CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: Minky on January 22, 2018, 07:29:57 PM
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Ok so I’m not sure what to do next. Our pup is turning 6 months old and for the most part is becoming a gentle loving pet. After terrible biting earlier in his life we seem to be over the worst of that thank goodness!
However he has become a bit of a problem at night time.
He is crate trained.
His crate is downstairs in the tv room. It is covered, he has a favourite toy for sleeping and we leave the radio on low for him.
He happily goes into his crate about 10/10:30pm.
Over the last month or so he’s been randomly waking up in the night and howling the house down. This is anything between 3:40 and 5am.
I’ve tried to leave him to bark but he’s relentless so I’ve been coming down and letting him into the garden. Each time he wees, and he has also pood on occasion (although my hunch is that the waking is now a habit/attention seeking rather than toilet related).
I’m embarrassed to admit that I’ve been staying down with him after his night waking, and been dropping off to sleep on the sofa until morning but this is becoming unsustainable and I’m getting ill from the disturbed nights.
At this age is it wise to just let him bark/howl if he wakes? He’s very stubborn and i am can convinced that he will howl for hours if I don’t go down.
In addition we are now seriously considering letting him come upstairs to sleep - to fix the middle waking, and hope that he will actually sleep later than 6:30am.
If we try this once and it fails, are we screwed with the crating downstairs if we wanted to revert?
Everyone I ask seem to have pups/dogs that sleep until 7/8/9am but they are all upstairs.
Scooby is a needy Cocker and really craves attention and human contact (don’t they all lol?!). I’m beginning to wonder if we can solve this problem really easily by bringing him upstairs.
Help!!
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Hi minky,
I feel your pain! We have been relatively lucky with our pup (now 14 months) and we havnt crate trained but we did have a short while at around 6-7months where he decided to wake at night and howl the house down.
At first we fretted, thinking it was a toileting need.so we made sure we went down and let him out but we made sure we didn't engage in any touch, talk or eye contact. We were pretty harsh, walked in, opened the garden door and when he came back in we told him to go to bed and walked out.. our logic with this was that he didn't receive any un-nessessary attention or excitement but we still ensured he had done his business when he needed as we didn't want to disrupt the toilet training which had gone so well..
Luckily this worked for us, now he sleeps from 11 till 10am if I let him!!
The other issue we had was Leo went through a stage of holding when we first put him to bed. This was much easier, we knew he didn't need a wee. So we point blank ignored it and he soon got the message.
I've never wanted Leo to share our bedroom as I enjoy some time away from him! So I would say if you really don't want to let him in your bedroom then don't give in! It may take a few nights of howling but hopefully he might get the message.
Maybe you could try dictating his toilet routine.. if you put him to bed at 10.30 ish maybe pop down at 11.30ish and let him out for a wee, that way he's less likely to wake through the night if it is a toilet need, And he'll also learn to wait for you to let him out. Others may be able to advise about how long 6 monthers can hold their bladder for but generally I told myself if he was able to last the night without going before he started howling, then I knew he could do it during and after the howling! Hope that helps a bit
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It IS possible to have your cocker sleep all night in a crate downstairs - Henry sleeps from 8:30pm to 8:30am in his crate in the kitchen. Of course, every dog is different, but it is possible, don't assume it isn't.
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It IS possible to have your cocker sleep all night in a crate downstairs - Henry sleeps from 8:30pm to 8:30am in his crate in the kitchen. Of course, every dog is different, but it is possible, don't assume it isn't.
He was sleeping 10:30-6:30am from 12 weeks old until about 5.5 months.
So I know he can do it. Admittedly I would like him to sleep later but my main issue is the recent night wakings.
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Hi minky,
I feel your pain! We have been relatively lucky with our pup (now 14 months) and we havnt crate trained but we did have a short while at around 6-7months where he decided to wake at night and howl the house down.
At first we fretted, thinking it was a toileting need.so we made sure we went down and let him out but we made sure we didn't engage in any touch, talk or eye contact. We were pretty harsh, walked in, opened the garden door and when he came back in we told him to go to bed and walked out.. our logic with this was that he didn't receive any un-nessessary attention or excitement but we still ensured he had done his business when he needed as we didn't want to disrupt the toilet training which had gone so well..
Luckily this worked for us, now he sleeps from 11 till 10am if I let him!!
The other issue we had was Leo went through a stage of holding when we first put him to bed. This was much easier, we knew he didn't need a wee. So we point blank ignored it and he soon got the message.
I've never wanted Leo to share our bedroom as I enjoy some time away from him! So I would say if you really don't want to let him in your bedroom then don't give in! It may take a few nights of howling but hopefully he might get the message.
