One-on-one trainer came yesterday

[waisis]

I'm so excited as tomorrow Bailey and I will be having our first session with a one-on-one trainer  She was recommended by my doggy daycare person and she's spent quite a bit of time on the phone with me already...and that was before I had decided to go with her.   The main problem that I want to work on is with Bailey's on-leash lunging/barking at dogs.  I'm kinda at a standstill as I've been able to clicker-train him to the point where he'll pay attention to me and ignore the other dog if they are on the other side of the street (believe me, that's an improvement!).  But my goal is to be able to walk on the same sidewalk pass another dog without incident.  Will let you know how things go as I know some other people have similar problems with on-leash nuttiness with their dogs 

P.S. The trainer is charging me $90 CDN per hour which is about 40 pounds per hour for the consultation.  Does that sound like what other people have paid for a one-on-one trainer?

[PennyB]

Most of us are in the UK so don't know how Canada is --- mine charges something similar, well £50 (cheaper if you go to his training school though, £15 for a half hour)

1-2-1s are realy useful for training problems and well worth the money

[Rhona W]

I paid £50 for 2 hours with an ADPT trainer. I would be interested to hear what your trainer says as I have this problem with my boys. I always cross over the road if I see someone coming towards me on the same side.   

[Top Barks]

I'm so excited as tomorrow Bailey and I will be having our first session with a one-on-one trainer  She was recommended by my doggy daycare person and she's spent quite a bit of time on the phone with me already...and that was before I had decided to go with her.   The main problem that I want to work on is with Bailey's on-leash lunging/barking at dogs.  I'm kinda at a standstill as I've been able to clicker-train him to the point where he'll pay attention to me and ignore the other dog if they are on the other side of the street (believe me, that's an improvement!).  But my goal is to be able to walk on the same sidewalk pass another dog without incident.  Will let you know how things go as I know some other people have similar problems with on-leash nuttiness with their dogs 

P.S. The trainer is charging me $90 CDN per hour which is about 40 pounds per hour for the consultation.  Does that sound like what other people have paid for a one-on-one trainer?

Don't expect miracles, this will take time.
Just one bad reaction in february with douglas set me back about a year.
I see so many cases of this in my work and it is hard to convince people that their is no quick fix.
The price sounds reasonable.
best of luck.
Mark@topbarksfordogs.com

[waisis]

Bummer it was raining like crazy on Friday when the trainer was supposed to come and she called to re-schedule as she thought we wouldn't be seeing too many dogs out to see Bailey's reaction.  Won't get to work with her until next week.  I'm not expecting miracles, but just a more consistent way of approaching Bailey's problem.  I remember BEFORE Bailey was doing the barking/lunging thing how much more enjoyable walks can be when you don't have to scan the horizon for on-coming dogs! 

Even though it sounds like a common problem, so many dogs I see walking around are calm and lovely on-leash and then I feel like a dork as Bailey barks like a nut at them and they just go on like nothing is happening.  Maybe all the people with dogs that have Bailey's problem don't walk them or are good at avoiding us???!!!!
 
Sounds within the range of prices as you guys. 

[waisis]

So the one-on-one trainer came yesterday to work with me and Bailey and his on-leash barking problem.  It's been getting cold lately (-15 C with the wind chill) and we spent a good 40 minutes walking around looking for dogs to practice on, but only found one.  She also thought that Bailey wasn't dog-aggressive but had a problem with barrier frustration--which is what I thought too. 

She gave me some very specific things to do (and to stop doing with him) after observing us.  The main exercise I'm working on is the command "watch" and having Bailey look at my face.  I've been working on this already without other dogs around, but she wanted me to start with Bailey at a distance where he can see the dog, but hasn't reacted negatively to it (i.e., barking) and have him "watch".  And then to take another few steps towards the other dog and have him "watch" again and continue lessening the distance and doing "watch", but making sure to bail (i.e., by getting to a safe distance) BEFORE Bailey reacted.  She really stressed INTERRUPTING his forward momentum and excitement and also standing between him and the other dog to break his eye contact with the other dog if needed to help him pay attention to me.  She did think he was VERY food-motivated 

Overall, it also gave me a lot more confidence as I have a clear plan of exactly what to do and I will be glad to see other dogs so that I can practice, as opposed to the usual avoid and escape routine!  Will update you as Bailey and I progress.  Well, right now Bailey's barking at every little sound and driving me crazy as it's time for his before dinner walk    Gotta to go...

