Urgent help

[Pilki]

Please can somebody advise, Yesterday I took Ollie for a walk and when we came back he really couldn't settle, was really restless up and down scratching at the carpet.  Eventually he did settle and was more relaxed, this morning when i got up he was fine.  Just recently though he has started mouthing a lot more barking and being really naught, nicking socks, when you try to get the socks out of his mouth his jaw is really locked soiled and I have a job to get them out.  This morning I decided to treat him and gave him a bone a chicken flavoured bone.  Hes normally good with these and I Can take them off him at any time.  This morning he'd taken it in to his cage and I went to get it and he growled at me and barked and scared me.  Normally he wouldn't do this, I'm so scared that he will go for some body I really don't know what to do. 

Lesley

[8 Hairy Feet]

Is there a reason for you to
take it off him?
Personally I don't try to take
anything off Ellie unless it
is something dangerous ,she has
never guarded anything but if
I've given her something I don't take
it back off her because it's hers.
steffxxx

[Pilki]

There was no reason why i took it off him, In the end
I took it off him because he growled and barked at me and I suppose he scared me.  I was just so shocked because he as never done this before.  I really don't want him to be like that.

[MaggieR]

How old is he?

[8 Hairy Feet]

Have you looked at the threads
in "behaviour" for resouce guarding;
As I say luckily for us it's not been
a problem but I do know that it's
not unusual.
I'm sure CoL folk who can explain how
to proceed will be along to advise you,
I hope you can get sorted!
steffxxx

[Neon]

I'm sure he's growling at you because he doesn't want his tasty bone taken off him.  It's a bit like someone trying to take a bar of chocolate off me - I would tell them to go away (not that politely though).  Toby has hide chews and when he gets down to only having a smallish piece left which he could choke on, I get his doggie chocs and do a trade with him, otherwise he would never let me get it off him (and he does growl a bit if I try and take a treat off him, but all he's doing is telling me, in his own way, that he's not parting with his treat).

[SJP]

My Golden Retriever (long gone to the bridge) used to do that when he had a bone.  He was the most gentle loving soul, never barked or growled at any one/thing except when he had a bone it was his bone and you did not try and take it away, because he'd let you know that he was not a happy boy about that happening.
I agree with Neon about trading .

[Karma]

Physically trying to remove items from a dog's mouth is the best way to create a dog who resource guards... 

Train a "give" and use treats to swap for stolen items.  Cockers are gundogs and it is in their nature to pick things up... you should praise him for doing this and encourage him to want to bring them to you.

As far as guarding the bone goes, I'm not honestly suprised by his reaction.  He had a tasty treat and you tried to take it off him for no reason whatsoever...    He is learning not to trust you near him while he has something he prizes, so is warning you to go away...

You need to change tack completely... when he has something he prizes, give him EXTRA treats... so he associates your presence with a bonus rather than a threat... eventually, yes, you should be able to ask a dog to give you things, so that you can remove a dangerous item in an emergency... but this should be acheived through a relationship of trust, not by randomly forcing him to hand things over... 

[Pilki]

Ollie is 8 months 1 week. I have just given him his bone back, he's now put it on the chair and wont even let me anywhere near it. Not even with a bribe really at my wits end now.

[Danni and Freya]

Are you serious? Youve just caused upset by taking it, you give it back then expect him to swap it again straight away no quibble? Poor pup must be really confused

[MaggieR]

please read the post from Karma - you've had some really good advise.  Just relax right now and let Ollie relax as well... let him have his treat knowing that you're not going to take it from him.

[Karma]

Ollie is 8 months 1 week. I have just given him his bone back, he's now put it on the chair and wont even let me anywhere near it. Not even with a bribe really at my wits end now.

Don't go anywhere near it then.

He needs to learn to trust you.  Stay at the opposite end of the room, and throw treats towards him, then walk away.  Do not even try and touch the bone for the rest of the day.  Give him space - his adrenelin is already racing from your earlier altercations (it can take several days for adrenelin levels to return to normal) so he will be more wary than he might otherwise be.

There isn't an overnight solution to this - in his eyes you have been a constant threat to anything he has by prising things out of his mouth and taking his favourite treats away - it will take time to rebuild some trust so that he realises you are not a threat.