Maybe you could try dictating his toilet routine.. if you put him to bed at 10.30 ish maybe pop down at 11.30ish and let him out for a wee, that way he's less likely to wake through the night if it is a toilet need, And he'll also learn to wait for you to let him out. Others may be able to advise about how long 6 monthers can hold their bladder for but generally I told myself if he was able to last the night without going before he started howling, then I knew he could do it during and after the howling! Hope that helps a bit
My friends joke that I have model children so the dog has to be the challenging ‘child’!!!
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Lack of sleep with a pup is hard work, so I do sympathise. :o
First of all, take no notice of what other people say - all pups are different and people often exaggerate how well behaved/trained their dog actually is >:(
He is still only a baby so it may be too much for him to go through the night without needing to toilet ;) If you left him alone after, would he settle again if you went back up to bed? If he is weeing and pooing when he wakes you, then he probably actually needs to go so it is good that he is telling you ph34r
What time do you feed him? Perhaps give him his last food a bit earlier if you think this might be leading to him needing a poo in the night.
Totally up to you if you decide to have him sleep with you but, as you fear, once you let him sleep with you, it will be even more difficult to revert so you need to be happy to carry on with this once you start :shades: Some people move the crate a bit nearer to them so they can hear pup if he stirs eg on the landing outside your bedroom - is this an option perhaps?
Some people get up in the night specifically to let their pup out for a wee as they may still need it at this age. When you do, just make sure you don't say anything or interact with him - just straight out, do wee and then back to bed.
Hope you find a solution that works for you and you can all get a good night's sleep soon! :D
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Don‘t know if its significant but we found that after a while Humphrey was better when it wasn‘t pitch dark, so we stopped closing the blinds completely. I do agree that they‘re all different so its a matter of trying out what‘s best for you, but sometimes even little adjustments make a difference. Other than that, I agree with what Joules has said. It IS easier said than done, I know, especially when you‘re tired but the calmer you can manage to stay, the calmer Scooby will be. I also chose a few extra hours on the sofa rather than letting him sleep in our room and it turned out well in the end, he finally got used to staying downstairs. Good luck, I hope Scooby settles down soon!
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First of all, take no notice of what other people say - all pups are different and people often exaggerate how well behaved/trained their dog actually is >:(
In the spirit of full disclosure, I’ll say Henry really does sleep for 12 hours every night in his crate but in many other regards he’s a complete pain in the proverbial. Sometimes you just have to accentuate the positive, as the song goes. ;)
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First of all, take no notice of what other people say - all pups are different and people often exaggerate how well behaved/trained their dog actually is >:(
In the spirit of full disclosure, I’ll say Henry really does sleep for 12 hours every night in his crate but in many other regards he’s a complete pain in the proverbial. Sometimes you just have to accentuate the positive, as the song goes. ;)
:lol2: That comment wasn't directed at you ;)
I just meant that each dog is different and some will be quicker than others to get the whole sleeping through the night /toilet training thing. Coco took flipping ages to be fully house trained - I really thought I must be doing it all wrong, especially when people kept telling me that their dog was house trained in 2 weeks etc etc :-\
Just stick with it, try not to stress too much, try a few changes and find what works for you and your pup. It may not seem like it at the moment but it will be fine in the end.
Good luck :D
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All three of mine sleep in their crates in my bedroom and have done so since each was 8 weeks old, I felt they needed the company and would settle quicker if the could smell/feel my presence, and I needed my sleep to cope with daily activities. If they needed the loo as pups in the middle of the night, I would make the bathroom with newspaper down their loo as I didn't want to wake them up too much and they all went back to sleep after they were more comfortable. I go to bed pretty late so their last wee/poo outside was about 12am (still is)
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If he needs to do the toilet in the night why not organise a pen and put down some newspapers for him to go on? He maybe likes a bit more freedom to move around if he wakes.
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If he needs to do the toilet in the night why not organise a pen and put down some newspapers for him to go on? He maybe likes a bit more freedom to move around if he wakes.
Giving him a little more freedom might help but I‘d be reluctant to rely on the newspapers for him to go on at this stage in the game. If he‘s barking and really does need to go out and then you ignored him, I tend to think that would be a step backwards???
While Humphrey would sleep through for 12 hours now, he didn‘t at 6 months, it DOES get better I promise and the time goes sooooo quickly, hang on in there and in a couple of weeks or so, all these sleepless nights will be forgotten. Your pup is quite normal! ;)
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Mason was much the same at six months and I was lacking sleep as a result, but then it stopped and for the last month or two he has slept through. It might be the dark mornings that helped though; we'll find out as the days get longer.
