Out of control off lead working cocker

[Goddy]

Our Working Cocker girl is now just over a year old - she is incredibly intelligent and can (when she wants to) follow all the commands, sit, stay, leave, wait, etc., etc., plus more advanced like "find it" in the house when we hide treats for her.  We have been to basic puppy training and then one to one sessions with a gun dog trainer as well so we have put a lot of time and effort into training.  She has always had a strong desire to investigate other dogs, other people, bikes, helicopters, horses, strange noises or anything if off lead but wasn't too bad at coming back up until a couple of months ago.  Now it is so bad that our trainer has said she should be kept on lead and gradually build back up, which we have been trying to do.  Trouble is the main thing that absolutely gives her the best time is to run as fast as she can (and she is really, really fast) - she'll hare off and although doesn't disappear from sight she is completely out of control - loops round other dogs or anything that catches her eye.  We have tried everything, very tasty treats, squeaky toys, balls, hiding, running away - etc., We are booked on a Recall Masterclass course next month but is there anything else anyone can suggest as we'er at our wits end to know what to do. Please help!

[BonnieScot]

Hi Goddy.

I think the Recall thread that's pinned in the forum is excellent and would be a good place to start. There's also a book called Total Recall that steps you through the process of teaching recall starting in very boring places and gradually upping the excitement as your pup learns to deal with it. 

I guess the biggest lesson my Bonnie has taught me is that recall at home (or sit, or down, or find it, or anything) is not the same for her as recall in a more distracting environment. I've worked out what gets her 'beyond excited' and either don't let her off there until she's ready, or make sure she (and others) are safe by having her on a long line and harness. The more work you do with them on focusing on you in increasing distracting places, the more fun you are on the walk, the better it gets.

Many of us have perfectly wonderful dogs at home who are little devils when they're in cocker wonderland- outside!

[RobinRed]

Oh dear sorry to hear you’re having a tricky time  .  I might still have this ahead of me as Harry is only 7 months but we followed the Top Barks Recall thread on here, using a tube of primula cream cheese and a whistle.  It might be worth going back to basics  and giving this a try.  At the moment it works for us and he turns on a sixpence but as we’ve also got a 14yr old Missi we know only too well that the challenges are still ahead of us and cockers have an uncanny knack of becoming deaf if there’s anything more interesting around.  Hope you find something that works for you and your girl 

[Pearly]

It sounds as though you have a fabulous wcs so fabulous you are both about to go through a very steep learning curve!

When your trainer says “keep on a lead”  they really mean that.  Much as we all want to think our dogs are pretty well behaved, I’m sorry but from what you’ve described your girl is just plain disobedient - just as mine was at 12 months old.

There is a great saying - 12 months on a lead = a lifetime off and the reverse is true.......

Its a myth that dogs must walk every day.  You have a working dog that hunts and “bogs” off - you and your girl need to go back to basics and get some brakes!  Start with feeding time - if you dont already do this, make her wait (for as long as you decide) before releasing her to eat.  Build up some distance and put a stop in, on her way to the bowl. 

Use this time to do lots of heel work - using a whistle, get her to stop/sit and praise when she does.  Keep her on the lead - walk forward to the length of the lead then go back to her and praise if shes sat static.  Walk a short distance and repeat.

I’d also be doing some place board work in the garden - getting a good stop/sit on a board, on the way to a board etc. 

Repetiton is key.  Once you have brakes you can take her out again but on a long line - practice stop/sit and let her know when shes being good.  If she doesnt stop when told, pick her up and put her back to where she was when you blew the whistle.

Shes bright.  This should only take a couple of weeks but you need to be firm and consistent.  Two weeks of little exercise wont harm 

Having written all that.....my girl was on a long line for 13 months but has just worked a full season gaining “guns choice” on her first day out.  Shes just 3.

Good luck and stock up on wine and chocolate!

Jayne

[Emilyoliver]

Hi, what kind of Gundog trainer are you going to? Have they worked with you and your dog on hunting? Or is it retrieving based training? Treats will not work for a driven, hunty dog. So you need to learn to engage with her, while allowing her to do what she needs to do - hunt.

[Murphys Law]

Is your dog interested in a ball?

My wcs, Millie, will head off and hunt, disappearing into woods and coming out of the woods 100's of yards away.....if I have no ball.
When I do have a ball she will never leave my side.

[Gazrob]

I highly recommend using a whistle. I've trained my dog to stop and come with the whistle. He doesn't always listen but I practice this everytime we go out several times per walk. I started using the whistle because he was starting to ignore my commands. He now does what I want 90% of the time. Most of the time when I recall him I send him off again straight away so I treat it like a game.

[bmthmark]

I highly recommend using a whistle. I've trained my dog to stop and come with the whistle. He doesn't always listen but I practice this everytime we go out several times per walk. I started using the whistle because he was starting to ignore my commands. He now does what I want 90% of the time. Most of the time when I recall him I send him off again straight away so I treat it like a game.

That's exactly what I do with the whistle as well. I whistle to get him to come and then send him off again. My reasons for this is because I don't want him to think the whistle means end of fun time, as I reckon he will end up not coming so quickly.

