Dyllan and recall

[Millomite]

The only physical contact I have had with my dog through training is picking it up by the scruff of the neck and putting it back where it was told or where I blew the whistle.

Why the unhappy face? Picking a dog up by the scruff of the neck doesnt hurt it at all. It's how I and many other lift their dogs over barbed wire etc

[supaspaniel]

The only physical contact I have had with my dog through training is picking it up by the scruff of the neck and putting it back where it was told or where I blew the whistle.

Why the unhappy face? Picking a dog up by the scruff of the neck doesnt hurt it at all. It's how I and many other lift their dogs over barbed wire etc

If you actually have to ask that question...... then I question why you have a dog if thats the only physical contact you have with your dog 

[Millomite]

The only physical contact I have had with my dog through training is picking it up by the scruff of the neck and putting it back where it was told or where I blew the whistle.

Why the unhappy face? Picking a dog up by the scruff of the neck doesnt hurt it at all. It's how I and many other lift their dogs over barbed wire etc

If you actually have to ask that question...... then I question why you have a dog if thats the only physical contact you have with your dog 

I mean in terms of disciplining it. As in not beating, hitting it etc in response to trainers using physical means. I spend hours with my dog when I'm at home with him. Brushing, playing etc.

[Cob-Web]

The only physical contact I have had with my dog through training is picking it up by the scruff of the neck and putting it back where it was told or where I blew the whistle.

Why the unhappy face? Picking a dog up by the scruff of the neck doesnt hurt it at all. It's how I and many other lift their dogs over barbed wire etc

I mean in terms of disciplining it. As in not beating, hitting it etc in response to trainers using physical means. I spend hours with my dog when I'm at home with him. Brushing, playing etc.

I know that is what you meant - my stands

[Millomite]

The only physical contact I have had with my dog through training is picking it up by the scruff of the neck and putting it back where it was told or where I blew the whistle.

Why the unhappy face? Picking a dog up by the scruff of the neck doesnt hurt it at all. It's how I and many other lift their dogs over barbed wire etc

I mean in terms of disciplining it. As in not beating, hitting it etc in response to trainers using physical means. I spend hours with my dog when I'm at home with him. Brushing, playing etc.

I know that is what you meant - my stands

Why though? What is wrong with picking the dog up and placing him back where I told him to stop? I do not shake him or rag him, just pick him up and put him back, and blow the stop whistle

[Cob-Web]

Why though? What is wrong with picking the dog up and placing him back where I told him to stop?

I think if you take the time to read back through the threads in this behaviour sub-forum, you will find the answer 

I am not alone in my preference to use positive training methods, rather than resorting to physically dominating, or frightening, my dog

[ali]

it is a huge comfort to hear others saying that trying to train through adolescence is almost an impossibility. up until about 5 months old, barkley could pick up new commands very quickly, but we pretty much assumed once adolescence kicked in that the best we can do is try to maintain what he knows already and then start up again once we have his attention back. 

our local trainers wont start gun dog training on any dog before they are one year old, and then it's judged on an individual basis.

[supaspaniel]

The only physical contact I have had with my dog through training is picking it up by the scruff of the neck and putting it back where it was told or where I blew the whistle.

Why the unhappy face? Picking a dog up by the scruff of the neck doesnt hurt it at all. It's how I and many other lift their dogs over barbed wire etc

I mean in terms of disciplining it. As in not beating, hitting it etc in response to trainers using physical means. I spend hours with my dog when I'm at home with him. Brushing, playing etc.

I know that is what you meant - my stands

I know thats what you meant. Physical praise is an excellent positive re-enforcer

[Millomite]

I'd be interested to know how you would deal with the problem. It's the only way I can think of of taking him back to the place where I blew the whistle and wanted him to stop. There is no malice in it, I just carry him by it

My dog has always been used to being picked up by the scruff of the nexk to lift over fences etc. He has no problem with it and I'd rather do this than to have him cut by barbed wire. Physically there should be no issues should there? After all, mothers often carry pups by the scruf of the neck when transporting them in the wild etc.

