Help - feeling desperate!

[benbobs]

I apologise as this is going to be a fairly long post! I'm new to this forum and am really hoping you can help! We have an almost 11 week old cocker, Ben and have now had him for 2 weeks. He's our first dog and is a lovely little pup and is doing really well in so many ways - he's actually my 18 year old son's "boy" - he can come to his name, "come here", "sit", "stay" and is working on "down"; he is generally well toilet trained using mats and with few accidents. My son takes him out twice a day for socialisation "walks" (he carries him) and he has 3 or 4 daily "play" sessions in our back yard.  He's had the first of his vaccs.

However, there are some things I am finding really difficult and I've found myself sitting in the kitchen in floods of tears at 4.30 for the past few mornings thinking that I'm just not enjoying this and feeling totally overwhelmed. Our house is a 3 story townhouse and he's based in the kitchen downstairs. He has a crate for his bed which he uses happily and has mats outside it for toileting. The kitchen is a large room so I built a pen around his crate to keep his area small but he managed to climb out after a week ( ) so he's back to the whole kitchen with a stairgate. The kitchen is a busy room in our house and he's used to lots of company and activity in there during the day - he sleeps well in his crate during the day. However, at night he's still needing to go to the loo twice and no-one is getting much sleep! He has a ticking clock, hot water bottle and cushions/blankets to keep him snug and reassured. He won't settle to sleep alone and I know lots of people say to leave him to it but we did try for 1 night and he was  so clearly distressed and stressed it was really upsetting for all the family; plus I came down at 6.00am to mess literally all over the room, Ben and his bed! Some books advise to get up and let him outside when he's "due" but inspite of trying to time him it fluctuates wildly between 1.00 and 2.30 am and again between 3.45 and 4.30!! Therefore he tends to do his stuff on his mat then start barking. The first loo trip of the night goes well - I clean up his mats, warm up his hot water bottle again, tell him quietly "good boy, bedtime" and he will get back into his crate - as long as I stay in the room (sat quietly in the dark) he will go back to sleep for another couple of hours and I can go up to bed after waiting for half an hour.

Should I be anticipating and taking him out or waking him so that he will use his mats? - my brother has a springer and he says it was weeks before he gradually "went" outside - he was a fan of leaving him in the night and not going to him - putting up with the noise and sorting the mess in the mornings but he lives in a detached house!

The second wake up doesn't go well at all and he's ready for play and barks, yaps and nips like mad. I know it's the time of day that makes it so stressful for me as I'm so conscious of our neighbours and the noise he's making so early. My other son is studying for 5 A levels and really needs his sleep too! At the moment we are all off due to the Christmas holidays but next week we will be up at 5.30/6.00am and in/out at various times during the day -  how can I get night times sorted so that we can all get some sleep and so that he will cope with being on his own for a couple of hours during the day??

I feel so overwhelmed and that we're failing him - I don't know if I'm over-thinking everything and expecting too much of us all, Ben included! I never expected it to be so hard and just don't know what to do - I'd really welcome your advise!!

V

[kaz60]

Hi I can really sympathise with you as Arthur is 14 weeks old and we have had pretty much the same experience. We have now got a crate in our bedroom (not ideal) he goes in it no bother at all. At first he started stirring around 2.30 so I would get up take him out, he would do his toilet and I would put him straight back in his crate, no talking, no fussing just straight back in. As he has got older he now only wakes once and that is about 6-6.30, I take him outside but bring him back into the kitchen, put the light on and the radio and close the door and he goes in his bed, he is fine, I then get up at 8 and do his breakfast. Arthur is a terrible nipper and that is really getting me down. I really do sympathise as I have asked myself many a time 'why did I do this' but I am assured it gets better. I really hope things improve for you.

Karen

[sodpot2000]

Firstly don't let the stress spoil the fun of having a new pup.

Secondly there is no one right way of doing things - pups like people are all individuals.

Thirdly having a pup is a lot of work. I think it is an investment that pays off later but that is not to under estimate the time commitment that is needed.

My preferred approach is to have the pup in a crate in a bedroom so that you can get up and take them out when they wake in the night. You may care to suggest to your son that this will be good practice for when he has a human baby to lookn after  .

Good luck and stick with it. It will be worth the effort in the end!