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Titch did exactly this - we thought he had settled nicely to being in crate all night, then around 5.5 months he started howling at about 2 a.m. Of course I got up and let him out a few times, but soon realised that as it was dark I couldn't always see if he was doing anything or not. So started putting his lead on and walking him round the garden, not talking, no attention at all. Then straight back into his bed, no attention.
Realised that at most he was having a tiny wee, so decided to take him out about half hour later before (my) bedtime and then let him howl if he woke in the night. It was hard, and must be very difficult if you have close neighbours. However, I'm pretty sure it only took a few nights for him to settle again through til early (7-ish) morning again.
Titch is 20 months now and has had the freedom of the house at night for about 9 months. He still chooses to sleep in his crate most nights, only occasionally choosing his daybed in front of the living room fire.
I've never let a dog sleep in my bedroom, and seeing the livestock (mainly slugs) and twigs he can bring in on his undercarriage after even a couple of minutes in the garden I'm not inclined to change that any time soon ;)
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I know exactly how you feel as I went through the exact same thing with Jett (from 9 weeks until 7 months old).
It was really frustrating as I kept hearing that people with dogs/puppies were all saying their dogs sleep from 9pm until 9am without any problems :huh: . Everything seemed perfect with everyone elses but mine was a right pain and I kept thinking what am I doing wrong?? In the end I stopped listening to these people as it was no help at all.
The steps I took were as follows, Jett was in crate downstairs and my room is upstairs. Not sure which ones helped the most but I will list them anyway:
Radio off - I started to keep the radio on as well, however I found that the noise disturbed him more and he did not settle. So I turned this off completely.
Clock - I put a clock that ticked next to his crate. The noise is meant to settle young ones.
Blankets - I put lots of balnkets in his crate so he can snuggle up.
Water - No water/food in the crate. His last feed would always be before 8pm
Shout out - When he howled or barked and I knew that he had already been to the toilet I would shout out something in a calm voice (I know its hard to stay calm). I think most of the time Jett was worried that I left him. So I felt that he just wanted to know I was there.
Size of crate - I think deep down this was my issue. I originally purchased a medium crate, by 6 months Jett was fairly big. The room was just not enough. I upgraded to an xl crate, which gave him room for a bed and an area to stretch out.
Newspaper - My advice is don't put newspapers down as that will encourage him to go inside. Don't use puppy pads in the crate either. My experience with Jett is that he hated going toilet in his crate and this would cause him to howl/bark and cry. In the end I never put anything in the crate that would encourage him.
Cover for crate - I make sure the crate in nice and dark and warm.
Toilet - I let him out for toilet at 9:45pm, bed at 10pm.
Jett is now 14 months old and seems very happy in his crate :D. I think he was around 7/8 months old when he stopped the noises (barking etc). He is always in be by 10pm and he will always wake at start moving at 6.45am :005: (on the dot). I would love for him to sleep until 8am but I don't think it will ever happen, i'm just happy I have my sleep back.
So keep at it, he is still young and you have got this far. As he is still so young his bladder will be small, so you probably will need to take him out in the night (don't make it fun for him). But this won't last long, I have a feeling he will soon adjust.
Good luck
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My wife has always been adamant that dogs sleep downstairs. So, when young Mason woke us and the other two dogs up, I would let them all go outside and then take them in the living room where we would all curl up on the sofa. It could have been setting up some bad habits, but I got most of a night's sleep and I didn't disturb my wife too much and, as I said, they stopped waking before me after a while anyway.
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They're just like children! :005:
Once waking in the night has become a habbit it's difficult to break and once you've got in the habbit of having to get up early your sleeping habbits change.
I've had this with Darwin last year, but he's nearly 9yr and it's for very different reasons For a year he was waking us at 2am most morning ( sleep howling/ pain howling ) and then again at 4am for a toilet break. We're now working to a better routine, very infrequent howling and he longer wakes st 4am. I'm also learning not to wake up at 4am! but we still need to dictate /manage his toileting routine.
It may be case of making sure your pup goes for his final wee before bed by either taking him out for a 10pm walk. ( I'm not looking forward to next week as OH is away for 10 days so I've got 10 days of 10pm walks) or walking him around the garden. The problem at the moment is it's so dark at 10pm if they go into the garden on their own you can't tell if they've gone.
Good luck
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We take Henry out for a pee in the garden sometime between 10 and 11pm, on the lead and with a torch so we can see what he is (or isn’t) doing! Thankfully he pretty much pees immediately as all he wants is to go back into his warm bed. I don’t blame him.
