he bit me!

[Barney]

Hello

Gave my little 4 mnth old a tripe stick. Delight of all delights... he loved it... took it straight to his bed for a good munch. Anway when it came to taking it back - this whole other side to him.... the growling session started then  i went for it ... and he bit my hand.... a little blood but i will live.... :?

but what can i do.... i am determined not to go down the road of paranoia about rage... as i really think this is a guarding issue.... but help would be good as im a first timer with cockers... and i adore him....!

thanks                    

[Mike]

Hello there, and welcome to the forum  

What you've experienced actually isnt that uncommon. I know some of our own members have experienced something similar, and it can be a bit distressing because it's so unexpected and seemingly out of character. But basically, you're right in that it's a guarding/possession issue and you have to teach your pup that it's okay for you take things away (as well as give). Most people help work on this by not trying simply to take away the item in question, but exchanging it for something else, then giving praise when this has been achieved succesfully.

If you get to the stage again where s/he is growling, then instead of trying to take the item away, or exchange it, give your pup some time out to let him cool off rather than antagonise the situation.  

hope this helps

Mike                    

[Tjarda]

Hi,

Before I had Gwenda I read several books about raising a puppy and one of those was a book written by a dutch expert on dog behaviour, he did the following thing - the very first time a pup growls at you, immediatly grap him by the scruff of the neck, so that he's really startled.

Having that in the back of my head, the very first time Gwenda growled at me, because I wanted to take something from her, in a reflex I grapped her and she was startled allright, not frightened; just startled. And she has never growled at me since. I can take anything from her, she will even drop things for me, when I ask her, like bones she's found in the bushes etc. she never runs from me. I do make sure I trade the things she finds for some of her puppy food.

Condition is that you have to do it on the very first occasion she's showing the behaviour. So i know it won't work for you anymore and I don't know if it's the right way to deal with it but I just wanted to write it down because it worked so well for Gwenda. And I'm wondering if anyone else tried this.

But I have found a site about dog behaviour, sort of library, that covers all sorts of misbehaviour you can find it at: http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/library.htm
I found it quit interesting.

Succes tjarda !                    

[*Jay*]

Hi Tjarda,

I did something similar with Vegas when he tried it on. He picked up something in the street and I went to take it out his mouth which is something I had done lots of times before. This time he went for me and I was so shocked that i grabbed him by the scruff and pinned him to the ground. He has never tried it again and I can do anything to him. With him, he was at that age where they try and see how far they can go, and he quickly learned his lesson. Like you say, it might not work for everyone but I do think it needs to be nipped in the bud. I think that is partly why my Brook is the way he is - he got away with murder and his behaviour wasn't dealt with correctly. I still do the exchange thing with my dogs though especially if they have something in their mouths that they value highly.                    

[Jane S]

Teaching a dog to give up "trophies" is definitely the way to go. The short, sharp shock of grabbing the dog by the scruff of the neck can work with some pups but be careful - if your pup is slightly nervous (resource guarding/possessiveness is not just seen in "dominant" personalities), then this could make matters worse - a fearful dog can react even more aggressively the next time something frightens him/her. Also a strong personality will not necessarily respond well to physical correction like this - as with anything, there is not one approach that works well with every dog. There is a new book available on this subject by Jean Donaldson called "Mine! A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs"(ISBN 0970562942). You'd need to order this as it's not widely available in book shops yet. The only online supplier I have found is here:http://www.k9education.co.uk/1030876767.html                    

[english.springer]

Had the same problem with my first dog, he is very head strong and when he was just a pup this was first thing I did was to take off him. he growled as I went to take it a small sharp slap on the nose and verbal correction. gave it back to him and took it again this time he gave it up no problems, praised him loads. I have done this with all my dogs from an early age. I think the last thing you need is if you are out walking and your dog and he/she picks up some dirty bone that a fox has had and your dog won't give it. it's a no no.
You are the hand that feeds not the competition.
Any dog should be willing to give up anything to its owner.
It sounds a bit like he is  being  protective over the chew, don't worry too much.
Please bear in mind this is a learning curve for the dog and owner.

all the best                    

[Magic Star]

Indie gets very protective over her pigs snouts she takes them behind the sofa to eat and if you pop your head around she will growl at you, like Mike says you have to teach the dog to exchange its goodies.  I make sure she doesn't go behind the sofa with her treats now, as if she is on the floor or on your knee, she will let you take it off her and doesn't get stressed in the slightest.

