Author Topic: Confused - Updated  (Read 4454 times)

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Offline bibathediva

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Re: Confused
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2009, 03:57:56 PM »

Whatever vet you choose i would just make it clear what you want....you don't really need behavioural advise from them...leave that to the people who are trained for that...but you do need a vet referral for a behaviourist to work with your dog and any decent behaviourist will ask for this before they see your dog..
When i had a behaviourist out for my 2 i just went to the vets and said * i have a few issues with Biba (my eldest dog) which i would like a behaviourist to come and assess,could you please give Biba a thorough examination so i know her issues are not medically related and could you also sign my referral form for the behaviourist * try that see if it works  ;) sometimes you do have to be very clear cut with vets so they know exactly where you are coming from and where you want to go  ;)
Good luck

Offline mofi

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Re: Confused
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2009, 08:31:28 AM »
What a weight off my shoulders.  After getting the recommendation from Top Barks of a Behaviourist in the area I felt I knew the right way forward and went out bouncing on my walk with Alfie.

Then I went to Dog Training last night and the Behaviour Trainer there had some news for me.  She has referred me to a Recognised Specialist in Veterinary Behavioural Medicine at a nearby university.  I have loads of forms to fill in and have to get my Vet to fill in a couple too (back to No 1, I think).  I have looked at the website and they do a range of tests first to rule out any medical conditions then will help with the behaviour, which is exactly what I wanted. 

As she has known Alfie from 14 weeks and knows that his behaviour is not getting any better on top of the fact that she knows my OH is going to be working out of the country for 4 months come the end of June she said she felt like she had to get the ball rolling for me as it would be hard for me on my own....especially being the sensitive sort  :embarassed:

So fingers crossed all will get sorted.......just have to wade through the many questions now and make sure I put down as much detail as possible.   :blink:
Lottie 05.07.09
Riley 23.10.10

Offline Sarah.H

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Re: Confused
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2009, 10:25:00 AM »
I'm glad things are now moving in the right direction for you  :blink:. Alfie sounds a bit similar to Millie in that she can be dominant with other dogs and a bit fear aggressive with people. I too had to change vets as my previous one started banging on about rage and dominance because she snapped at them when the were giving her an anesthetic, even though I told the vet she has fear aggression and would need a muzzle  >:( >:(.

With other dogs I let her interact as she wants when off lead but not when on lead as she's more reactive. When on lead I constantly treat for calm behaviour (like when at training classes). Off lead I call her back and play fetch if the other dog looks like it has a similar temperament/body language (squaring up to each other) or her body language looks like its getting aggressive/dominant. If its a playfull puppy then I don't worry too much as she'll correct any bad manners, but again if it gets too much then I'll recall her and play fetch. With people I found the crucial thing was to tell people not to make eye contact and definitely do not lean over her! I got as many as I could to ask her to sit and then give her a treat, once they had been introduced and fed her she was ok. I also found Brenda Aloffs Canine Body Language extremely usefull to tell when she is getting stressed or nervous.

Millie

Offline mofi

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Re: Confused
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2009, 12:46:59 PM »
Gosh Millie does sound like Alfie.   :blink:  I do all the things you do but will definately have a look at the book you recommended as sometimes I miss the warning signs with his body language.  The dog side of things I think I can cope with because it's not too often and Alfie's recall is very good.  It's with people I really need help with as his behaviour seems to be getting worse even though I have tried all the things that have been suggested to me. 

Take this morning for instance, a jogger came out of nowhere when I was walking down a quiet lane and Alfie ran up to him barking and chasing him nipping at his heels  >:D  The bloke leaned over him trying to stroke him, so of course Alfie got worse.  I had to tell the man to please don't do that and call Alfie back to me.  Luckily he was very good humoured about it and accepted my apology but obviously if I don't get help soon, Alfie might have to stay on lead all the time and possibly muzzled.  I really don't want to have to keep him on a lead as he so enjoys his runs off and gets 2 good ones a day.  I just find myself going to more remote areas which is not good as it isn't helping with his socialisation.  So it seems a vicious circle!

Then on the other hand Alfie will surprise me and cope quite well.  For instance we went to a local dog show 2 weeks ago which was in an enclosed area, lots of people and dogs and Alfie was on his best behaviour.  I must admit my OH and I were dreading it but it just goes to show they can be so unpredictable!   :lol2:
Lottie 05.07.09
Riley 23.10.10

Offline SimonandMandy

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Re: Confused
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2009, 01:28:07 PM »
When I read all of the posts about this I see so much of Harvey in what you describe.  Harvey lacks confidence with people he has not met before even though he was well socialised from a pup, again he likes to make the first contact, shies away from anyone who tries to stroke him and will bark at people we stop to talk to or who come to the house that he does not know.  With each of these situations it can be a hurry up bark (which is the norm) to the way he has been approached i.e. hand coming towards his face by a stranger or the just the plain fact that he has been ignored.

We constantly work with Harvey on his confidence levels and manners and having recently joined flyball are amazed at how much his confidence is growing in such a short space of time - at the beginning he wouldn't go to anyone for the ball, he progressed to going to a female and now happily goes to a male.  Even his excitement barking has settled a lot.  Ultimately we know that Harvey will never be an affectionate dog to all strangers but we are not concerned by this.


In terms of behaviour with other dogs this can range from no interest or complete submission to being the dominant one all depending on how well he knows the other dog to how the dog has approached him or has tried to play with him so again we are not worried by this.


