HELP PLEASE. Desperate plea for advice / reassurance...

[Helen]

can I explain why I think this trainer has made things worse?

The trainer has put in a set of commands ("bah" etc) which Oscar is listening to so you can stop him barking and growling.

However by stopping Oscar barking and growling this has basically taken away his 'warning' system so he goes straight from "I'm not happy" to "I'm going to bite" without the intermediate barking/growling warning of "I'm really not comfortable with this, please stay away from me" 

I really would get a good behaviourist/rescue to assess him as apart from what you've said we really can't see his behaviour and can only make guesses (like I have) of what could be happening

[Jane S]

carly please dont be upset when people say  that  some people should not be used i had same issues with a collie eventualy diognosed with rage by vets and had to be put to sleep i know exactly what its like when you pay out alot of money for training etc and  people are saying oh you shouldnt have gone with this 1 etc its not positive help and all it makes you feel is that you have failed and this realy isnt true you have done the best you can unfortunatly we dont all have access to these trainers etc and  sometimes we havent found sites like this for advice until it is to late realy feel for you big hugs anne

Your comments are quite unfair I feel. We are all trying to be helpful here but it's not always constructive to put a positive gloss on everything. Of course Carly has done her very best - nobody is criticising her but if nobody mentions the shortcomings of the franchise she used, how will she & other people reading this forum ever know? If I was her, I'd want to know why the expensive trainer's techniques hadn't worked - if anything it should make her feel that it isn't her fault for not making the techniques work because she now knows they would never have worked for her boy's issues.

[dipsydoodlenoodle]

carly please dont be upset when people say  that  some people should not be used i had same issues with a collie eventualy diognosed with rage by vets and had to be put to sleep i know exactly what its like when you pay out alot of money for training etc and  people are saying oh you shouldnt have gone with this 1 etc its not positive help and all it makes you feel is that you have failed and this realy isnt true you have done the best you can unfortunatly we dont all have access to these trainers etc and  sometimes we havent found sites like this for advice until it is to late realy feel for you big hugs anne

Your comments are quite unfair I feel. We are all trying to be helpful here but it's not always constructive to put a positive gloss on everything. Of course Carly has done her best - nobody is criticising her but if nobody mentions the shortcomings of the franchise she used, how will she & other people reading this forum ever know?

I didn't get the impression anneclarke was being mean in her comments, I think she was tring to reassure the OP that don't feel bad as you've used a trainer that someone doesn't like/wouldn't recommend.

To the original post. You could try just one more trainer, but then if that doesn't help then there is no benefit, but then if you've used a less good trainer (through no fault of your own I may add) then someone else may be perfect for you. Ultimately the decision is yours and only you can decide.  

[Jane S]

I didn't get the impression anneclarke was being mean in her comments, I think she was tring to reassure the OP that don't feel bad as you've used a trainer that someone doesn't like/wouldn't recommend.

I didn't say she was being mean - just not being fair in criticising other members for pointing out why the expensive franchise trainer would not have helped. And it's really not just a case of "someone" not liking this franchise - they have a poor reputation generally.

Anyway, moving on .. let's get back on topic Carly, if you would like a good behaviourist recommendation, just give a rough idea of the area where you live & hopefully someone can help.

[anneclarke]

in response if you had read my comments i wasnt being mean i have been in this exact position unlike some people.I know what it feels like to be there and spent not hundreds but thousands on trainers vets etc .What you dont relise is how the person feels and this is whom i am suporting in this its good to name and shame bad trainers behaviourists etc and their treatments methods maybe a seperate thread for these people should be made as its before this point is reached that help is needed but at the end of the day if you have never been there you will never understand.It has taken me 3 years before i could even look at having another dog so please dont say i am mean or i dont understand i am so sorry Carly this has happend on your post asking for support big hugs anne

[carly_cl]

Im in the north east, near middlesbrough. The trainer with barkbuster has now changed to another lady, would it be worth trying her? We are paid up in that respect. The problem is my OH who adores Oscar seems to be resigned to him going where I am on the verge of giving him another shot. The problem is at the moment im totally on edge with him, i couldnt get in my kitchen all day yesterday i was having visions of having to have someone sedate him it was so bad. Today i wantto be with him but i cant because with my little boy And i have never got to this point before. Unfortunately barkbusters were recommended by our vet, so we hought it was the best option. Yes i do feel like i have let him down, but on the other hand i dont know what we coul have done differently as in many ways he is very obedient and we hve trained him to be like that. I apologise for error/spelling as my fingers are too fat for my phone!!

