Healthy puppy farm puppies??????

[Magic Star]

Just to give you an idea of scale... nearly 15000 cocker puppies were produced last yr. That kind of speaks for itself, doesnt it  :?

 :shock:  :cry:  :x  and thats just Cockers alone!!  With all the other breeds the amount must be staggering                    

[Mike]

And they're just the KC figures too - unregistered pups including those registered with the DLRC, are not included, and so that number could easily double. The figures are similar for GSDs, and the figures for Labradors dont even bear thinking about unfortunately                    

[Sarah_S]

Sorry to go off thread :?  but do other European countries have this problem too?  Or are they regulated differently?

We do have these problems as well. In Denmark there are different registration clubs. If you're a member of the Danish Kennel Club (FCI-member) you have to
1) show your cocker with at least a 2'nd in quality,
2) have your dog hipscored and
3) have your dog eyetested annualy
to be allowed to breed.

And you are requested to follow some ethical guidelines, age of bitch, max numbers of litters etc etc.

If you don't follow these rules you will get kicked out of the club. But then you can enter other clubs who doesn't have these healt regulations, and if you get kicked out of all the clubs, then you can always create your own pedigree on the computer.... :wink:

We often see the puppies from irresponsible breeders at our puppyclass. I won't call them unhealthy, but many (almost all of them)  has a very poor temper.  :cry:  Some of them are unable to be trained.  :shock:                    

[Magic Star]

Thanks for the explanation Sarah!  I think its like all underhanded things, if theres a market for it, people will sell it, regardless, so sad when its living things though   Well hopefully there is some truth in the saying "What goes around comes around" and these people, will eventually be caught up with!!  Won't hold my breath though :evil:                    

[TOPAZ BILLY]

We have friends with 2 Westies, one from a "Retail Outlet" the other younger dog from a reputable breeder, the difference in these dogs health is amazing the older dog has problems with skin, eyes and bowels has has snapped at their daughter on a number of occasions (but I wouldn't blame the dog for this )and has bitten my friend hard enough to draw blood :shock: They adore this dog and would'nt dream of parting with him, but for dog number 2 they went to a recomended breeder.


Michelle                    

[Jane S]

I agree with Penny that educating the puppy-buying public is the key - there is quite a bit of information about puppy farms on the net & in magazines like Dogs Today plus there are intermittent TV exposees from That's Life in the 80s to Watchdog & Inside Out more recently but it's not enough. But then again, there is no telling some people - I've lost count of the number of people who I've given advice to about reputable breeders who have turned round & got a puppy from somewhere dubious they've found in a free-ad paper The usual reason is not being willing to wait for a litter to become available from a reputable breeder                    

[Michele]

Maybe people wouldn't buy from a puppy farm if they actually had to go to one to buy their pup but then again, some would think they were saving a pup by taking it away from the puppy farm.

 As if there aren't enough puppy producers in Wales as it is :roll: (not talking about the reputable Welsh breeders of which there are many).

I remember when I worked at the grooming salon, we had a lady bring in a Westie puppy for its first trim. When we asked her where she got the pup from, she very cheerily replied......
"Oh, we got her out of Exchange & Mart from a man in Wales, but he was very good, we didn't have to go all that way, we met him at a service station on the M4" :shock:
Beggars belief doesn't it  :?                    

[Jan/Billy]

I agree with you Penny, its about educating people about puppy farming. We did not have a clue about it when we went to buy Billy :shock: . If we had we would never have gone near the place. I think the same goes  for a lot of people who buy from these places.                    

[padfoot]

I too agree that there is not enough information available to people about puppy farming, many people just buy a puppy they see advertised and they don't realise the conditions it may have been bred in  

Some years ago I took on a rescue chow chow. She was only seven months old, and she had just been rejected by a suspected puppy farm because she had repeatedly bitten one of the owners. I went to visit her before she was ready for rehoming, and she had fleas, worms, she was dirty and desperately in need of grooming, she was frightened and snapped at anyone who went near her so was muzzled when i met her. She had marks that suggested she had been abused and she was already showing signs of entropion. She also had a skin problem. The person who had gone to pick her up said the conditions were appalling (they did report the place) and that the dog had been bred by them and she had obviously received NO socialisation whatsoever, with either people or other animals. She had been kept in a dark pen, more than likely for her entire life, just waiting for her to come into season, which she hadn't done so far, and as she kept biting they called the rescue and demanded they took her in. They couldn't even remember her name  :cry:

We took her on four weeks after she had been rescued. She became a lovely dog. She is 8 now and she now lives with my brother, I gave her to my dad when I fell pregnant as she isn't safe around children and my brother took her when he left home.
She is loved and she's a lovely dog. But her start in life has meant that even now, she is aggressive towards strange dogs and people, she is very unpredicatble around small children, she is aloof with most people she meets, she has had lots of operations for entropion and has dermatitis.