[SteveB]

We have two GSD's and two Cockers and have never had a problem. We have 4 hollow bones that we give them with peanut butter frozen inside when we go out and the first thing Andrea and myself do when we get in is round up the bones and never had a growl (they are usually under my desk after the Cockers have stolen them off the GSD's) . We can move their food bowls while eating (as they have their food together on a flagstone floor in the kitchen and the bowls get moved all over the place while eating) and its just accepted. The dogs have been known to growl at a new pup if they wander to close while eating but when they have all finished they all swap bowls for a good lick. Do not really know what we do but it works.
Sorry I can't be of more help   

[seaangler]

A lot of people will agree and disagree on this subject of guarding....A lot of people in the field  i have ask say they do take there food away from there young pup so they get humanized....One saying never bite the hand that feeds you....If you wont a dog tol bite leave your dog to get on with his food/bone and to carry on guarding it...My opinion only...

I have always taken food away from all my dogs and are gemma from a young pup...And she easy with it and she will let the others also eat from her bowl (if they are quick enough)I will not have an issue of any of my dogs growling when they are eating ones food...I will block if necessary if one dog Finnish first and goes to another bowl...Peggy does growl a bit but she puts up with it she will back away..I will come in and block hold my hand up and say no to let Peggy carry on eating....

farmers and friends i associate with all have said they can take any thing away from there animals....Different scenario with a dog with other dogs around ware the guarding issue is a different kettle of fish...While eating a bone..


Physically trying to remove items from a dog's mouth is the best way to create a dog who resource guards... (Are you not doing this with tuggy games!!!)

(((Nicking socks, when you try to get the socks out of his mouth his jaw is really locked soiled and I have a job to get them out))).

 Are gemma is the worlds biggest thiefth in are house she does exsatly what you are saying.....But we up trade with one of her toys or a treat she soon stops and drops the scock shoe slipper trainer box of tissue news paper magazine remote contral dirty linen out the basket ...I have never at to take any thing out gemmas mouth she has always dropped it on the exchange...So i would say do the same....can but try....

Quote... This morning I decided to treat him and gave him a bone a chicken flavoured bone.  Hes normally good with these and I Can take them off him at any time.  This morning he'd taken it in to his cage and I went to get it and he growled at me and barked and scared me.  Normally he wouldn't do this, I'm so scared that he will go for some body I really don't know what to do.  

All i can say is over the years and some twenty or so dogs later..I have never had an issue with any of my dogs that will growl if they have a bone taken away from them....BUT saying that are Cindy is an old girl and does have a grumble from time to time and will growl at the cat if she has a chew in her mouth....But A who would not at an age of 88 years
 old...

I am not going to get in to a argument over this( i will state my case and leve it at that and will not post again)....

[fr1day]

I agree that it can be very distressing to have your dog growl at you, especially if you're not used to having a breed that is so driven by food. I've always had GSD who didn't give a monkeys about food, treats or bones and would let me do whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. So when we got our first cocker it was a massive shock the first time I gave her a bone and she turned into this snarling little demon!

Karma has given you some excellent advice, it is important to understand from the point of view of your dog why they are growling at you. You have given him a high value treat, taken it off him, given it back to him and then put him in a compromising position where he is nervous you will try to take it off him again.

I only give bones, rawhide chews etc. to my dogs when I'm prepared to let them have it for a couple of hours. For the first 30 min of having a bone, my female won't let me come anywhere near her and I certainly don't try to. I've had to learn to let her have her own space, and I've also learned the signs of when she's grown tired of the chew and is simply still eating it because she doesn't want to let it go. When she gets to this point she will let me swap the bone for something equally high value (normally cheese), at which point the bone gets put away until next time. Also I always let her watch me put the bone away so that she doesn't just think it's disappeared into the ether.

Cockers are funny little things, it's important to remember that your Ollie growling at you over a bone does not make him a nasty dog, he is sending you very clear signals that he is uncomfortable with your behavior, and if you continue to ignore these then you run the risk of entrenching the resource guarding behavior.

Hope that helps, and try searching for other threads on resource guarding and you'll find loads more helpful advice!