Author Topic: ignoring honey  (Read 5095 times)

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Offline Mich

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Re: ignoring honey
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2006, 08:44:00 PM »


I am glad I am not one of the children in your class - having a child with special needs I believe that time out should be used to calm down and never as a punishment - I think that should work for dogs aswell

 :o I think that was totally uncalled for. Lisa never suggested time out should be used as a punishment.  It is a very important strategy and an effective one when used properly.

Lisa I would love to be in your class any day of the week! :-*
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Offline kb

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Re: ignoring honey
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2006, 08:48:09 PM »
I am not trying to be rude to anyone and I am sorry if I appear that way - although I would point out that some of the replies I have recieved have been less that encouraging.

I merely posted tonight to update on Honey and show the comedy in what had happened today.

If I have made Honey out to be a horrendous dog - then it is my fault. Mostly she is a great little dog and we have overcome many difficulties - big and small.

People seem so judgemental in telling you what they would and wouldn't accept from a dog. Maybe they have got all the answers to training a dog or maybe some dogs are more spirited than others.

But tonight has made me feel a total failure as far as Honey is concerned and I feel that I can do nothing right. I do not agree with time out for children or animals - I am sorry that is my opinion. I am not questioning anybody's abiltiy professionally or otherwise. I am simply committed to finding a way forward with my lovely dog.

Mich - you are right Lisa did not suggest it was a punishment - I did - that is the way I see it. I am not a teacher but am experienced in many different forms of behaviour modifcation and see time out that way.  i am entitled to believe that as much as she is entitled to believe it does work. It probably was uncalled for, but was completely taken back by the negativity of certain posts I read


Offline Cob-Web

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Re: ignoring honey
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2006, 08:51:17 PM »
If I have made Honey out to be a horrendous dog - then it is my fault. Mostly she is a great little dog and we have overcome many difficulties - big and small.

But tonight has made me feel a total failure as far as Honey is concerned and I feel that I can do nothing right. I do not agree with time out for children or animals - I am sorry that is my opinion. I am not questioning anybody's abiltiy professionally or otherwise. I am simply committed to finding a way forward with my lovely dog.



kb, please don't feel a failure - no-one was suggesting that at all, and I am sorry if anything I posted sounded as if it was :(

Honey sounds like a perfectly normal dog to me - I've PM'd you in answer to your previous question  ;)
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Offline silkstocking

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Re: ignoring honey
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2006, 08:54:57 PM »
I am not trying to be rude to anyone and I am sorry if I appear that way - although I would point out that some of the replies I have recieved have been less that encouraging.

I merely posted tonight to update on Honey and show the comedy in what had happened today.

If I have made Honey out to be a horrendous dog - then it is my fault. Mostly she is a great little dog and we have overcome many difficulties - big and small.

People seem so judgemental in telling you what they would and wouldn't accept from a dog. Maybe they have got all the answers to training a dog or maybe some dogs are more spirited than others.

But tonight has made me feel a total failure as far as Honey is concerned and I feel that I can do nothing right. I do not agree with time out for children or animals - I am sorry that is my opinion. I am not questioning anybody's abiltiy professionally or otherwise. I am simply committed to finding a way forward with my lovely dog.



It did appear that way  ;)

You are entitled to your opinion about time out for animals and children but I know it has worked with all the children I have taught ( barring SN children) and the animals I have trained, not to mention all the gun dogs my OH has trained!  ;)

No one is suggesting that you are a failure, but people are offering advice. Unfortunatley it doesn't seem to be advice that you feel is right for your dog thats fair enough. I hope somebody can come along and offer advice that helps.

Good Luck with Honey, I'm sure you will get there in the end.

Offline Mollycuddles

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Re: ignoring honey
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2006, 08:56:24 PM »
By pushing her away / talking to her, in any way shape or form, you are still giving her attention.
Personally I'm not into ignoring dogs - and am not a huge fan of NILIF as I have heard it can make some dogs very depressed.  Mine all do things like sit for their dinner, and for their leads to be put on and off - but I don't make them sit before I cuddle them or play with them  - in my eyes its good manners rather than "who is boss" that matters....

I agree with Penel but then  I have never had a problem with my dogs and some methods suit others....

Honey will get the message of what she is and is not allowed but it does take time...she sounds like a puppy that was allowed to get away with things from say 10 weeks of age when most pups try to swing off your trouser bottoms and play bite your hand, her training of right and wrong should have started there but because she was little and cute got away with it, now she is older it's a problem but one which can be solved...
If you carry on with the method you've chosen be repetitive so as not to confuse ... she will in time learn what's expected of her....but not over night...

Make training with Honey fun which I'm sure you will and then her manners will match her looks...  Beautiful...  :luv:

Gosh!!  Honey sounds normal to me they can all be a bit trying at times  :D  ;)
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Offline happydog

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Re: ignoring honey
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2006, 08:56:37 PM »
May I suggest that everyone involved read all of this thread from the beginning? I think there have been quite a lot of misunderstandings here.
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Offline Colin

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Re: ignoring honey
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2006, 09:04:08 PM »
Please try and keep this thread on-topic folks. Thanks.  ;)

Kb - I can appreciate your excitement that something you did paid almost instant dividends. We all have our own way of doing things, picking and choosing bits from various methods - so aren't always going to agree on everything.