[supaspaniel]

I'd be interested to know how you would deal with the problem. It's the only way I can think of of taking him back to the place where I blew the whistle and wanted him to stop. There is no malice in it, I just carry him by it

My dog has always been used to being picked up by the scruff of the nexk to lift over fences etc. He has no problem with it and I'd rather do this than to have him cut by barbed wire. Physically there should be no issues should there? After all, mothers often carry pups by the scruf of the neck when transporting them in the wild etc.

The key word is puppies are picked up by the scruff. Not growing dogs. There own weight would hurt them.

Ignore the unwanted behaviour...walk the dog back to where you want it to be...physically praise gently...then start again. It is very hard demanding work tha requires an awful lot of patience, but worth it in the end because you enhance the dogs will to please. If you've chosen a pup from really good working line and create a good bond with your pup from the word go it all fall into place quite quickly.

Sorry I'm not having a go at you

[Millomite]

Dont apologise, all opinions are welcome. I found with lab that if I took him back by the scruff to the point I blew the whistle and blew the whistle again, he was far more responsive than when I tried putting him on the lead and taking him back to the spot.

I realise that different dogs will have different temperaments etc and some dogs may not benefit from this.

People I beat and Pick Up with regularly lift their dogs over fences by the scruff of the neck and not one of them whines or howls, so it can't be causing pain. They wag their tail regardless

[Jan/Billy]

I found with lab that if I took him back by the scruff to the point I blew the whistle and blew the whistle again, he was far more responsive than when I tried putting him on the lead and taking him back to the spot.

But just because it works doesn't mean it's the right way of doing it in my opinion. The dog may be more responsive using this method but that maybe becuase it knows that if it doesn't do what you want it to  then it experiences pain, so it does it out of fear. Personally I'd rather have a dog that learns through positive pleasurable experience and reward rather than fear 

[Millomite]

I found with lab that if I took him back by the scruff to the point I blew the whistle and blew the whistle again, he was far more responsive than when I tried putting him on the lead and taking him back to the spot.

But just because it works doesn't mean it's the right way of doing it in my opinion. The dog may be more responsive using this method but that maybe becuase it knows that if it doesn't do what you want it to  then it experiences pain, so it does it out of fear. Personally I'd rather have a dog that learns through pleasurable experience and reward rather than fear 

I accept your opinion. My dog doesnt fear me at all. He does anything and his tail is always going. I do not use the picking up as punishment, just a means of taking it back to where I wanted it to stop. The frequent use of picking it up by the scruff of the neck to lift over fences etc makes sure that picking it up using this method is not associated with fear

[Nicola]

I don't scruff Alfie to move him back into position but I have done it to lift him over fences (I grab the thick fur at the top of his tail as well to balance him) and he doesn't mind at all, in fact if he gets up high enough he tries to lick my face on the way past! I can absolutely 100% say he is not afraid or hurt when I do this because he is a wuss and will scream like a baby if he is hurt even a little bit but with this he just wags his tail.

I have also seen other very experienced gundog trainers scruff their dogs to move them back and while I don't do it with my dogs I don't have a huge issue with it. To me it's similar to things like using twitches on horses' upper lips (a loop of rope on the end of a stick which is twisted extremely tightly around the lip) to calm them when receiving vet treatment, it doesn't look very nice to us but it doesn't cause them any pain or distress. 

[supaspaniel]

Dont apologise, all opinions are welcome. I found with lab that if I took him back by the scruff to the point I blew the whistle and blew the whistle again, he was far more responsive than when I tried putting him on the lead and taking him back to the spot.

I realise that different dogs will have different temperaments etc and some dogs may not benefit from this.

People I beat and Pick Up with regularly lift their dogs over fences by the scruff of the neck and not one of them whines or howls, so it can't be causing pain. They wag their tail regardless

Yeah I know. The majority of the shooting world still have oldfashioned views about their dogs . My OH wont take his dogs to a certain shoot because of the amount of fences.

Labs and cockers are sooo diffferent. Cockers are much more sensitive and may react badly to something you can readily do with a lab. My OH has both and trained his lab, but came unstuck with his first cocker, so like I said cheated and sent his second to be trained professionally It was worth it tho. I dont have a problem with pickin a dog by the scruff and support it elsewhere for transportation, just dont think its a good idea for training a cocker

We've gone off the original topic now tho