definitly NOT walkies

[KellyP]

Millie pulls. Although she never used too, and I can't think of the specific time when she actually started - probably when I stopped reinforcing the "heel" command as she seemed so good, andthen things just slipped from there  
Anyway - when she is just in a soft collar she pulls, we've tried stopping, telling her to heel, walking the opposite way, infact most things. Mainly she seems to be pulling just to sniff out new and inetresting smells, which I suppose is just cocker nature - but boy does it hurt! It also isn't the nicest prospect when going for a walk  

Our trainer suggested we try a gentle leader, which we duly bought and BOY! does it make a difference - instant well behaved dog at your feet, although occasionally she does try to trip you up by putting her head between your legs.

Thing is now she HATES going for a walk - you show her her lead and she runs in the opposite direction - not only is this bad in general at the beginning of a walk, but I think it is affecting her recall aswell (although she has never been one for listening, "this blade of grass is far too interesting mother!" is the kinda response I get from her!   but that aside its definitely been getting worse since getting the gentle leader.

It also iritates her and kinda rides up to her eyes, she also stops every so often and tries to pull it off with her paws, and also once its off she scrapes her face along the floor /  carpet / grass - which can't be doing her eyes any good as once shes finished they look sore and weepy - I read another topic somewhere that suggested clipping the gentle leader and collar together to prevent this - but it doesn't help - she must just have really silky fur  

Can anyone suggest anything to help? I really hate the fact that she doesn't seem to like going for a walk anymore - even my mum has commented on how little she seems to like going    

Any suggestions anyone? 'cos at the moment I feel like such a mean mummy    
I read that some people have had success with haltis and lupis etc  

P.S sorry for the essay!!                      

[*Jay*]

Hiya Kelly, I'm going through the same thing with Vegas Walkies is definitely not fun for me. First thing that occurred to me was that the gentle leader might not be the correct fit? I know that when I used the halti on Vegas it would ride up to his eyes which obviously iriitated him and caused me to stop every few minutes to pull it down. When using these sort of walking aids it is vital(I think anyway ) to have a correct fit because if not, the dog is just going to find it uncomfortable and may cause negative association with walkies. I've used a harness on dallas and found it worked well. Of course, the risk of chopping and changing may mean that she wont get used to a particular walking aid but if shes as miserable as you say, maybe its worth trying a harness. Maybe the pet shop will let you try on a harness and give it a trial in the shop before you buy it.                    

[KellyP]

Hi Gill,

I thought perhaps it wasn't fitted right aswell - and have tried loosening and tightening both bits (round her neck and round her nose) - when its that tight that it stops slipping up her nose she cant open her mouth  
Perhaps I should try getting her vet to fit it when we go for a check up?

TBH I tried the gentle leader because you're supposed to be able to take it off them after they are used to walking to heel, as I don't want her in a harness or face harness for ever - it seems so mean  

I think my mum had a harness for her cocker - who now walks off the lead continuously, she is the image of a perfect cocker, sooo obidient, I'm so jealous !   - perhaps I could snaffle that one for a try  

thanks Gill                    

[Colin]

Hi Kelly

Jimmy is 18 months old now yet still I haven't managed to crack the lead pulling problem....it's his worst characteristic. Every time I think I've made a breakthrough he regresses again. Most of the time he isn't too bad, but if there are children with us his excitement is uncontrollable.
From what I understand the halti and gentle leader are similar...from a thread on the Champdogs forum I noticed people that have tried both seem to prefer the gentle leader.
I have been using the halti for about 3 weeks now and I don't think it fits too well.....Jimmy has quite a long narrow snout and it rides up over the eyes whether he pulls or not. Although it definitely works, he is constantly pawing at it trying to get it off........he tries to sit down and paw at it when crossing roads, which can be rather alarming. To be honest I'm amazed he still sits patiently while I put it on him. Some people suggest sewing a band of sheepskin around the top of it it so it doesn't dig in and rub quite so much.....I think I might try this before giving up on the halti altogether.
I've noticed there is another similar product called "Dogmatic".  It's made of leather and to be honest looks a bit severe, the kind of thing you see on big , powerful, scary dogs. Although I wouldn't be keen on strangers thinking Jimmy was being muzzled for aggression reasons, I'd give it a try if I thought it would work. Has anyone else tried it ?                    

