What should I do?

[hoover]

Ollie has been pretty good for a while now but he freaked out on fireworks night and bit me without warning. He was obviously unsettled by the noises but had appeared fairly calm and was giving me paws and then suddenly snapped at me, puncturing my palm and bruising my hand. This was the first time in a year since I've had this experience.

before this I had organised my family to come over for Christmas and there will be two girls 7 and 9 staying with me for 5 days. I'm quite worried about this now and have been muzzle training him again so that he can wear a muzzle in the house whilst they are about. However of course he can't wear it all the time, and I'm just worried that despite all precautions taken, such as keeping him in a separate room at times or crating him there might be an incident. I know when I was about that age I ignored adult advice about staying away from a particular dog, deliberately sought him out and then I got bitten. It's a large house and there are separate rooms he can be in, I'm just worried in case the kids don't follow instructions and try to find him when he is resting.  It's also a very difficult conversation to have: I don't want to make them petrified of him but they still need to be aware that they shouldn't approached him when he's  unmuzzled.

I'm half thinking that I should take him to a kennels for the Christmas period which would make me sad but is possibly the best thing to do.  However it also just sets up for avoidance of addressing issues when it could be an opportunity for us all to work out how we can all be around each other.  His muzzle is very good, he can eat and drink through and although he rubs it along walls and people he does tolerate it and accepts it being put on again if the treats are good enough.

What should I do?

For the broader picture someone recently recommended I look into finding owners of working dogs (search dogs, service, police dogs) to see if they could possibly have him during holidays because they are more aware of things like guarding tendencies and tend to mind each other's dogs during holidays because they are best placed to care for them effectively. Does anyone know of any contacts in the Glasgow area that I might be able to discuss this with?  If so please let me know!

[Pearly]

I’m not sure that putting Ollie into Kennels would be helping him if he has some issues already.  Would there be a possibility he may bite someone there? There would be no way out if that happened.....

You don’t really have a choice at the moment other than to explain to the parents of the children what happened and that you are worried about their visit.  They do have a choice and also need to take some responsibility for their children.  As much as you can keep Ollie away from them, they need to respect that he is a dog and all dogs have the potential to bite - especially if stressed.

Hope it all works out for you and Ollie x

[lescef]

I agree that kennels is probably not the best idea as this would frighten him more. I also understand about children not doing as asked!
When we have children round,  my two spend most of their time in their crates.  Bramble is guardy and although has never bitten I wouldn't trust her.  ( they also would steal food!) Lively children also make her bark.
Maybe if your young visitors see him with his muzzle on  they might understand more and maybe only let him out when everybody is settled and watching TV? Could you keep him on his lead so that he lies next to you rather than moving about.
Juggling children/ dogs/ food can be a nightmare. Good luck with whatever you decide

[Gazrob]

This is a tough one. I think I'd keep him muzzled and tell the children to let the dog have his own space and only let the children around the dog when you are around. I don't think putting him in kennels will help and having the dog around at Christmas is a special time.

[Ben's mum]

What a dilemma for you.  I agree with the others, as an owner of a resource guarder who gets anxious about things, I know that Harry would be very stressed in kennels which would increase the risk of him biting someone else, and I think if Ollie bit someone else it gets escalated into more of an issue.

Can you use a baby gate in the house to separate Ollie so he has his own space and time out away from the children, but he is not being 'shut away' out of sight and risking one of the children going into him unexpectedly. 

I really feel for you having been bitten by Harry last week for the first time in a few years, its a bit of a shock when things have been going well, but I guess its something that will always be there with a guardy dog.

hope you find a solution xx

 

[hoover]

Thank you everyone for your input.  My thoughts had been that in kennels they are aware of  and very experienced with dogs likely nervous behaviours and so wouldn't do the sorts of things that children might.  He has been there twice before and they do get a 'low down' about him, including print out of suggestions.

I do have puppy gates for him, but actually I worry that these wouldn't be helpful - child putting hand through them could be provocative to him?  Not sure, not happened before but I worry.  For eg, he gets very guardy when returned to his soft crate in the boot after a long walk - i have to distract him with treats whilst I zip it up again.  Never an issue when he gets in first thing and excited to be going out, just when he's tired after a walk.

I have doors that lock but I know he will scratch the hell out of them    Desperate to be with others when he's not, but then anxious when he is as well. 