You are very very lucky to have healthy puppies from these places, but as Jane says, many pups may not have the same future, and the brood bitches are often kept in appalling conditions.
There needs to be more publicity about these places. I think the KC should investigate breeders before they agree to register their pups. I think the sale of puppies in pet stores is disgusting and should be outlawed too.
No one would blame people who innocently buy pups from these places not realising where they come from, which is why there needs to be more campaigning to educate the public.                    

[ziggy]

what do you do,,you want to save the puppy,so you buy it,you want to bash the breeder for doing it in the first place,i hate puppy farms,i wish i could win the lotto and join the government,and ban it alltogether, i wish i could rescue every little baby born to these greedy xxxxxxx ,,good job there are genuine dog lovers out there,but how many can we save before we can do no more,it makes me sick,, i moan about it all day long,but ultimately we are on our own,,whenever someone says to you the next time  """i hate dogs"""" remember to say,,""hope you never go blind"""


ziggy xxxx                    

[Jan/Billy]

Good one Ziggy! I will have to remember that one. We were out last saturday and i was telling my friend about Billy her husband moaned "i bloody hate dogs useless things". I was so annoyed,Wish i had said "hope never go blind"

Thanks to everyone who likes my Billy!!  I adore him, my life would be so boring now with out him. Before i read your replies I rang the vet about perhaps Hip and eye testing Billy. I told them the background regarding where we had purchased Billy from , the receptionist asked me what i meant by a puppy farm! :shock: I spent the next five minutes going on and on about it. Felt a bit silly by the time i had shut up but thought hey need to spread the word! The more people know about it the better  :wink:                    

[paul the decorator]

First of all thanks Jane S for the info on the breeder in Wales.

As you say its all down to profits with these people so its no wonder they turned away from the Kennel Club registrations.

One of the things reading through the replies which has interested me is that I might be able to get Smudie's Hip and Eyes tested .
What would this show up ..... I know I sound really stupid on this but how much information can the vet get from these tests both from the puppy stage and like Smudge is now at 13 months.
Is it better to carry on in ignorance not knowing and fretting ?

I have left him tonight at my daughters with his best friend Basil and I'm wandering around like a lost puppy, my shadow is missing.........

I'll probably be round there at 6.0 a.m. to take them for a walk. I will miss the kitchen doors rattling at 6.30 to get me up.


have a good weekend all.


Smudge , Gill and Paul                    

[Jan/Billy]

Paul,

You dont sound stupid.I have learnt so so much about cockers from this site, and most of my puppy farm info was from puppy alert web site.Without these two sites i would know an awful lot less. I feel as though i should be paying for all this help and knowledge (going to donate tomorrow)  :wink:

To have the test or not is your choice ,My fiance does not like me worrying and doesnt particularly want me to get Billy tested, he says why worry, there is nothing we can do, lets just enjoy him. I however just worry all the time and will have the test done just to put my mind at ease. He refuses to look at any puppyfarm web sites because it is too upsetting and says we shouldnt worry about Billy as what will be will be. We cannot have Billy tested until he is 12 months old,got 7 months yet of worrying, but your smudge seems the right age                      

[Jane S]

Try not to worry too much - eye testing at a young age (12 months) will not necessarily tell you a great deal as the main eye condition seen in Cockers (PRA) tends to be late-onset & doesn't usually show up when a dog is really young. This is why good breeders eye-test their dogs every year. Hip-scoring is a one-off test you only need to have done once but even then, a hip score higher than the breed average will not necessarily mean that there will be any problems with lameness/discomfort. Many, many Cockers are not eye-tested or hip-scored - generally it's only those intended for breeding by reputable breeders which are tested.                    

[Hel]

Gill and Paul

Don't worry and just enjoy your dog.  Where ever he came from, he came to you, you love him and he loves you.  Look on it as saving Billy from a potential horrible owner.  But, tell everyone who is likely to buy a pup to get one from a reputable breeder and tell them how to spot a puppy farmer.

I have and had adult rescue cockers - all with very dubious backgrounds and various health issues (mainly teeth/gums at the moment).  Thankfully, most cockers are lovely dogs who forgive every mistreatment by humans.  As long as you give your cocker what he needs (i.e. exercise and stimulation), he is very likely to be fine.

Best wishes

Hel