Offline phoenix

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Re: Confused
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2009, 04:29:07 PM »
Harvey's friend Bobby is another "stroppy"cocker! He has taken a long time to mature (2 now) and on his own terms is fine. When he decided to 'own' the piece of agility equipment he'd been practising on, the trainer gave a terrific instant class demonstration on how to de-stress him,stay put, turn sideways, look big, ignore him and then he cheekily wagged his tail and came to me, protest over.
 My vet says not to neuter.
I have to ask people to ignore him, though he hasn't over-reacted to being patted by strangers for ages. Then he comes up for attention when brave enough. He is however, fine with dogs. Is yours better when off the lead with them?
Anyone who says cocker rage would get a bit of mine!
RIP Marti  the EPI springer age 12,  and beloved black cocker Bobby, 8 yrs old, too soon, from PLN.
Now owned by TInker, tiny hairy grey poodle/terrier rescue from Greece and Jack, local rescue,   scruffy ginger terrier mutt.

Offline mcphee

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Re: Confused
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2009, 07:51:30 PM »
I have found all of this so interesting. I imagined dog ownership would on balance be a pleasure, but have learnt how difficult it could be. I do not think Rufus matured until he was 4.He was neutered at 17 months. He still has mad cocker moments, barks at people, hedgehogs, dogs, cats, leaves etc through the window, and barks in a ferocious manner when he is playing with certain dogs. His recall is improving very slowly. He has anxiety /fear issues with about 6 dogs and a very small number of people. He did not respond to the leave command and  chased cyclists or paper boys, until he was 3. Only in the last 6 months has it been safe to open the front door without him rushing out to chase squirrels. I didn't know about behaviourists during this time, and was reduced to tears on many occasions. Nothing could have prepared me as a first time dog owner for all of this. It was soul destroying seeing all the other dogs behaving sensibly at training, with my dog off the wall. Although much calmer, he is still not totally reliable, and I have to be very patient with him. I can see how people might give up. The only other dog in his litter of 8 had to be rehomed, and this always made me feel nervous. I am pleased I persevered. Perhaps it would have been quicker if I had had behaviourist help. I hope you find a solution, although I can only offer my best wishes.

Offline mofi

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Re: Confused
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2009, 03:11:48 PM »
Thank you all for sharing your stories with me and letting me know that I am not on my own with Alfie's behavioural issues.  You have all been wonderful and I am so pleased I found COL.   :D

Just to keep you all up to date.  I had a phone call yesterday evening from the new Vets that I went to (and quickly walked away from)!.  The Vet who is taking a Behavioural degree had read my letter and was very understanding of my problems with Alfie and understood why I walked away from her Vets but said she would be there if at any time I needed help in the future.  Her recommendation was NOT to get Alfie castrated and she would have recommended me to the same Behaviourist that my Dog Training Classes have.  Finally a Vet that knew what she was talking about  ::)  At least I know who to ask and see if I have any hassle with my original Vets signing the referral form.......hopefully know about that next week.

Anyway I have the task of filling in my side of the forms now and believe me every question you can think of is on there, so I need to make sure I remember every detail and get it down right.   
Lottie 05.07.09
Riley 23.10.10

Offline Top Barks

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Re: Confused
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2009, 03:24:41 PM »
Glad you are getting this sorted! do you mind me asking who you are seeing? PM me if you don't want to post it on the forum, but if not no worries.
Mark

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
Member of The Association Of Pet Dog Trainers (00977)
 
Check out my website http://www.topbarks.co.uk/  www.yorkdogtrainer.co.uk

Offline mofi

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Re: Confused
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2009, 03:38:45 PM »
Of course I don't mind.  I am grateful for your recommendation but as this will be a Vet Referral I can at least claim some of the cost back on my insurance. 

His name is Prof Daniel Mills, BSVSc PHd MIBiol ILTM MRCVS.  His title is RCVS Recognised Specialist in Veterinary Behavioural Medincine at the Animal Behaviour Clinic, University of Lincoln.

Thanks again for your help  :blink:
Lottie 05.07.09
Riley 23.10.10

Offline Top Barks

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Re: Confused
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2009, 03:40:17 PM »
You won't get much better!

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
Member of The Association Of Pet Dog Trainers (00977)
 
Check out my website http://www.topbarks.co.uk/  www.yorkdogtrainer.co.uk

Offline Beth

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Re: Confused
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2009, 04:04:10 PM »
Thank you all for sharing your stories with me and letting me know that I am not on my own with Alfie's behavioural issues.  You have all been wonderful and I am so pleased I found COL.   :D

Just to keep you all up to date.  I had a phone call yesterday evening from the new Vets that I went to (and quickly walked away from)!.  The Vet who is taking a Behavioural degree had read my letter and was very understanding of my problems with Alfie and understood why I walked away from her Vets but said she would be there if at any time I needed help in the future.  Her recommendation was NOT to get Alfie castrated and she would have recommended me to the same Behaviourist that my Dog Training Classes have.  Finally a Vet that knew what she was talking about  ::)  At least I know who to ask and see if I have any hassle with my original Vets signing the referral form.......hopefully know about that next week.

Anyway I have the task of filling in my side of the forms now and believe me every question you can think of is on there, so I need to make sure I remember every detail and get it down right.   

How wonderful that you've found an understanding vet. I hope the behaviourist can help you. :-*
Owned by Jarvis (Cocker), and Lucy (Cavalier).

Offline mofi

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Re: Confused
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2009, 04:58:40 PM »
You won't get much better!

Good to know I am seeing someone who is good and can hopefully help me  :blink:
Lottie 05.07.09
Riley 23.10.10

Offline mofi

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Re: Confused
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2009, 05:01:25 PM »
You won't get much better!

Sorry I meant to quote Top Barks in my last post.   :blink:  You can tell I'm new to this  ::)
Lottie 05.07.09
Riley 23.10.10

Offline bibathediva

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Re: Confused
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2009, 07:39:33 PM »

Glad you have found someone who can help.....let us know how you get on  ;)