walks, all down the road a 50 yards) So it's not as tho it is much road, but for the morning walk which is anywhere between 8.15am and 9.15am the road is busy with commuter traffic into town, this route is also used by plant machinery traffic.

I've had Fern waiting at end of drive waiting for the school bus, initially in my arms when I first got her to accustom her to the traffic, now she has to sit beside me. But tbh I've started putting her in her crate than taking her to the rd end to wait with me for the bus

Well done Caroline I'll keep trying too

[SARAHLP]

I think you may need to address this with one to one training if it doesn't improve?.  It's going to be tough but you need to keep perservering & not remove him from the situation but keep getting him used to it.  Have you tried liver cake?  If not give it a go to persuade him to focus on that in every time a car goes past?  In our class there are 2 out of 12 dogs who react this way to cars & this is the advice given to their owners.  Suddenly after months of ignoring cars they go mad over them as you have explained.  Because its only a small minorty of the class they won't go over solutions in detail hence one to one training is required 

GOOD LUCK

[suki1964]

Im thinking I may be finding help sooner rather then later. I can barely type tonight my hands are so bruised from holding him back.

Out tonight and when he went for a car I was reminded of how he is when he goes for the cats. Theres loads of feral cats in the area and hes found that they tend to sit under certain bushes on the corner of the road. He has been (on extending lead) pulling straight for these bushes the minute they are in eyesight and of course if theres a cat he flushes them out and they fly across the road with him up on back legs desperate to get at them - me hanging on for dear life. Now the cats have wised up and moved off, its like hes transferred the behaviour to the cars. He really does get ott with pure excitement. Even if I have been successfull in keeping him sat (holding on to collar and shoving treats down his throat) whilst the car passes, the minute I let up hes doing his best to chase. Its not even that i can change walks to see if that helps, anywhere else involves a walk along the main road and we dont have footpaths - I darent risk it.

Ive stopped using the extending lead. I think thats not helped. Trouble was because of the lack of walkable open space, i thought I was doing the best for him by using it - obviously not


Think I shall be ringing the vet this week for details of a behaviourist

[suki1964]

Further update and advice please.

Tried again today, trying to keep him focussed on me with sausage, cheese etc and as a car came, if he stayed focussed i shoved the food down his throat praising him like mad. If he lunged then I turned him away and ignored the behaviour. This worked for all of two cars, he lunged and barked at the other 5 or 6

So I rang the vets for a behaviourist number and hey ho the one they reccomend is in Belfast - near on 60 miles away. Checked out the APDT site and once again, all listed in the Belfast area with no one will to travel out this far and me not driving yet

So right now Im on my own dealing with this and getting a tad stressed to say the least.

Now the receptionist at the vets sugested a harness to stop him lunging. Now at first I was thinking silly person, what does she know, but since reading about the sporn on here Im wondering if it will help? I mean not to use it and not do anything about the car chasing, but does anyone think it will give me more control over him?

I admit that with all thats gone on this past few months training has really gone to pot. Its been enough of a problem just getting him out and exercised enough between the rain, snow, gales etc. But Im now paying for it big time as I may as well talk to a wall the amount of notice hes paying me - even his recall has gone to the wall - he comes back in his own sweet time now. So its not just the car chasing, I really do need to get back to the basics.

And seeing as its not just Alfies traning thats got to pot, my own has as well so any recommendations on clicker training books or dvds (prefered)?

[Nicola]

I can definitely recommend the Sporn, I've only used it twice so far with my Alfie but it's been fantastic. He has a habit of lunging at people because he's so keen to say hello but this morning I even managed to get him round PAH with no problems and both my arms are still the same length  It hasn't stopped him wanting to pull most of the time but the control it gives is amazing and I think he has actually twigged that he's not getting anywhere when he pulls. I ordered it from ebay, from a pet store based in Arizona. It arrived within a week, cost $25.99 inc postage and was worth every cent!

As for the behaviourist, my mum and stepdad have springers and he goes shooting and stuff so he knows a lot of doggy people. They live in Portstewart so I will ask him if he knows of anyone closer to Ballymoney for you.