Again its all about learning and I would certainly say that I it sounds doubtful that what your pup is doing has anything to do wth rage.

Best of luck

Emma and Indie                    

[Pammy]

i am determined not to go down the road of paranoia about rage... as i really think this is a guarding issue....

Good - as you don't need to - this is NOT rage  It is an ownership issue and as Mike says, not that unusual.

Some dogs are very good, it's one of the things I have to say both my boys are excellent at - see they can be good at something . They never growl if I try take something back, or anyone else.

Your little bot needs to know that you are the boss, not in an aggressive or confrontational way, and that his treats/food are safe.

Some dogs never get over this and you just have to know to leave them alone. Don't make him fight for his treat. Try giving him smaller treats as has been suggested that he gets bit by bit as a reward for doing something - sitting or giving up a toy for example and avoid bigger chew treats until he has learned to give things up willingly.

The main thing is confidence. If your pup senses you are nervous, then he will start to think he is the boss - and Cockers are very good at that anyway

good luck                    

[blossom]

I know how you feel.  Just be strong and firm you will suceed.

In the summer we met a bomb explosion expert for the oil industry who used a cocker.

He gave us some invaluable advice.  As long as you are firm and strict with them for the first year they will calm down.  His current cocker was a 2 year old male who was sweet, gentle, loving and most of all extremely well behaved.

We are currently going through the tantrum stages (the balls have dropped).  He sulks when you don't play with him, he barks when you go out and he wants to play ALL THE TIME.  If he doesn't get his way, he destroys one of my teddy bears or has a windle or winges.  Slowly each day we are winning.  We are determined he is going to behave.

Our tactics are scruff of the neck and a roll of newspaper.  We have never him him with it - just the sound of it bashed on our hands is enough.  Though a firm voice has had to be used on occasion.

I am hoping another 3 months and we will have ironed out 95% of his bad behaviour.  I am told the chewing will stop in time (at least it isn't the walls, furniture and carpet).

Good luck
T                    

[Mike]

It sounds like people who work their dogs have a more 'hands on' approach than those of us who are 'simple owners'  

As Jane said earlier, I think I'd have to be a bit wary of endorsing any physical methods of correction along these lines - simply because for some dogs, I feel instead of correcting, it could go the other way and provoke fear/anxiety-based responses, which could include the actual symptoms you'd be trying to overcome, such as growling, unpredictability etc. I think it is much better to work hard on overcoming these types of problems on a more long-term approach through one-on-one training sessions whereby you give your dog something, then exchange it for something else. It doesnt happen overnight (especially not with cockers   ), but if you are equally firm and consistent, your dog comes to understand what it can and can't do because of what you say and have taught it, rather than to avoid physical correction - works for me anyways  :wink:                    

[Barney]

thanks for all your advice. i must admit he senses my nerves... when my partner approaches him - he willingly gives up any of his "trophies" - its quite interesting.

the rolled up paper method seems the most sensible... putting into practice.

thanks all!!                    

[Hel]

I wouldn't try the rolled up newspaper method or any confrontation method, particularly as you are nervous and he senses it.

Do as Mike and Jane suggest, train by swopping one goodie for another.  Don't get into the habit of always trying to take food from your dog - you should only need to take food (or anything edible) away once in a while.  If he thinks you are always about to take something off him, he is likely to guard things even more.  I know that many people think you can train a dog to give up food by continually taking its food away.  This may work for some dogs but not for all and can have quite the opposite effect.

I can take any food off my dogs (including the old mouse!), put my hand in and over their food bowl, etc, with absolutely no fear of being bitten, but it is because they trust me as the provider of food and I rarely mess with their food.

I have rescues and foster and always follow this routine with any new dog: the first meal I give is just put down and then I give them some more food by hand afterwards; the second meal has me dropping more food into their bowl as they are eating, and so on.  The aim is to ensure that they know I provide the food and that they can trust me to provide food.  Once you have that trust, in my experience, you can take food away, if necessary.