[Top Barks]

Sounds to me as your trainers advice was on the money, as that is where i would have started with this too.
It is hard but i try to set up  training situations that i can control as to when my dog meets another dog.
You have to try and make each interaction a positive one, and leaving it to chance sometimes leaves the dog in a position to fail.
A behaviourist friend of mine from the states gave me some good advice, and that was to use a points system to score how you're doing.
You must keep score of how you're doing!
Give your self 20 points for each positive interaction with another dog at whatever distance.
Minus 1000 points from your score for every negative or reactive interaction.
Your aim is to reach a total of 1000 points.
The points system really made me think about what Douglas could cope with and helped focus me into ensuring a positive outcome.
Yes I still lose my points now and again but hey, I'm only human
I would also try and find a non reactive distance where Bailey can look at the other dog without reacting and use a really high value reinforcer whilst looking at the other dog.
If he reacts then you have gone to far to soon.
The aim is to work closer and closer as he can cope.
It is great when you get results with this type of behaviour.
I have had some big succesess and some major set backs with various dogs,and it may take time but follow the advice and persevere as the results in my experience be very positive indeed.
Mark
PS - 15 and I thought working my dogs in 5 degrees was cold at the weekend

[Rhona W]

You must keep score of how you're doing!
Give your self 20 points for each positive interaction with another dog at whatever distance.
Minus 1000 points from your score for every negative or reactive interaction.
Your aim is to reach a total of 1000 points.

Please tell me you have put too many zeros on the amount you take away for  a negative reaction. 
Casper saw 7 dogs at a distance this morning (the other side of the field) and didn't bark at any of them. Which gives us 140 points. 
But barked at one tonight on the other side of the street. That would put us on -860. 
We'd never reach 1000 at that rate. 

[waisis]

I'm keeping a little training journal and the points system is a nice way of thinking about it too!  I thought about putting it on here but it would be way too boring...even my OH gets tired of hearing about every interaction Bailey has with other dogs on his walks    I'll just post the periodic updates. In terms of the points, so since Friday we are at...-1920!!!!  Yes, that's negative 1920, Rhona W, you are doing much better than us!    Please tell me it's -100 not -1000 for each reactive interaction...

Tonight was a good practice night though as there were more dogs out on-leash.  I was following this lady today with her dog and getting Bailey closer and closer and to watch me.  It was going really well until I made the mistake of thinking she had rounded the corner and she decided to turn around and basically stare at us.  Well I guess you would too if some person was following you around and stopping and going with their dog.  By now I had messed up as Bailey was barking and being a little nut as it was too close for him and I yelled out "I'm trying to work on him not barking when he sees another dog".  Her reaction was kinda surprising to me...she looked at us and went "awwww" in that "he's so cute" voice!  First of all, it's not that cute to have your dog barking and spinning around on his leash and second of all, if Bailey was a bigger dog or "one of THOSE breeds", I'm sure she would NOT have said "aw".  People can be very strange...

Top Barks, what are some suggestions for setting up the training situation where you can control when your dog meets another dog? 

[Rhona W]

Waisis I know exactly where you are coming from! 

My OH is bored by the hearing about how our walks went.   And he'd much rather focus on the negative meetings than the positive ones. 

I was rather hoping it was only minus 10 points for a negative reaction.  Even at minus 100, we are never going to make it into positive figures. 

And you are so right about people thinking it funny because they are small, cute looking dogs. 

Try not to feel bad about getting too close to the woman last night. It is easily done as you can't predict other people's movements. I often walk in the opposite direction to people over the fields if Casper starts barking, only to have them follow me. 

Good luck. And I really hope Mark comes back on line to tell us he put to many zeros on his post.     

[Top Barks]

You must keep score of how you're doing!
Give your self 20 points for each positive interaction with another dog at whatever distance.
Minus 1000 points from your score for every negative or reactive interaction.
Your aim is to reach a total of 1000 points.