I think I'll have to arrange things so he sleeps with me in his crate in a room others will not come in and just get his muzzle on first thing after breakfast. He normally sleeps in a utility area, but I would worry in case a child decided to sneak down in the middle of the night (again basing this on what I used to do with my pets when little    ) I can keep a long lead trailing around after him in the house too, that's a good idea.  He does well on his own sleeeping for quite long periods, so I think I will maximise those times in his crate out of the way.

[Digger]

Hi. Not a great situation but for what it's worth, this is what I'd do:

1) Putting him in kennels surely won't help him feel more settled. Also, it was in response to fireworks wasn't it?

2) Talk to your guests. You were obviously a bit of a silly child haha but as someone who works with girls in that age group, I can say that in my experience they are pretty sensible and definitely prefer not to get bitten by dogs. I'm sure if you explain the situation, the girls will do as you say and give the dog a wide berth.

4)I recommend baby gates too-at least that way the dog won't feel like a total outcast and can see what's going on, so he won't be worried further by any unusual noises. We used them all the time when ours was a pup and our granddaughter came round, as she was a ferocious little biter. The dog, not the grandchild. I used to sit 'next to' the puppy but in the room with the grandchild, so they both got attention but everyone kept their skin intact!

I find once ours has had a cracking walk in the morning she's quite happy to chill out without being any trouble. I'm guessing you could leave Ollie on his own for quite a while in another room guilt free if need be at that time?

Poor you- it is a worry and Christmas is meant to be relaxing.
It never is though is it??!!

[PennyB]

Our old vicar and his wife had a rescue cairn terrier that wasn't happy around children and their family would only come over every so often as they lived miles away - they used to muzzle their dog when the kids were around so she was around them some of time but still had chill time away from them when it got too much

[Blondeduke]

I had a mongrel terrier child biter IF the children pursued the dog. My own kids ignored it.  It was a brilliant little dog with us but I did not trust it. So all children were told to leave the lion dog ALONE. The dog was shut up out the way upstairs when little ones were visiting, I could not take risk can you crate dog and lock it? Hopefully the children will be well behaved, explain they MUST ignore dog, not feed it or eat around it and keep calm, no screaming etc. Am sure they will be far too busy. If you lock in room make sure dog is locked. I agree kennels will wind your dog up with noise. Good luck. Lock up.

[hoover]

THanks again for the advice and stories of your own experience.  I have told my family the situation so they are fully aware.

 My plan is to have Ollie muzzled anytime he might share space with the kids - I have been working really hard on this to make sure that he always has a positive association with the muzzle. He gets all his food and treats either with the muzzle in my hand next to the treat or with his head through the muzzle, and then when he gets a super duper treat I fasten the muzzle on fully and he stays in it for a good few hours (building up the time he spent in it initially)  He's always wary of it and he is not a fan of wearing it really but he will tolerate it, thank goodness. When he looks like he's going to refuse I have to start from scratch with the positive association building again.

He's got a utility area and a crate and he will be spending quite a lot of time there. But we are next to a fantastic park so he will get lots of time outdoors as well.

I agree he is at his best when he is ignored but unfortunately when kids are wary of him they will keep an eye on him, understandably, which unnerves him further. The difficult thing is that, on his own terms, he adores people,  he will actively go to them for cuddles and for petting, so it's hard to explain to these same people that he might bite them if they were to approach him.

Anyway I think we have a plan forward - thanks again!



it's the little things that I have to think of - things like if I need to pop to the shops I think I will probably need to take him with me just to be on the safe side.

[hoover]

To give an update on this...I kept Ollie at home over the Christmas period and he was absolutely fine. For the most part I kept him out in the utility area and he was quite happy there as he didn't have to deal with all the people. There was one incident where my dad went to grab him when he had spotted a gingerbread house that the children had made (despite everybody being told not to do anything like that!), luckily he did not bite but there was a bit of bluster and protest.  As I said to my dad afterwards - I would rather lose the gingerbread house than lose my dog because I had to put him to sleep because he had bitten.

The kids loved walking him and throwing his frisbee for him.  The rare times he was in the house with them he had his muzzle on.  Big sigh of relief everyone has gone home without incident! 

[Ben's mum]

Thanks for the update, I wondered how Oliie had got on, glad it all went ok. My mum can't get her head round the fact that Harry would bite if he was guarding food, she thinks he looks like a complete angel 😇 and thinks I am just fussing, I think unless you have seen a full guarding cocker its hard to imagine, glad the 'gingerbread incident' was not to serious !

[hoover]

Yes, Ben's Mum - I think people only really believe it when they see it - cockers have the disadvantage that they look so angelic it's hard for people to fathom that biting would be possible.  Ollie looks at his most beautiful just before he is about to bite