Author Topic: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((  (Read 9279 times)

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Offline Marko

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Re: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2007, 01:58:59 PM »
I have read and heard so many different theories on food aggression as our boy Harvey does it too.
We are working through it by lifting his bowl whilst he is eating so he knows who is boss!
This seems to be working but after trying the other method of hand feeding I wasn't sure if we were going to cause him to guard his food more!
I have taken professional advice on the lifting method so it's not something I have plucked out of the air......he started this about 6 weeks ago, he is 1yr old at the end of this month so not sure if this is an adolescence issue too.
I would think that shouting "NO" if your dog is snapping or growling IS the best method as it would leave them with the thought that you are in charge.
I don't know if it depends on the age of the dog too as Harvey is really testing us at the moment with various inobedience, aggression etc!

Offline cdpops

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Re: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2007, 02:10:16 PM »
Sorry Marko I don't agree. Shouting at your dog and lifting his food is not the way to a positive relationship IMO. I too had a "trainer" when I first got Charlie who went down the dominance show them who is boss route and in my situation it made things worse. Since we adopted a more positive approach Charlie has progressed so much, we basically reward good behaviour and totally ignore bad, using time out if things escalate.

I meant to say it may be a behaviourist you need to contact who is a member of the APDT

Offline Helen

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Re: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2007, 02:13:14 PM »
Marko, I would see advice from another trainer.
helen & jarvis x


Offline happydog

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Re: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2007, 02:22:37 PM »
Marko, you are going to end up with a stressed and scared dog if you continue down this route :'(.
Please seek out a trainer/behaviourist that can advise on positive training methods.

Your current one is using very outdated methods and by adhering to these theories you will end up causing deeper problems for Harvey and you which will be very damaging and irreversible.
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Offline Philtrum

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Re: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2007, 12:40:28 PM »
a little update ....

Feeding charlie from 2 bowls and praising him is working well ... yesterday I fed im inthe garage (neutral teritory with loads of space) and fed him from one bowl (low sided so he can see whats going on) and was able to stroke him from his neck to his tail whilst eating ... also moved his bowl a few inches as I put some more food it in (by accident) and not a murmor

last night I fed him in his normal room with his normal bowl and as I walked past and said hello he did a little growl .. more of a grumble and certainly nothing like it was

so... progress is being made


I have a question has Charlie is also barking when we are upstairs and pulling on the lead so Im thinking of getting a trainer in to train me and my wife on how to help him through this andget a positive result quickly

Barkbusters have been recommended by someone I know and they do a "deal" where for £270 they cover all problems with as many visists as it takes for the lifetime of the dog ......

is this any good ... or can someone recommend a trainer in the tamworth area (midlands)

Cheers
PHil and Charlie

Offline Helen

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Re: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2007, 12:51:56 PM »
a little update ....

Feeding charlie from 2 bowls and praising him is working well ... yesterday I fed im inthe garage (neutral teritory with loads of space) and fed him from one bowl (low sided so he can see whats going on) and was able to stroke him from his neck to his tail whilst eating ... also moved his bowl a few inches as I put some more food it in (by accident) and not a murmor

last night I fed him in his normal room with his normal bowl and as I walked past and said hello he did a little growl .. more of a grumble and certainly nothing like it was

so... progress is being made


I have a question has Charlie is also barking when we are upstairs and pulling on the lead so Im thinking of getting a trainer in to train me and my wife on how to help him through this andget a positive result quickly

Barkbusters have been recommended by someone I know and they do a "deal" where for £270 they cover all problems with as many visists as it takes for the lifetime of the dog ......

is this any good ... or can someone recommend a trainer in the tamworth area (midlands)

Cheers
PHil and Charlie

i would steer away from BarkBusters personally

you should be able to find someone on the apdt site near you that can help
http://www.apdt.co.uk/about.htm
helen & jarvis x


Offline Top Barks

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Re: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2007, 03:00:33 PM »
Far better to get someone on recommendation  but i have heard some very interesting stories about some of the Bark Busters trainers. >:(
I wonder what qualifications or training  or assessment programme they go through to work for the company?
Don't also be fooled into thinking you 'll get a trainer in and things will just change instantly.
Trainers train people to train their dogs and it is you that will have to put in the hard yards.
If you go with this deal what guarantee do you have that you will have someone who knows what they are on about for the life time of the dog. Bark Busters may not even be around by then.
I would find a reputable trainer with qualifications and experience and go lesson by lesson and see how you go.
The link Helen has given you is a good place to start.
Mark

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
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Offline PennyB

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Re: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2007, 11:03:22 PM »
I would think that shouting "NO" if your dog is snapping or growling IS the best method as it would leave them with the thought that you are in charge.

A dog that growls is effectively giving a warning that they're not happy, its their way of communicating that you're pushing them too far. Shouting no is nothing to do with letting them know you're in charge. As Jean Donaldson (great US trainer) suggests: 'You shouldn't punish the growl out of the dog and thereby lose your “early warning system!” A dog who’s been taught not to growl (but still feels the same about “his stuff”) is likely to bite “without warning.” '

Confrontation of any sort when a dog shows signs of possessiveness can make the problem worse

Jean Donaldson's book Mine is great for anyone who has any problems with possessiveness/guarding
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Offline Jan/Billy

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Re: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2007, 10:07:19 AM »
this is what Billys behaviourist said about her experiences with Barkbusters. She has given me permission to post this if it's ok:-


So many you would not believe. They are usually Cockers or Retrievers displaying aggression. Their advice is so appalling the dogs are often traumatised and little can be done by the time I see them. It usually involves repeatedly throwing choke chains at the dog because naturally the problem revolves around dominance!
 