[bizzylizzy]

I highly recommend using a whistle. I've trained my dog to stop and come with the whistle. He doesn't always listen but I practice this everytime we go out several times per walk. I started using the whistle because he was starting to ignore my commands. He now does what I want 90% of the time. Most of the time when I recall him I send him off again straight away so I treat it like a game.

That's exactly what I do with the whistle as well. I whistle to get him to come and then send him off again. My reasons for this is because I don't want him to think the whistle means end of fun time, as I reckon he will end up not coming so quickly.

We do this too - just a tip though, don‘t just ONLY rely on the whistle, I forgot to take mine out the other day and discovered that my vocal command had been conveniently „forgotten“😉

[bmthmark]

I highly recommend using a whistle. I've trained my dog to stop and come with the whistle. He doesn't always listen but I practice this everytime we go out several times per walk. I started using the whistle because he was starting to ignore my commands. He now does what I want 90% of the time. Most of the time when I recall him I send him off again straight away so I treat it like a game.

That's exactly what I do with the whistle as well. I whistle to get him to come and then send him off again. My reasons for this is because I don't want him to think the whistle means end of fun time, as I reckon he will end up not coming so quickly.

We do this too - just a tip though, don‘t just ONLY rely on the whistle, I forgot to take mine out the other day and discovered that my vocal command had been conveniently „forgotten“😉

Good tip thank you, I know exactly what you mean.

[Gazrob]

Yes bizzylizzy I agree. I do sometimes say the command straight after I've blown the whistle. I also use hand signals as well.  But he's at the stage now where he just does it automatically I don't need to say it. I agree that if you are just starting whistle stop and recall that saying the command is important. I also agree that if you only recall him once then he will know that he's going home and his fun is over. Keep it fun and keep him guessing.

The whistle has been a great help. If I forget the whistle I just say the command and use my hand signal. However he's much more reliable with the whistle especially if he's a bit far away from me.

[sodpot2000]

All good advice on here that I would not be able to improve on.

I did just notice the first sentence of your post about your girl being just over a year old. Adolescent dogs and people are not that dissimilar! Cast your mind back to your teenage self and it might give you some extra clues about what is going on inside her head? Most of us found various ways to rebel and wind up our parents. Spaniels can't dye their hair green (except by rolling in slurry) or have safety pins through their noses, so they have to find another way.

Good luck. I am sure with patience it will all sort out.

[bizzylizzy]

All good advice on here that I would not be able to improve on.

I did just notice the first sentence of your post about your girl being just over a year old. Adolescent dogs and people are not that dissimilar! Cast your mind back to your teenage self and it might give you some extra clues about what is going on inside her head? Most of us found various ways to rebel and wind up our parents. Spaniels can't dye their hair green (except by rolling in slurry) or have safety pins through their noses, so they have to find another way.

Good luck. I am sure with patience it will all sort out.

What a wonderful way of explaining it!!  my visual imagination is running wild!!! 

[Goddy]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond with loads of good advice!  In truth we have already been doing most of the suggestions including special treats, whistle to come back, squeaky ball, making ourselves "interesting" by being unpredictable and running away, changing directions!  Lately I have been going with a friend who also has a working cocker of 4 years old who is very good at coming back in the hope that the two would play together and ours would follow the example!  Although only been a couple of times already Nancy is not really interested in playing for very long with the other dog and continued to zoom off completely ignoring the recall whistle!  My uncomfortable view is that when out in the big wide world we, her loving owners, are just not that important to her!  This is despite her being very, very clingy in the house who cannot bear us being out of her sight - so this is hard to understand - I really am not sure what else we can do?   

[Londongirl]

I too have a dog that will not leave my side at home and can’t get away from me quick enough when we are out. Contrary little buggers.

Now, as regulars here know, Henry’s lack of recall is a constant source of embarrassment to me. He has been on the lead now for about 18 months and I have tried various things with limited success. This is what we’re doing at the moment:

I’m only practicing any form of recall with a verbal cue at home and in the garden because I want to protect the successes we have and we’re not ready to test it in a more distracting environment. I’m working on a head-whip return to me when I call, and also a stop at distance, so I can put the brakes on. Until these are solid, Henry is staying on the lead when we are out, except in special circumstances where I know he isn’t going to bog off. I have just started testing his recall and stops  in the big bad world. The first sign of backsliding and I stop. It’s not worth the risk of jeopardising what we’ve learned so far.

I found keeping Henry on the lead very hard at first, feeling I was depriving him of his roundaround, but in fact he is perfectly happy. Rather than sending him off to ‘play’, I do lots of games with him as we walk - hopping onto to stones, walls and tree stumps and waiting there to be released; making a game of making him wait for permission before he sticks his nose in a bush; ‘watching walks’ where he has to walk beside me and catch the treats that unpredictably drop from my hand, without breaking step. In this way I’m building lots and lots of value for being with me when we are out, while working on actual recalls in a much more controlled environment.

He’s on a six foot lead which seems about right for both of us.