Please tell me you have put too many zeros on the amount you take away for  a negative reaction. 
Casper saw 7 dogs at a distance this morning (the other side of the field) and didn't bark at any of them. Which gives us 140 points. 
But barked at one tonight on the other side of the street. That would put us on -860. 
We'd never reach 1000 at that rate. 

No not too many zeros
It really focussed me on setting us up to succeed.
It's not supposed to be easy, but it just goes to show how one negative reaction by your dog can set it  back.
-860  Been there, and lower.
Still not reached 1000 points myself in two years, but I lose them a lot more infrequently than I used to.
Mark

[Top Barks]

Top Barks, what are some suggestions for setting up the training situation where you can control when your dog meets another dog? 

Douglas and Bayley were quite reactive on lead but for different reasons.
Bayley, like Bailey was barrier frustrated and Douglas was truly fearful of other dogs.
I have worked on classical conditioning with Douglas by trying to pair the scary doggies with something he is really fond of. (chicken or pigs ears etc)
I work at a distance he can cope with and feed or positvely interact with him just being around the other dog.
I have gradually worked closer and closer.
Had him spot on this february and became overconfident in him and had a major set back when a Belgian Terv ran straight at him.
Douglas reacted and did his drowning seal impression, it was if the confidence had just vanished from him.(We lost all our hard earned points that day and it had taken me 18 months to get him to the stage he was at.)
We are back on track again now ,but he's not back to the level he was yet.
With Bayley I chose the operant route and clicked him for any calm reaction around other dogs.
I wanted him to learn how to behave on leash in the presence of other dogs.
I had him at a none reactive distance and clicked him for everytime he glanced at the other dogs or did something for me.
I used hand touch and various exercises to get his focus on me on cue.
When it comes to clients dogs I use one of my own dogs Oliver as a stooge dog. Oliver, I know will not react to another dog barking and lunging at him.
Oliver gives very good calming signals and will just sniff the ground or look away in a bid to diffuse the clients dogs arousal.
But again we try and work at a distance where the clients dog will not react.
We use a mixture of classical and operant conditioning techniques to work on the dog's issues.
I try never to do more than the dog can cope with and have to warn the owners that their is often no quick fix.
You cannot rush behaviour modifcation.
Have you any friends with calm dogs who could help?
Enlist them and set up meetings where you know you can win and reward your dog around others would be my advice.
Best of luck
Mark

[Rhona W]

No not too many zeros
It really focussed me on setting us up to succeed.
It's not supposed to be easy, but it just goes to show how one negative reaction by your dog can set it  back.
-860  Been there, and lower.
Still not reached 1000 points myself in two years, but I lose them a lot more infrequently than I used to.
Mark

Well this morning he saw two dogs and barked at them both. -2860.   
That means we have to have 143 good meetings just to get back to zero. I know it's not supposed to be easy, but that makes it seem impossible. When I was only counting 7 non reactions to one bad one it made me feel a lot more positive. 

Can I ask what 'barrier frustration' is?  Although I think Casper is just scared of everything whether on lead or off. 

[waisis]

Rhona W, even though Bailey barks at other dogs just like Casper, he's not scared of them.  In fact, his motivation is probably the opposite of Casper who sounds like he barks to tell the other dogs to go away.  Bailey wants to meet them...REALLY bad.  Hope I'm describing this properly, but our trainer said Bailey was basically throwing a "tantrum".  He doesn't have the freedom to meet the dogs he sees because of his leash (the barrier) and then his excitement/energy turn into frustration and agitation which manifests in barking, lunging, and aggressive behaviour depending on how bad the barrier frustration is for a given dog.  Fences and being behind glass windows are also good examples of common barriers that can drive a dog like Bailey nutty.  Casper sounds like Top Bark's Douglas and Bailey sounds like Bayley.  Something about that name 

Top Barks, yonks! 2 years and you (a professional trainer) still haven't reached 1000!  Now I know where to aim...low.  "Drowning seal impression"!!!!  Trying to picture what exactly that sounds like