[assumpta]

I too think its a lot easier having pup in the bedroom, I did put puppy pads down in case of accidents but apart from the odd one or two it worked great. I live in a bungalow so its much easier nipping in and out for toilet breaks but found if he was let out before bedtime then around 3am and then up at 6.30am he was dry I was sleep deprived for a few months and it is very tiring but it does get easier I promise. I also think if Ben like my pup is used to a lot of company will settle so much better at night if he's in the bedroom but only if that suits you. Good luck with your little pup 

[wendall]

I also had the crate in the bedroom. When Honey woke in the night for the first few nights I used the puppy pads as she had worms and was very loose Then I took her out, fortunately we live in a bungalow. Luckily for me she went through the night after two weeks. Good luck x

[lescef]

It is a real shock to the system getting a new pup. But it will pass as he grows. As has been said, each pup is different but this is what we did: we bought a puppy play pen and put the crate inside it. It is tall so I don't think Ben would be able to escape! Most dogs are less likely to soil in their crates, by giving him the run of the kitchen you might be encouraging him to soil.
It will be better once he can walk instead of being carried as that will tire him a little. We took water away in the early evening (except very hot weather). Go to bed as late as you possibly can 11.30 to midnight having played with him first so he is then tired, and you're up early so that's ok. The late evenings do pass. Good luck -just try to enjoy him.

[JackieT]

I think we were lucky with Ziggy settling down at night. What we struggled with was crazy zoomies that sometimes lasted from 6 - 10 or so. It was exhausting. What I would say though is that Ben is still very little. The first four weeks were hard and exhausting but it definitely improves quickly. And the first two weeks were the worst of all - we were all shellshocked and I remember sitting in tears while he ran amok and I was desperate to sit down.  I barely left the kitchen for those 2 weeks.

I'd agree with Lescef's advice about going to bed as late as you can too. We are night owls anyway, so we always take him out for a last wee before we go to bed, usually between 11.30 and 12.00. This helps with early mornings - today I didn't wake up till 9am and Ziggy was still dozing in his crate waiting for me without a sound.

It really does get better, hang in there!

[Helen]

I put my 12 week old in his crate at 10.30 and I get up to him at 6.30 to let him out.  He makes no noise (we have the door open to upstairs and we live in a terrace so we, and our neighbours, would hear him!) and stays dry all night.  The first night he cried for 5 minutes (I was on the sofa next to him if it got out of hand and he went on and on and on) and that was it.  Our sofa is the most uncomfortable in the world so the next night I slept upstairs (not very well as I was listening for any cries - but there weren't any and that was that)

I didn't use a crate on my previous dog and used to get up at 3 (the first couple of nights and gradually lengthened it to 6.30 over the course of 3 weeks) but neither have cried or have messed with either system.  I think you have to be consistent and firm otherwise they will push it.

I've always made sure both pups weren't overstimulated at bedtime and that they were naturally tired which helps.  Most importantly I've never gone to the pup and let him out unless he was quiet - and that could just be a lull in the crying - the only time I have got this with Jago is very occasionally during the day when he's woken up by noises outside.  I also make sure his crate is completely covered with blankets so it's very den like and he's not disturbed by anything outside the crate.

First time around pup was an angel (my beautiful brown boy  ) - must admit this time around, apart from nailing the sleeping,  it's much harder and is putting me off puppies for life!

[Vixter]

We used to set an alarm for about 2-3 hrs after we put Isla in her crate at night, and then set it later by 15 mins per night until she slept through.  We found doing it gradually helped her adjust.  I'm also a big fan of routine with our pup, it really helps manage them.  So we had a very strict bedtime routine which we still use now.
Don't underestimate the "puppy blues", we have all been there and it is really hard work but it does get so much easier 

[Jane57]

It goes get so much easier and so quickly too. This is the hardest time ever.
When we first brought him home we would put riley in his crate about 10.30pm, one of us got up about 2am take him out the back and he always wee,d sometimes did a poo , straight back in crate, again I would get up at about 5.am, same again, back in crate till about 7am
I sometimes (maybe twice a week) got a wee in the crate, never a poo though.
Gradually I lengthened the times till I was getting up just once, maybe about 3am ish, then by 5 months he was sleeping from 10.30-6am.
Honestly hard as it is, its like a new baby again, it does get better fast.

By 6 months he was sleeping 9.30pm-7am. Now nearly 3years its 9pm,
I would do the same again, it worked for us, though it was in the summer so wasnt as bad getting up in the middle of the night I suppose.