[Gilly]

I can see a whole flood of posts now on this topic. Buttons is a puller too (oo-er) . Today we took her and my friends cocker Roana to the park for a nice walk. I had both of them at first, one lead in each hand....nightmare If I'd carried on I'd have ended up with one arm longer than the other. Roana is so gentle on the lead and never pulls...Buttons is like taking a rug for a walk cos she's so low to the floor ....seriouslt considering something for her...but will wait and see what success you guys have 1st

Gilly                    

[KellyP]

funny you should say that about the muzzle and people thinking Jimmy may bite - I've already over heard comments from parents saying to their kids - "no, leave the doggy, it will bite you!!" - as I walk by     I feel like saying to Millie "no Millie, leave the children they will pull your fur!!"  
ignorant people!!

anyway, I really dont know what to do - Millie definitely is no longer happy about going for walks with this gentle leader on, like I said she moves away from me  

I think I'll have a look for a body harness, see what success I have with that  

Will keep you posted                      

[Colin]

I'd give the body harness a try, Kelly. It seems to have worked well for a number of peope. I had brief success using one with Jimmy until he learned to pull in a different way. At it's most extreme, a couple of times he was hopping along on his back legs like a kangaroo. It's definitely more managable than a collar and lead and you don't get all those choking pants......or the scrabbling along the ground.

What I don't understand with Jimmy is sometimes he can be the most patient of dogs. If I tell him to sit and wait in the park while I walk away he'll do it perfectly until I give him the command to come after me. He'll also balance a biscuit on his nose for ages, patiently waiting for me to give him the "OK". The other day I combined both feats of endurance.....I got him to sit and wait in the park with a biscuit balanced on his nose........I walked about 100 yards before shouting "OK" and to my amazement he just sat there like an idiot waiting ! But try and get him to do something simple like walk to heel and it 's impossible.

I guess lead pulling is pretty minor compared to some of the problems you can have with a dog, but at times it is so infuriating. I'm determined not to give up, but am fast  running out of ideas now. My next option is a personal trainer but in a way that's a last resort.......I would prefer to try and conquer it myself.

I've mentioned it before, but I used to use an extendable lead on Jimmy when he was a puppy and also let him off the lead for the whole walk in the park from day one.......two mistakes I'll not be making with my new pup as I'm convinced this caused my current problems.                    

[Colin]

Kelly, I've just re-read all this and reallised I've taken your thread off on a different tangent, ranting about my own dogs problems. Your question was more about Millie now being reluctant to go out walking rather than pulling problems.
I'm afraid it just takes one mention of "lead pulling" and there's no stopping me..........sorry !

Try the body harness ......hopefully she'll find it less intrusive than a head collar and will start enjoying her walks again.                    

[*Jay*]

Oh well Colin, they do say that you will make most of your mistakes with the first dog - Brook is testament to that theory After an absolutely horrific walk last night, I'm off down the pet shop again this morning to see what other deviceI can try Last night in my enraged state I was adamant Vegas was getting a half check collar but Im not so sure now :- Its very difficult walking a puller, never mind having two while walking three Training hasnt helped Vegas - he is in advanced obedience and still pulls till he goes blue Dallas meanwhile walks perfectly in class.....little @*%@*                    

[Mike]

Hi Kelly - snap  

As you know, I recently stopped using the halti cos although it was working for me (ie. my springer Jazz wasnt pulling anywhere near as much), it wasnt working for her. She's try to paw it off at every opportunity, and because she was resisting it rode far too close to her eye. Bottom line, she was in discomfort. I also had some people think it was a muzzle, but that didnt factor in my decision to stop using it (bring it on! ).