[carly_cl]

Thankyou anne, your words are so kind i really do appreciate it. Im the same if Oscar goes I couldnt get another dog for fear of this xx

[jaybee]

You can't change what has happened in the past. It is difficult, but we can't dwell on past decisions, it does no good what so ever.

If you are considering giving it one last go i would completely forget about going with barkbusters, even if you are paid up for life. Hopefully someone will be along shortly to make some suggestions. If it were me I would give it one last go with a different trainer/behaviourist. 

I wish you all the best in whatever decision is eventually made. I cannot begin to imagine how difficult this must be for you.

[Helen]

They're all trained the same way at Barkbusters and follow the same rules.  It's a franchise 

If you did want to go down the path of another behaviourist please look at this site.

http://www.apdt.co.uk/

[Jan D]

Hi Carly - I also live close to Middlesbrough and have sent you a personal message with some detials of my vet who I highly recommend and may be worth contacting. Good luck with whatever you decide

[anneclarke]

my heart goes out to you i too tried and tried it feels like you are such a failier and you certainly are not my husband was the same but when you are cornered with a dog in attack mode and the vet rushes round and has to sedate it was that bad the vet said nothing more could and it was decided from all partys and behaviouist now years later i am pleased that we all made that desision as i would never have forgiven myself if i had handed him over and he had attcked and maimed or worse but thats just my thoughts i am not saying this is the case in all dogs before i am slated but i dint have choice and on reflection now i think it was right for my dog as well I now have got 8 month cocker which is my pride and joy time does heal but i still get upset and cry as you will to if you need to chat about anything pm me  hugs anne

[JohnK]

We had the same problem with a cocker we rescued. We had lost Danny, our ESS on 11th May and picked Brodie up on 12th May. He was fine when we first got him, but over the 5 weeks we had him his behaviour became more and more unpredictable and we had to return him.

A behaviourist checked him over and was attacked twice and on the vets recommendation he was pts.

I know its a subject that many feel does not exist, but they said he had rage. It was like a switch was turned on and he became another dog, but when it went off he was fine again. I was scared of him at times and I am sure he realised this, but he never had us locked in or out of rooms. I have had had 7 spaniels and Brodie is the only one I have had a problem with, but when he was good he was very good, but 1% of the time he scared me and snapped at me, my wife and my son. He also fought with our other dog, Minnie and savagely attacked Jess, my daughters cocker more than once. He seemed to be good with my 4 year old granddaughter, but I could not risk him turning on her and maiming her for life.

Although we were distraught when we found out what had happened to him, at least he is now at peace and he never actually bit and maimed anybody.

Its 8 weeks since I took him back and 3 weeks since I found out he had been PTS, but I still think about him every day and wonder ..... what if?.........

I cried every day until I found out he had been PTS, but even though that hurt like hell, it gave me closure, but it resulted in me having to prescribed anti depressants to help me lead some sort of normal life again.

I am a lot better now, but the GP feels I'll need to stay on medication for some time yet and last night my wife said she feels I am getting back to my old self again, but believe me, if I could have done anything to have saved Brodie I would

[anneclarke]

thoughts are with you jmkenn it does get a little easier but when problems like these comes up it always brings it all back

[Helen]

Each situation is different and without direct contact, behavioural consultation and neurological tests we cannot simply judge on a website what is happening with Oscar.

My heart goes out to people that have had to have their dogs PTS but we as a forum cannot say from reading posts that a dog is suffering from what, when it comes down to it, is a very very rare disorder.  My heart goes out to Carly as well as this is a really awful situation.

No-one here is criticising  - we are trying to offer constructive advice (particularly about the behavioural advice she has received to date) which, at the end of the day, could mean life or death for this spaniel.

If I were Carly I would forget about Barkbusters, and also change vets and get Oscar fully checked out health wise (especially thyroid).  As the trust has gone I would also be looking at speaking to cocker savvy rescues.

[Ruby Tuesday]

Sorry to read your post Carly, you are in such a horrible situation. I think you have received some good ideas from some very experienced owners/breeders and I hope they will help.

I absolutely understand that your son is your priority, and so he should be. I just wonder if it might be worth trying one more behaviourist. It seems that more than one person on here know about the methods used by Barkbusters and think they may have made things worse. If you could get a recommendation from someone on here, it may be worth a try. You really would have tried everything then. and there would be no 'what ifs....'.

I would understand whichever path you chose, and I wish you luck. I wondered if you could put Oscar into kennels for a few days just while you have a think, but I have never used them and I don't know if they would take a dog with these issues.