Healthy puppy farm puppies??????

[Jan/Billy]

we bought our puppy from a large retail outlet. :oops:  At the time we had absolutley no idea that this was wrong and had never heard of puppy farming. As far as i was aware they were selling puppies that they had bought from other people who didnt want the hassle of selling them themselves(strangers visiting house etc). Naive I know but at £450 we thought  we were paying for their "professionalism and expertise in puppies". Its only now that i realise he probably came from a puppy farm    We have his KC  but having done some reasearch this does not mean he came from a good caring breeder. When we bought him he was docked, vaccinated, wormed & microchipped and was in greath health. He is now 5 months old and is still very very healthy. My problem is that i am constantly worried he will become ill in the future because of where he might of come from. Our receipt from the shopsays if he becomes ill within 6 months we can take him back and swap for another!!!    I would not swap him for the world healthy or otherwise but the fact they they have written this suggests to me that some or many do become ill. He is fine now, the Vet has checked him over and said he is in great health. His coat is so shiny, he has a very healthy appetite and loves life. Thankfully we have him insured so if he does become ill i know we will be able to give him the best possible chance of recovery. Does anyone know of any puppies that have lived normal hppy life that may have come from a similar place?                    

[paul the decorator]

Hi,

If our experiance at the moment is anything to go by you should be alright.
BUT I have learn't an awful lot since buying our little Smudge ( now 13 months) If I was buying now I certainly would buy from a registered breeder and by registered I would go for a Kennel Club one.
We bought our Smudge from from kennels in Burnley , Lancashire.
The kennels when we went were of an excellent standard and they sold a number of different breeds. We had originally gone to get a Springer Spaniel for my daughters family who were with us.
Fortunately I fell for Smudge as well.
The kennel owners were very good , informative and we had the same criteria down to the 6 month return.
The only thing in hindsight was that it was only later that we realised that smudge or Rays Flavour has he had been christianed at the breeder had come with a family tree but he was registered with the Dog Lovers Registration Club based in Manchester.
The breeders are someone called Berriman from Carmarthenshire. I have not been able to find out anything about them which is a pity.
I don't know if Smudge was from a breeder who properly checked for the common inherited diseases that can inflict cockers so we'll have to take a flier on that.
Smudge looks fit and healthy , also confirmed by the vet.
Love him to bits and if he's anything like Smudgie he will give it all back 10 times over.
above all don't worry,
my wife just asked me tonight if I could envisage going back to a life without Smudge, it took me aback for a minute as I really couldn,t
 
enjoy..


Smudge , Paul and Gill                    

[Jan/Billy]

Thanks for that,  hopefully he will always be fit and healthy. We found out the dog lovers registration is owned by the same owner of the kennels where we bought Billy from in Salford  Manchester!!! The KC pups there and DLUK pups are same price. Another thing is that often they will say the puppy is"registered". The buyer thinks this means KC but it often means DLUK. We have his KC, although i have been told that he may not be the actual puppy that the breeder has registered with the KC so his family history may be nonsense.
Yeah i couldnt imagine not having billy either. He is hard work at times but we love him to bits. He is so beautiful especially in themorning. When we get up he just gets so excited when he sees us. He runs round and round the room waggling him bum. He is barmey!!! I suppose all we can do is give him love, exercise and good food and hopefully he will be ok. I couldnt bear it if anything happened. :cry:                    

[Jane S]

Not every puppy that is bred by a puppy farmer and sold through a 3rd party dealer outlet will turn out unhealthy but obviously the risks are higher as pups bred by these sort of breeders will definitely not have come from health-screened parents (eye testing for example costs money and the scheme is only open to KC reg dogs), nor will the pups have been properly socialised in the way that a reputable hobby breeder would do. Another big disadvantage is that buying from a dealer, you don't meet the Mum of the litter or any of the breeder's other dogs, so you have no idea of their temperament or background or even their true pedigree (DLRC pedigrees in particular are often not accurate). Paul, the breeder of your Smudge used to be a prolific breeder using the KC registration scheme but has obviously turned now to the DLRC because they are much cheaper and their records are not open to public scrutiny like KC records are.