[Top Barks]

You are also asking to much at the moment and setting yourself up to fail. Can you avoid this road and find a quiet country lane where you could set up a situation where you could reward lots of calm behaviour around a car parked at distance at first and slowly do more sessions to build up his confidence with the car gettting closer and closer until it can drive past
With a reactive dog ( and I have two of them) you have to go at the pace the dog can cope with.
If you carry on exposing your dog to levels of the scary stimulus that he cannot handle then you may set him back further. There is no quick fix with a reactive dog it takes lots of thought, hard work and patience on the part of the owner to turn these dogs around. Lots of anxietiy remedies you could look into as well
Have you tried Dap before, you can buy spray to put on your clothes or a collar.
Bach flower remedies are anther option although i must confess i have never used them myself. Some people I know use Skullcap and valerian to help their anxious dogs.

When the car goes past do you tense up at the expectation he will react?
Why not try someone who does not know his history to take him on a short walk and see how he gets on to rule you out as the trigger for this behaviour.
It is probably not you, but it would at least rule it out completley.Does he react if other people take him out?
Wish I was in Belfast Can you come to york

[Nicola]

My stepdad has suggested The Sheiling Canine Training and Behaviour Centre. It's in Newtownards but they do home visits and 1-to-1s so they should be able to come to you.

The contact is John Wilson and it's john.wilson@uku.co.uk 

He doesn't know this guy personally but he's heard about them from other people with dogs... Hope it helps! 

[suki1964]

Mark

Im doing my best. Im avoiding the road as best I can but I live on it so I have no option but to walk along it for the distance of the house on the corner - about 1000ft till I get to the lane To take him anywhere else it will be to take him further along by cars. Its a country A road, fast but not what you call busy,no footpath, my house is set about 100ft back with no boundry. Im picking my times as best I can to avoid as much of the cars as possible - you can actually go 10 mins without one passing, then when one does its flyng down doing over 60mph. Yes I am tensing as even if I leave Alfie with just enough lead that his feet can touch the ground, the verge is narrow enough that he can reach the tarmac if he lunges

The lane is as quiet as Im going to get. It services two farms and three houses so cars are hit and miss, mainly milk tankers and tractors, farm owners cars and the odd car using it as a cut through. Once again I pick my time between school run, milktankers and cow milking to avoid what I can. Once again cos theres no foot path I am having to hold Alfie on a near strangle to stop him getting under the wheels

Hes fine around parked cars passes them no heed. The minute he sees a car moving then hes "waiting for it" theres no keeping his focus on me at all, dodging past me to see the car. Ive noticed as well that hes taken to sitting at the back fence looking through the slats to watch the cars go by.

So unless I never let him out of the house, cars are something hes got to deal with. And I cant understand why all of a sudden this fixation has come about. In London we lived on a very busy road, cars up and down all day and of course walking him anywhere meant walking along roads that were choked with cars. There he happily sat at the curb waiting to cross with busses, lorries and cars barely a whisker away.Walking in big parks going back to the car park he walked nicely, cars not bothering him and rarely needing to be put back onlead. He was never the most well behaved dogs but those that have met him on meets will vouch he wasnt a monster either, walked nicely along side, came back when called, gave up his ball when asked to drop. Now cos Im frazzeled with the car episodes, Ive lost the lot, Id be better of talking to a wall

He does the same when my mother walks him so she wont/cant walk him anymore as hes too strong for her. Dont know about hubby cos hes not here and Im not on dropping in for coffee terms let alone "can you help with me and my dog" with the neighbours yet.

So right now I am feeling rather crap and totally useless and thinking I may just have to ring the breeder as I obviously cant cope on my own. My arms are pulled out of their sockets and my hands are bruised from wrapping the lead. I have nerve compression in my left arm so have no strength and very little feeling in the left hand which is why I thought that maybe getting the harness would help with the control. If I can get him past the road and to be able to walk up the lane in an half orderly manner we could then work more on his focus on me when cars are passing or maybe thats going about things the wrong way?

[suki1964]

My stepdad has suggested The Sheiling Canine Training and Behaviour Centre. It's in Newtownards but they do home visits and 1-to-1s so they should be able to come to you.

The contact is John Wilson and it's john.wilson@uku.co.uk 

He doesn't know this guy personally but he's heard about them from other people with dogs... Hope it helps! 

Nicola, you are a star - thankyou

I shall get in touch ASAP.