Although I use certain aspects of NILIF I don't follow the bit advising to ignore any attempts from my dogs to initiate attention - although I won't put up with constant mithering from them either. ( They start pestering me for an hour before their tea and I ignore them completely, no eye contact and no words.) They are of an age now whereby they don't tend to harrass me anymore other than at mealtimes, they've gradually learnt that it's a waste of time. Sometimes they come up and they'll get a stroke etc, sometimes they won't, if I'm busy ( similar to what Happydog described). I love the fact that my dogs will come upto me occassionally wagging their tales and put their heads on my knee, and if I'm not otherwise engaged with something else then I will stroke them. I know this doesn't sound like the usual advice for consistency but it's worked for my two. I wouldn't say that what you did was wrong - it works for many people - but I would be wary of taking the ignoring too far though ( eg he Jan Fennell method, which starts off with a 24 hour long ignore  :-\ ) as it can have a detrimental effect on some dogs. NILIF does make good sense though and the getting the dog to sit and wait before getting the lead put on, being fed etc does start to have a big impact on dogs.

And yes, you are right about Cockers being too smart for their own good sometimes. They are making fools of the lot of us.  :lol:

Offline JoanneM

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Re: ignoring honey
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2006, 09:06:19 PM »
Kb you were making progress this morning, honey responded well and it made you feel better too. Don't be dis-heartened by this thread, everybody will use different techniques to train their dogs, and you should do whatever you feel is right. Keep it up.  ;)

Offline kb

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Re: ignoring honey
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2006, 09:08:15 PM »
My dog is the least ignored dog in the world  - hence the difficulties!

I do not plan on ignoring her - but she does need to learn some manners - thankyou for the advice

Offline Colin

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Re: ignoring honey
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2006, 09:10:52 PM »
My dog is the least ignored dog in the world  - hence the difficulties!

I do not plan on ignoring her - but she does need to learn some manners - thankyou for the advice

That's fair enough - with a really pushy dog you probably do have to go that bit further to address the issues. I hope you keep making progress with her.

Offline silkstocking

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Re: ignoring honey
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2006, 09:12:39 PM »
Just for the record seeing as I seem to have been made the bad guy by some for having a different opinion ( and for reading the thread in a different way), my dogs arent ignored either, going back to what Penel said I believe in good manners!

Like I said already Good Luck with Honey, I hope the hard work pays off!

Offline kb

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Re: ignoring honey
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2006, 11:35:00 PM »
I just want to make it clear that I was not really ignoring Honey as much as her behaviour and the pushy way she was trying to get me to play with her. I think she learnt that barking for nothing was not really getting her anywhere.

Having read several things about fear aggression and issues around protecting her territory  - difficulties which I have posted about in other threads - I think life will be much less stressful for her when she learns that she does not actually have to be in control all of the time, because someone else is.

She is a really lovely little dog and very intelligent, we will work it out.

Offline Colin

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Re: ignoring honey
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2006, 12:53:48 AM »
Kb - that's Cockers for you, part angel / part devil.  :lol:

I noticed on another thread that you have ordered The Culture Clash - it's a fantastic book and I found it helped me see my dogs in a different way and be more relaxed about certain things they did and therefore more able to work on these areas. I wish I'd read it sooner as I'd have made less mistakes that needed correcting later on.

You might find this site useful too...

http://www.canis.no/rugaas/index.php

There's two really good articles on there - one about canine calming signals/body language which is fascinating - once you learn to pick up on some of the signals dogs are giving it really helps understand them better. There's a good "question and answer" section on there too - several hundred questions in fact. I'm sure you will find some that relate to Honey and may be of some help.


Offline shonajoy

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Re: ignoring honey
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2006, 06:00:10 PM »
By pushing her away / talking to her, in any way shape or form, you are still giving her attention.
Personally I'm not into ignoring dogs - and am not a huge fan of NILIF as I have heard it can make some dogs very depressed.  Mine all do things like sit for their dinner, and for their leads to be put on and off - but I don't make them sit before I cuddle them or play with them  - in my eyes its good manners rather than "who is boss" that matters....

That's amazing - you are the first prson I'v hard say that about NILIF - I did it for a while with Hamish, but he did get depressed, I'm convinced of it. I do use a coupl of the things but by no means all.
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Re: ignoring honey
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2006, 06:27:59 PM »
I haven't seen it written in any articles - but I know people who have done it and reported back (to trainer friends of mine)  that their dogs were very depressed.... I guess it will probably be written about in a few years time  ;)
I would be interested to hear what Honey is fed on - perhaps I have got the wrong end of the stick, but she sounds quite hyper to me.... is she fed on a food that is "natural" kb?