Six months is still very young. And they are all different, just like kids. Just another thought - is he comfortable in the crate, and does he have the sort of bed he likes? I think bizzylizzy said before that they took the door off Humphrey’s crate and made sure the room was safe when he was still quite young, and he was happier. Maybe your pup wants more room to spread out and that is waking him up? We have a HUGE crate for Henry with a large flat mattress-style bed as he stretches out completely to sleep. We have a gorgeous Tuffies oval bed with raised sides for him in the living room and he completely refuses to use it. He stretches out on the floor in front of it instead!
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Brilliant advice everyone. I can't thank you enough.
I know Scooby doesn't need to go to the loo in the middle of the night as we did have many weeks of sleeping 10:30pm to 6:30am.
He also always goes for a wee just before bed, either on his walk, or in the back garden.
So I guess I should persevere - and may try leaving the crate door open...
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First of all, take no notice of what other people say - all pups are different and people often exaggerate how well behaved/trained their dog actually is >:(
In the spirit of full disclosure, I’ll say Henry really does sleep for 12 hours every night in his crate but in many other regards he’s a complete pain in the proverbial. Sometimes you just have to accentuate the positive, as the song goes. ;)
Reckon I could forgive anything if my monster slept for 12 hours every night!!!!
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Titch did exactly this - we thought he had settled nicely to being in crate all night, then around 5.5 months he started howling at about 2 a.m. Of course I got up and let him out a few times, but soon realised that as it was dark I couldn't always see if he was doing anything or not. So started putting his lead on and walking him round the garden, not talking, no attention at all. Then straight back into his bed, no attention.
Realised that at most he was having a tiny wee, so decided to take him out about half hour later before (my) bedtime and then let him howl if he woke in the night. It was hard, and must be very difficult if you have close neighbours. However, I'm pretty sure it only took a few nights for him to settle again through til early (7-ish) morning again.
This is very reassuring. Not sure I have the confidence yet to let him have the run of the house (downstairs) during the night. I may leave the crate door open and see what happens...
Titch is 20 months now and has had the freedom of the house at night for about 9 months. He still chooses to sleep in his crate most nights, only occasionally choosing his daybed in front of the living room fire.
I've never let a dog sleep in my bedroom, and seeing the livestock (mainly slugs) and twigs he can bring in on his undercarriage after even a couple of minutes in the garden I'm not inclined to change that any time soon ;)
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Brilliant advice everyone. I can't thank you enough.
I know Scooby doesn't need to go to the loo in the middle of the night as we did have many weeks of sleeping 10:30pm to 6:30am.
He also always goes for a wee just before bed, either on his walk, or in the back garden.
So I guess I should persevere - and may try leaving the crate door open...
............and move any chairs that can be used to climb up and get to things you thought were out of reach, .....just speaking from experience!! :shades: :shades: :005:
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Hey Minky!
Just a thought....I noticed recently that Inca (biting diminishing nicely thanks ;)) has been a bit less keen to get in her bed at bedtime lately, and I wondered if she was cold. Think-moments before curled up next to me or the woodburner..so( yes you can all howl with laughter now)..I have started tucking her in. In can't believe I said that out loud.Hahaha Anyhow- she loves it!! Bed time is 10pm, milky bone, Gets in her bed with furry toys to keep out draughts and I tuck her little fleece blanket over her and she snuggles right down and straight to the land of nod. We have a blanket in the winter don't we? He may be waking up because he's a bit chilly- then once you're awake you need the loo. You could check that first.?
My pooch has a bed and an area in front of it about 3ft square with water bowl and a few toys that are safe to leave. A couple of weeks ago she had a funny tummy after a wormer and did make a little whine in the night. When I came down in the morning there was a poo. We said nothing, greeted her as normal and just cleared it up. I don't think it affected the housetraining. At the end of the day, they don't want to mess indoors so that behaviour shouldn't stick and an accident is an accident. Where, your dog thinking that it's ok to get you up in the night might stick as it is something he would probably quite like? I am no expert but just some thoughts I had.
Perhaps if you gave him the latest poss loo trip before bed then make him really cosy, with access to an area that isn't his bed just in case of emergency and leave him ? Might be worth a try :D
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Hey Digger
Sorry for the delayed response. I’ve not been on the forum for a while. We still have the odd night waking but I’ve been able to attribute it to no afternoon poo, which is really annoying as I can’t really ignore the barking!
We may have 2 in 7 disturbed nights, so I ignore his barks unless I suspect it’s a poo.
Little monkey!!!
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Ahh that's not so bad then. I'm sure with time it will all iron out! :D