I'm really glad that you both seem to have healthy, happy puppies despite their unfortunate origins but remember you have been lucky - many owners are not so fortunate and end up with pups that have poor temperaments and/or serious health problems                    

[Jan/Billy]

Billy's KC paperwork says his breeder is from Carmarthenshire too. Are KC really interested in breeders breaking the rules? I rang KC with a general query regarding billy's KC registration. The KC knew i had purchased Billy from a retail outlet and did not once ask me for his registration details to enable them to investigate the breeder.  They turned a blind eye. Makes you wonder how any KC registered breeders out there are actually puppy farmers and how much money the KC would loose if they did not allow these puppy farmers to register future litters. Do they really scrutinise breeders?

But yes,we are very lucky to have a healthy cocker. I cannot imagine what it must be like to lose an animal like that.

His health screening sayd KC/BVA schemes. DNA tests

Anyone know what this means?                    

[Jane S]

Selling puppies to third party dealers isn't actually illegal unfortunately or against KC rules as such - it is against the KC Code of Ethics for breeders to sell KC reg puppies to dealers but Codes of Ethics are not the same as rules & seem to rarely be enforced. Its a longstanding complaint that the KC accept registrations from large scale commercial breeders/puppy farmers but it seems unlikely they will stop. KC registration is not & never has been a guarantee that a puppy has come from a reputable breeder but some steps have been made in the right direction -the KC have introduced a new Accredited Breeders Scheme to promote good breeding practices, open to breeders who agree to abide by certain standards (including health screening & eventually DNA profiling) It remains to be seen how successful this scheme will be though.

KC/BVA schemes refers to the eye-testing and hip-scoring schemes run jointly by the KC & the BVA. DNA tests refers to the few DNA tests for hereditary diseases that are available in the UK for some breeds (eg Irish Setters, Bedlington Terriers). Billy hasn't had any health screening - if he had there would be details & dates underneath the headings. Also if his parents had been eye-tested, it would give the date & the results (affected or unaffected) after their names.                    

[Michele]

The sad fact is that any person can register a litter/s with the KC, as long as the parents are KC reg. This ranges from the person getting together with their neighbour/friend, to the person who churns out litter after litter, to the breeder who breeds a litter occasionally to hopefully have a puppy to show/ as a companion.
The KC issue something called the Breed Record Supplement, which is split into the Groups (Gundog, Toy etc) on a quarterly basis. In it you will see all litters registered for that quarter. When you look through and see that a litter registered is a bitches 5th litter with a total over those litters of 30 or so pups it makes quite depressing reading  
The Kennel Club will be reluctant to clamp down entirely on commercial breeders because they make up a large proportion of their revenue :?
Because a pup is KC reg it does'nt give you an assurance of quality/health. This is where you have to use common sense and gut reaction/instinct.                    

[PennyB]

Its not just about the puppies involved in puppy farming (at least some of those may find themselves in wonderful loving homes for the rest of their lives), but the poor bitches who are intensively bred often in horrible conditions.                    

[Jane S]

Its not just about the puppies involved in puppy farming (at least some of those may find themselves in wonderful loving homes for the rest of their lives), but the poor bitches who are intensively bred often in horrible conditions.

Exactly, some bitches on these places will have 2 litters a year until they drop - if they are lucky they might end up in a rescue when their productive days are over but if not, well you can imagine what happens to them :cry:                    

[Magic Star]

:cry:  :cry: Its awful that this still goes on, is there an answer?  

Sorry to go off thread :?  but do other European countries have this problem too?  Or are they regulated differently?

