Guarding New Owner

[Colin]

Hi Wend - apologies, it seems I got the wrong end of the stick re the heads touching. I got the impression that the trainer had told you to put the bowls down right next to each other, which now seems not to be the case. It would only be in that instance that I think the lead thing could escalate the problem if they started to fight - as you describe it, the trailing lead sounds perfect for the job.

Re Claires bowls, it probably depends on what type of flooring you have - I use the same bowls but my kitchen floor is rubber/vinyl and they don't shift at all (unlike the plastic PAH ones I had which needed a bit of carpet under them). Maybe if you got a couple of rubber car mats, or something similar, it might help.

[Michele]

Re Claires bowls, it probably depends on what type of flooring you have - I use the same bowls but my kitchen floor is rubber/vinyl and they don't shift at all (unlike the plastic PAH ones I had which needed a bit of carpet under them). Maybe if you got a couple of rubber car mats, or something similar, it might help.

Even a piece of dampened kitchen paper under each bowl would stop them sliding   

Stevie spent the first couple of months eating in her playpen - then gradually I moved her bowl closer to the other two dogs. It's only in the last week or so, after 4 months, that she is eating close to the other two. And this is with 3 dogs that haven't come from difficult backgrounds into a new environment that they haven't encountered before. Softly softly catchee monkey - as the old saying goes.

Totally agree and after reading through this it's obvious Summer is very food orientated (understandably) and in her former life probably never had to share or be near another dog when she ate.
Something to consider 

[wend]

I know, I really must do something about the bowls slipping, it would be a shame if one got broken, we're having marble put down in our kitchen soon so that will be even worse. As it is I need to order another one for Summer as she's having to use Harveys water bowl.

[Michele]

Try the paper Wend, you can always dampen some before you get their food ready. Not attractive I know, but it'll work for the short term (think of putting a damp cloth under a chopping board  )

[wend]

Great idea, I'll try it in the morning, I've got loads of kitchen roll in the cuboard. (I wonder why?)

[Colin]

Wend - do you have a problem with one of your dogs finishing their food first, then edging towards the other one's bowl ? Maybe not - but this tip I got from the book I mentioned earlier might be of use to someone reading this that does.

The reason I left Stevie to eat in her playpen for so long was because she was such a slow eater, compared to Jimmy & Misty who wolf thier food down. As soon as they finished their own food they'd wander over to the playpen and stare at her bowl - Stevie would just sit down and stop eating. Anyway, the tip in the book was to call the fast eaters over to a spot in the opposite direction to the slow eater and hold a high value treat - making them sit and wait until the slow eater has finished, then reward them. After about a week of this, Jimmy and Misty would automatically go to the treat spot rather than the playpen. It was once they did this that I opened the pen and started to move Stevie's bowl gradually closer to theirs. It worked brilliantly - even once Stevie was eating alongside them they never tried to get to her bowl, they'd go straight to the treat spot. As it turned out Stevie cottoned onto this and started eating at their gluttonous pace so she'd get a treat too.  So now they all finish at the same time and I've managed to phase out the high value treat. I know it sounds really simple and obvious - but it's not something I'd have thought of doing. 

[Cob-Web]

The purpose of the trailing line is so that I have something to grab if they start fighting. He does believe that dogs shouldn't be  He has never actually  said that I should be the leader (I've picked that up from books) but he did say with me taking the lead and moving Summer before she attacks Harvey that it shows her I'm in control of the situation (maybe thats the same thing?)

I think you being in control of the situation will give Summer more confidence, but IMO, is definitely not the same thing as ensuring that "you are the leader"    A really amazing book that can help you understand doggy language/behaviour is "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson......it highlights the flaws in some of the more traditional training beliefs 

It sounds like you have a plan; Good Luck!

[Penel]

I obviously got the wrong end of the stick too - re them eating with their heads close together.
I still stand by what I said though, feed them way apart - why feed them close together and stress them both out, when you don't have to ?  I would feed them with their backs to each other at opposite ends of the kitchen, or as Penny said - behind a child gate etc. 