A few years ago it used to be £175 and £15 for each additional pet; be it cat bird or rabbit and plus mileage as well. They 'guaranteed' to resolve the problem on the first visit, but they promised you a lifetime guarantee anyway. If they fixed the problem first time, why would you need a lifetime guarantee?
 
Apparently, it's now £200 plus mileage for a 12 month guarantee. Its £500 plus if you want the lifetime guarantee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am dealing with a lady now that opted for the cheaper option. Each time she 'phoned they said keep following the plan and ring again in a month. Needless to say they strung it out for 12 months and said she would have to pay again if she wanted them back.
 
She has a gorgeous Great Dane who was barking at other dogs because he was nervous. Now he barks at anything and has been aggressive to the owner as well. When I called two weeks ago everywhere you looked there was metal dishes containing a choke chain. She was told that it was all down to dominance and everytime he did something she did not want she had to launch a choke chain in his direction, hitting the dish (and sometimes him) so as to make more noise. She also had to shout but in a very deep voice. When they took the dog outside the home he was bombarded with water filled bags if he barked.
 
That is about the sum total of their advice, the dog is worse and the owner is a nervous wreck. Amassing as it seems this dog has not thankfully flipped as many do so I have great hopes but the owner has an awful lot of work to do. Plus the fact she feels so guilty at what she has put her dog through so she is working hard to rebuild their relationship. She is a lovely lady and my heart goes out to her and the dog of course. Apart from the breed, this case is typical of what they do.
 
Oh I didn't mention. It was originally an Australian company that expand over here as a franchise, business opportunity! You pay them a franchise fee, go on a short course and then you are a 'proper behaiourist' with a company vehicle! Sadly, owners don't check up on qualifications, experience or if someone belongs to a recognised body. Its like everything, its 'buyer beware' I'm afraid. They don't have to disclose its up to you to find out.



Offline Top Barks

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Re: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2007, 11:33:27 AM »
I heard a funny story which allegedly came from a trainer from this company.
The client  asked the trainer about clicker training her dog and the reply she allegedly got is that dogs do not understand the clicker and it does not work.
So the client said I thought that it was used in dolphin training very successfully.
To that the trainer allegedly replied well Dolphins talk in clicks so it would understand the clicker wouldn't it.
I nearly burst my sides when I heard this story. :005: :005:

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
Member of The Association Of Pet Dog Trainers (00977)
 
Check out my website http://www.topbarks.co.uk/  www.yorkdogtrainer.co.uk

Offline Philtrum

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Re: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2007, 12:25:41 PM »
lol ... that is so wrong its funny

barkbusters is not an option from what I've heard here ... I was dubious before, the lady did sound nice and said that there are no gimics or chokechains involved ... but for me thats the end of that one ...

anyone got a recommendation for someone in the midlands ?

Offline Top Barks

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Re: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2007, 12:31:42 PM »
Have a look here. you shoukdn't go too far wrong.
http://www.apdt.co.uk/list_trainers.asp
mark

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
Member of The Association Of Pet Dog Trainers (00977)
 
Check out my website http://www.topbarks.co.uk/  www.yorkdogtrainer.co.uk

Offline Philtrum

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Re: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2007, 09:34:34 PM »
Hi

thanks for the link

I spent over 30 mins on the phone to a lovely lady who gave me loads of advice, all sound advice too

Im going to book a visit, I can only hope that things can be sorted and quickly (due to having a 3 year old), he just had growl at me again and my daughter is now scared of him whenever he barks / growls, she does not want to come home from school at the moment as charlie is at home ...

Im at the end of my tether at the moment worrying about by daughter with him, which is very sad as he's a great dog overall, I dont want to think that he would never be safe with her and have to look at finding him a kiddy free zone, but at the moment I have a gut feeling thats whats going to happen

if it does turn out that he is not kiddy frendly I want him to go somewhere nice where he will be loved loads ....

Please dont take it that Im giving up on him, Im just down and pouring my heart out on the keyboard at the moment.

Offline JenSam

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Re: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2007, 09:41:23 PM »
Philtrum,

Please don't give up on Charlie, let the behavourist come and see you.  You will need to work hard at it. 

There are times when Sam has just been a total brat and I have been in tears because he wont stop barking, or chewing things that he's not supposed to, after tryng to distract him with toys or treats.  It is really hard sometimes.

I know it is harder for you as you have a child and the thought of her not wanting to come home must be terrible, but if you get his issues dealt with, he will turn into a great dog and Charlie and your daughter will be great companions in life.

I will be thinking about you all.

Good Luck
Dogs are natural optimists and believe if they stare hard enough and long enough, the icing on the cake could be theirs.

Offline Jan/Billy

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Re: Charlie has developed some issues .... :((
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2007, 09:49:31 PM »
I agree. If I was in your shoes I'd arrange to see a behaviourist asap. Once you have done so, then you can decide where to go from here.

For the time being I'd just give him plenty of space, as much as you can give him. Try not to put him in situations that you know will agravate him ( easier said than done I know).


How old is he?