Also do reputable breeders outweigh the puppy farms :?  I hope so, it doesn't bear thinking about otherwise!  Maybe we should go back to the days of dog licensing, maybe, anyone who wants to buy a puppy, has to get the license first, in it there will be an information pack highlighting the issues surrounding puppy farmers, hopefully this will put people off, and there should be a list of reputable breeders for them to contact, then no breeder should sell the pup unless the potential owner has a licence, same with insurance, no licence, no insurance :?   Can't see it working well though, but even if it just stops 5% of ppl purchasing from "dodgy" breeders then surely its worth it!                    

[Jane S]

Yes other European countries do have similar problems - eg there are some terrible puppy farms in operation in Russia & some Eastern European countries.

I would think that many more puppies are produced by a combination of puppy farmers and backyard breeders etc than by reputable breeders. A look at the BRS reveals that the number of litters produced by the specialist, hobby breeder is relatively small compared to the vast numbers of puppies from other types of breeder. Not sure what the answer is - a total ban on selling puppies to dealers might help. Maybe people wouldn't buy from a puppy farm if they actually had to go to one to buy their pup but then again, some would think they were saving a pup by taking it away from the puppy farm.  I don't think a licensing system would help - it would be virtually impossible to enforce (the authorities don't seem able to enforce existing legislation anyway). It doesn't help when you have the Welsh Assembly proposing to give grants to farmers to set up dog breeding businesses! As if there aren't enough puppy producers in Wales as it is :roll: (not talking about the reputable Welsh breeders of which there are many).                    

[Magic Star]

I would think that many more puppies are produced by a combination of puppy farmers and backyard breeders etc than by reputable breeders. A look at the BRS reveals that the number of litters produced by the specialist, hobby breeder is relatively small compared to the vast numbers of puppies from other types of breeder.

Thats really sad, and to be honest I am surprised I had no idea the scale on which this was happening!!

 It doesn't help when you have the Welsh Assembly proposing to give grants to farmers to set up dog breeding businesses! As if there aren't enough puppy producers in Wales as it is :roll: (not talking about the reputable Welsh breeders of which there are many)

  :shock:  :shock:   :x  :x  Maybe the members of the welsh assembly should be shown the truths about these "farms" too, mind you I can't see that helping much, compassion and politics don't go well together :roll:  

Thanks for the info, even though its distressing to hear!                    

[Mike]

Just to give you an idea of scale... nearly 15000 cocker puppies were produced last yr. That kind of speaks for itself, doesnt it  :?                    

[PennyB]

I would think that many more puppies are produced by a combination of puppy farmers and backyard breeders etc than by reputable breeders. A look at the BRS reveals that the number of litters produced by the specialist, hobby breeder is relatively small compared to the vast numbers of puppies from other types of breeder. Not sure what the answer is - a total ban on selling puppies to dealers might help. Maybe people wouldn't buy from a puppy farm if they actually had to go to one to buy their pup but then again, some would think they were saving a pup by taking it away from the puppy farm.  I don't think a licensing system would help - it would be virtually impossible to enforce (the authorities don't seem able to enforce existing legislation anyway). It doesn't help when you have the Welsh Assembly proposing to give grants to farmers to set up dog breeding businesses! As if there aren't enough puppy producers in Wales as it is :roll: (not talking about the reputable Welsh breeders of which there are many).

I think the problem lies with the puppy buying public who need to be educated about the realities of puppy farming. I was helping with the Welsh Assembly puppy farm grants campaign last year (http://www.saynotopuppyfarms.org.uk) and it was amazing how many people I spoke to didn't know about the existence of puppy farms and couldn't see what the problem was. Sadly shock tactics of pix of conditions in these places don't seem to work either.                    

[shonajoy]

I'm all in favour of dog licensing coming back. I would hope it would also deter people who buy dogs from these dodgy breeders at Christmas.

Our Indie would have ended up being PTS if we hadn't kept him, as the breeders we got him from did an about turn and didn't want him after saying they did. We thought they were reputable, but it seems they weren't.

I wouldn't change the fact that wwe have our boy, I adore him - but I do have to wonder how his health has been affected by bad breeding, if that's the case. He's got a cataract, and now cherry eye. Thanks goodness we insured him, that's such a relief.

Shona