[wend]

Wend - do you have a problem with one of your dogs finishing their food first, then edging towards the other one's bowl ?  

No, they both stick their heads in their bowls and don't come up for air until its all gone.

[Michele]

How did tea-time go tonight Wend? 

[wend]

Absolutley fine, I fed them in the same room using the kitchen roll idea (works well). Summer finished a bit quicker than Harvey and then left the room. Neither of them go and sniff each others bowl afterwards, I think they know there's no chance of anything being left. There doesn't appear to be so much full blown fighting now but Summer does an awful lot of growling and barking at Harvey. It seems such a shame as Harvey always had his spot on the sofa every night, now he pokes his head round the door, Summer growls and he goes off into the kitchen. I really must read some books to see if I can understand this, it absolutely baffles me. Is there any books on 'Rescue Dogs' people could recommend?

[PennyB]

Absolutley fine, I fed them in the same room using the kitchen roll idea (works well). Summer finished a bit quicker than Harvey and then left the room. Neither of them go and sniff each others bowl afterwards, I think they know there's no chance of anything being left. There doesn't appear to be so much full blown fighting now but Summer does an awful lot of growling and barking at Harvey. It seems such a shame as Harvey always had his spot on the sofa every night, now he pokes his head round the door, Summer growls and he goes off into the kitchen. I really must read some books to see if I can understand this, it absolutely baffles me. Is there any books on 'Rescue Dogs' people could recommend?

Its still really early days yet as a lot of rescues take months to settle in and there's the happy medium. Even when you introduce a new puppy it can be just as unsettling (the way Ruby was with Wilf I thought he'd be forever the 'underdog' as she really wouldn't let him do anything without her interference which usually meant her spinning him off his feet and not being allowed to play with a toy without her taking it off him --- on walks as a pup he would sit on his bum and not move as Ruby would tell him off for even breathing). I left them to it just as I do with fosters in the house. You often just have to ride the storm with not too much interference and there is often no magic formula other than patience.

Edited to say: Is Summer growling at Harvey because she's on the sofa. I've had this with some fosters and the best way to deal with this is to remove the growler from the sofa and not let any of them on there. However you feel about Summers past awful history there are times you have to forget it as it will be rod for your own back for the future and you need to make sure she follows the rules of the house. Get her off the sofa if thats where she's growling from.

[wend]

She does do alot of the growling at Harvey when she is on the sofa. This afternoon I lost my rag a bit as her claws scratched my legs as she stood up to have a go at him. (we were on the sofa) I picked her up and just put her on the floor saying 'go on then go and get him' (not at all what the books tell you to do), but all she wanted to do was get back on the sofa with me. I think you're right about not letting her on the sofa but how do you really stop her without putting her in another room. The thing that really concerns me is that when they fight Harvey full blown lays out on his back, but she doesn't stop, if I didn't intervene I've no idea what would happen.

[Penel]

Does he fight back at all ?

[PennyB]

She does do alot of the growling at Harvey when she is on the sofa. This afternoon I lost my rag a bit as her claws scratched my legs as she stood up to have a go at him. (we were on the sofa) I picked her up and just put her on the floor saying 'go on then go and get him' (not at all what the books tell you to do), but all she wanted to do was get back on the sofa with me. I think you're right about not letting her on the sofa but how do you really stop her without putting her in another room. The thing that really concerns me is that when they fight Harvey full blown lays out on his back, but she doesn't stop, if I didn't intervene I've no idea what would happen.

When I had Cassie as a foster (she's AnnieG's cocker now) she clung to me like a limpet (practically trying to get in my skin) and the sofa very quickly became a flashpoint (mostly between her and Wilf) so I just made them all sit either on their beds or in the crate or on the floor --- every time they tried to get back on I either asked them to get off or removed them until they got the message --- they all sulked about it big time but it made sense to do it really (and I know Annie did the same when she rehomed Cassie as well). After a while they could sit either side of me on the sofa but not on my lap. You need to be firm with her on certain things --- while you need to be mindful of her history for certain things like gentle socialising for others she needs to learn the rules