I'm now trying out the Kumfi body harness. First impressions after 2 weeks? I guess it works... the pulling is slightly more than when she wore her halti, but she isnt resistant to it, which is a plus. I can live with it, and I suppose I've realised that there is no miracle product that will stop the pulling entirely, only ones which work to a certain degree, and of course it's different for all dogs  

Daisy walks perfectly to heel on the lead and a normal collar... I'm so happy she didnt inherit the pulling gene too                      

[carol]

Just wanted to say, that after reading previous threads, I thought I'd try a harness.  My local pet shop only had the Lupi, which I thought I'd try.  And wow, it does make a difference, only thing is it only works when I'm with Flynn on my own, or I make the kids walk behind me, otherwise he tries to pull to reach them.

But it's really improved things, with the lead and collar he just bascally pulled me to the park and back, (boy, did we get there quickly though!) with the lupi he just doesn't seem to have the same instinct to pull.  I got a medium which fits fine (Flynn is now 7 months).

Really hope you find something that works, gosh these cockers can be so stubborn

Carol                    

[KellyP]

hehe Carol - yes stubborn and wilful!!

Colin - its perfectly OK - I don't mind you ranting on my thread   I can relate to your problem, as we too can get Millie to wait patiently for a treat, to go through the door etc, but put her on a lead and the silent husky gene kicks in!!    

I've bought just a normal walking harness now, and will give her a try in this, if I get no joy I might try that Kumfi one that Mike has been using                      

[Pammy]

My turn yup Jasper was a puller beyond believe - and still is :- Buddy is not as bad - but is egged on by Jasp. It is a very very common problem and the onyl thing that will work is the ability to put in lots and lots of consistent training - but with lives and other dogs that is so so hard.

One thing that deffo doesn't help is trying different things - I fully understand why we do it - having been there myself, but it just reinforces that they can get away with it. I found the Kumfi head collar - similar to all the others mentioned was a nightmare. I think it's to do with the shape of the cocker head in that they do ride up and cause irritation which in turn makes the walk even more frustrating. Jasper drove me mad with it - it now gathers dust on its hanger.

Here's something I pinched of another list that might help.

"the dog must always be on your left side. Hold the lead in your right hand, the best way is to put the loop over your thumb and close the palm of the hand over the loop. using your left hand hold the lead about 12 to 20 inches up from the collar, depending on the height of the dog. step off with your left foot saying heel at the same time. When the dog pulls ahead simply feel the tightness very slightly in your left hand then drop the lead out of your left hand.

As the dog get to end of the lead simply turn 180% and go back the way you came giving a slight corrective jerk and release when the lead is at full stretch and if possible at the same time as your turn. (DO NOT ISSUE ANY COMMAND AT THIS TIME) not giving a command is vitally important. With this type of behaviour modification, you want to make the dog think that it's own actions are causing the reaction, i.e he pulls it then causes you to turn.

Repeat this till dog starts walking to heel. Normally takes three to five minutes if you are following the correct technique. Then start praising and treating the dog for the correct position, in other words it is at this time you say Heel and what a good boy heel.

Most people say heel when the dog is out in front or behind which is teaching the dog the wrong position when you issue the command.

Then start enjoying your non-pulling dog. You may have to remind him over the next few weeks a few times but you will find it so much easier" (Stan Rawlinson)




I haven't tried it yet - but another thing to mention is a theory that saying heel to your dog as you pull it back confuses it. You should only say it when s/he is walking correctly at your side as they will think that the pulling is called heel!!

hth                    

[Colin]

Guess what, Pammy ? I was looking forward to trying out your tips today and then the little scamp decided to walk perfectly to heel so I didn't get the opportunity ! Perhaps "perfectly" is an exaggertation............ but good enough for me.

Maybe he read your post over my shoulder !                    

[Hel]

Try having adult rehomes  .  Cockers pull and it is so difficult to stop them.  Bengy (aged 9) was amazing because he knew how to walk to heel - my old love Jamie still pulled at the age 13.

My two at 4 and 6 (rehome and rescue) pull on the lead.  I was getting somewhere with the 4 yo when I had Bengy, but now with a 6 yo who has been in kennels for months, I've got two pulling.  However, Fletch is off lead most of the time so I've just got Pip (who I can't let off unless it is a secure area) really pulling.  

My arm muscles are looking great.  I pay money at a gym to achieve what I get from walking cockers