[benbobs]

Thank you all so much for reading and replying to my long winded post! It's very reassuring to read that a)I'm not the only one to find it so hard and b)the things I find tricky were tricky for others too! It's really good to hear that I'm basically not doing anything wrong - his crate is really cosy and covered with a blanket as it seemed to calm him on his first night with us. Along with his clock and hot water bottle, as he's used to company we always leave the radio on quietly for him overnight (talk not music). I had considered a puppy play pen but read many reviews that said their pup had used the horizontal bars to help them climb out - as Ben managed to get out of a flat wooden pen I'm sure he'd escape from a play pen in 2 seconds!! Our routine will be much better for him next week when term starts again so I'm sure that will help. I'm going to keep him up later in the evening and stick to his other night-time routines - hearing that I'm not the only person who doesn't "leave him to it" all night made me feel ten times better. I'll persevere for another few nights and if there's no real improvement I will try him in my room.

Thank you all so much for replying - I had to have a rant as I was so upset and frustrated!! Looking at him flat on his back asleep on the carpet right now I know the hard work will be worth it!!

V

[Jane57]

Thank you all so much for reading and replying to my long winded post! It's very reassuring to read that a)I'm not the only one to find it so hard and b)the things I find tricky were tricky for others too! It's really good to hear that I'm basically not doing anything wrong - his crate is really cosy and covered with a blanket as it seemed to calm him on his first night with us. Along with his clock and hot water bottle, as he's used to company we always leave the radio on quietly for him overnight (talk not music). I had considered a puppy play pen but read many reviews that said their pup had used the horizontal bars to help them climb out - as Ben managed to get out of a flat wooden pen I'm sure he'd escape from a play pen in 2 seconds!! Our routine will be much better for him next week when term starts again so I'm sure that will help. I'm going to keep him up later in the evening and stick to his other night-time routines - hearing that I'm not the only person who doesn't "leave him to it" all night made me feel ten times better. I'll persevere for another few nights and if there's no real improvement I will try him in my room.

Thank you all so much for replying - I had to have a rant as I was so upset and frustrated!! Looking at him flat on his back asleep on the carpet right now I know the hard work will be worth it!!

V

Aww I think its because disturbed sleep does make us tired and feel low at times.
You are doing everything I did,  radio 4 If I remember when it was just talking, I used to do the same, cover the crate etc,
His bladder/bowels will get stronger so quick. Riley now goes 10 hours at night (I cant even go that lol )

Any photos of this lovely little one?

[MIN]

you are so not alone. we all have been there, cried our eyes out over these pups. you will find that in the "COL" family someone is always there to listen at all hours. Even if that person can not help, atleast someone is about to  hold out a cyber hand till the right help arrives 

[Ben's mum]

I remember the puppy days with complete horror and that was nearly 12 years ago now.
Every time I get broody for another puppy I come on here and remind myself what hard work it was 

My Ben was so bitey and just blooming horrible, I didn't know about COL and thought that I was doing something wrong and many times I wanted to send him back  . But stick with it as others have said it is so worthwhile, Ben is just a complete cuddle monster, the most cuddly cocker you could imagine and a joy to own, I am sure your Ben will be the same.  Harry was 8 months old when he came to us and I was so glad to have missed the tiny puppy stage, but having said that I do sometimes feel we missed out on crucial bonding and learning time as even now I can't read him as well as I do Ben. Can't wait to see pictures of your Ben 

[vixen]

I remember the puppy days with complete horror and that was nearly 12 years ago now.
Every time I get broody for another puppy I come on here and remind myself what hard work it was 

I agree with Ben's mum.
My girls are over seven years old now but I still remember those early puppy days.
I had two together (litter sisters) and it was such hard work.
I remember the tiredness and never being able to relax as I was constantly watching them in case one or the other had an accident.  On more than one occasion as I was cleaning up a wee, the other one would come over thinking it was a game and paddle in the puddle and traipse it through the house.  I never knew who the 'culprit' was if just 'evidence' was discovered . I needed eyes in the back of my head to watch what they both got up to.
They had the zoomies around the house too but together   
I remember feeling so drained with it all that I actually wrote out an advert for them as I just wanted them gone     I wonder how I got through it.
Once the housetraining was achieved things settled down and I was able to relax more and catch up on my sleep.
When you are in your situation it is difficult to think long term as you are tired but it WILL get better.
Ben is just a baby - liken the situation as to when your son was a baby     you must have been exhausted at times but you got through it and you'll get past this phase 
Good luck and as others have said - we need a photo