Puppy and sleep!!

[Landers]

We got our little boy last Wednesday, he has just turned 13 weeks old. He is adorable and has such a lovely temperament.

Just wanted to check a few things about his sleep as I’m not sure how to proceed and if what I’m doing is right.

Quantity of sleep

I’ve read puppies need around 18-20 hours of sleep a day. He naps a lot but the second I love he wakes up and follows me so I don’t know how great the quality of his sleep is. I think it also means he is tired a lot as I often plan to do an activity then a nap but he ends up napping while I’m doing something first. I would love to do enforced crate naps so he doesn’t get too disturbed but when I put him in his crate in the day he just wails. I’ve just been popping him in a couple of times a day for 5-10 mins while I have a shower or do a quick job etc but he hates it. Should I just persevere with this and hope he gives in eventually? I’ve read things to support that and completely oppose it. It’s like having a baby - so many different opinions!

Roughly how long should he play for, do some training etc before then needing a sleep? I’m not sure if I’m making him overtired or not letting him get tired enough!

Don’t have much of a routine at the mo as we are just getting to know each other but when the kids go back to school in a couple of weeks I think that will naturally provide more of a routine.


Nighttime:

So this is up and down and again I’m not sure if I am causing problems. I’ll detail each night so far...

Night 1 - in crate for half an hour wailing, I gave in and he slept on the couch with me.

Night 2 - I slept on the couch, crate next to my head so he could see me. He whimpered a bit but settled quickly and we went out twice for the loo.

Night 3 - old school father in law was visiting, he’s a gamekeeper and always had working cockers. He convinced me to put him in the crate and go cold turkey. After 3 hours of howling I gave in and repeated night 2.

Night 4 - by the couch again but slightly further towards the door.

Night 5 and 6 - moved crate to the hall, whimpered a bit but did settle.

Night 7 - last night, I tried moving it to just inside the kitchen door so only around 10 feet from me. Could not get him to settle. Kept howling and crying. I shushed him a bit, took him to the loo, let him have a drink and put him back. Couldn’t get him to stop so I ended up sitting near the crate and jisybshushing him and saying ‘good boy’ quietly when he was quiet. I tried draping my dressing gown over the crate but that didn’t help.
He would fall asleep but as soon as I tried to get up he would wake again. So eventually I lost lay down and he cried for ages but it was more moany than scared (I think) and we eventually both fell asleep. But when he woke for a wee he did it again whereas on the other nights he has settled quickly again after a wee.

I’ve always waited til he is quiet before I go to him or say anything when he is in the crate. He goes in and out of it in the day and I’ve been putting nice bits of food in etc.

I’m wondering whether to just go to bed and leave him tonight as not sure the soft approach is getting us anywhere.

I’m also struggling to know when he is crying for a wee or not. If he has been asleep and wakes and whimpers I bring him out and he usually goes. I am quiet and don’t engage and put him straight back. I obviously don’t want to leave him needing the loo but equally don’t want to accidentally pander to him if he doesn’t!

Evenings

He is normally pretty sleepy in the evenings. I try to do nice relaxing things with him like brush him but that just sends him to sleep. If I cuddle him he sleeps! I cuddled him sleekly for about 10-15 minutes last night before I put him in his crate and I’m wondering if that caused the problems last night. I feel I should be keeping him awake a bit but then he can get a bit hyper as probably over tired. He generally chills with us all in the living room from evening onwards. He plays a bit, chews his toys, naps a bit. I bring him out for a wee and try and put him in his crate around 10.30. He has generally been sleepy for an hour or two prior to that. He tends to start the day around 6ish which is fine except generally he falls asleep again after a play so he probably could do with going back to sleep after that loo trip but not sure whether to try with that with it being daylight by then.


Sorry for all the waffle, I’m very sleep deprived! And wanted to give a full picture if possible.

[PaulJ]

We were lucky. Pup settled quickly so I have not experienced what you are.

We ignored pup when in crate if he cried. There is a very distinct difference between a cry for attention and a cry for “help” I am about to pee myself.

Things I would try if in your shoes would be,

Put a tee shirt in crate that you have slept in so pup has your scent with him.

Leave the house for short periods of time. No fuss when you leave and no fuss when you arrive. Go do something nice for you.

Do some jobs in same room as crate with pup in it. Get him used to other stuff going on.

He will learn to settle, be patient and try not to worry too much. It will be a stressful time for him too! Personally, I would take the hard route of ignoring cries in crate so no association of attention with crying but that’s easy to say as I have not experienced what you have.

[Landers]

Thanks Paul. He is very sweet and seems to have a lovely, eager to please personality so I remain confident we will get there! But I’m worried in my tired state I might be doing something that could be causing more problems than helping.

I’ve been around to the neighbours and luckily they said they can only hear him when they are in the kitchen but that it hasn’t kept them awake. So I might try going cold turkey again given he eventually fell asleep. He has also had a great nap in his crate today. I thought I would be fine going cold turkey but I couldn’t believe the noise and how distressing it was.

[Landers]

Does anyone have any advice? Please?!

Last night was terrible, he had a good sleep in his crate yesterday so decided to put hmi in it last night and go to bed rather than the couch. He literally barked and screamed at the top of his voice non stop. I kept thinking he would tire himself out and fall asleep and I would making a mistake going down and responding to the barking. I went down a couple of times to bring him out for a wee and felt so bad putting him back in the crate. Eventually around 4am I went and laid on the couch in the living room which is across the hall from him. I clicked every time he paused and eventually he settled for around 20 minutes but then started again. This carried on until around 6ish when I let him out to the garden again and it was light so decided to start the day. He then fell asleep on the floor next to the couch for a couple of hours.

I really don’t know what to do. I’ve probably had around 10 hours sleep total since we got him a week ago. It’s got to the point I don’t feel safe driving the kids in the car I’m so tired although only doing b short journeys to the park for the puppy. Feel bad on the kids too as feel the summer holidays are being very boring for them now and I’m too tired to be fun at home

[Bettylove]

We started with a crate next to our bed in our bedroom. I have to confess though we have in and now he sleeps on our bed!!! We all get much more sleep now. However, I wish I had started from the beginning downsatiars as it does now feel like there are three of us in our relationship 😂

[Ben's mum]

Welcome to the world of cockers 
We had a blanket over the crate at night making it dark and safe, put a ticking clock in wrapped up, someone told me it was soothing and Ben settled very quickly.

Is it completely out of the question to have the crate or a bed in the bedroom with you?  I know some people have resorted to doing that to get sleep and then slowly inched the crate out of the door and into a hall as the puppy got older and more settled 

Hope you find something that works its exhausting night after night

[ips]

Best thing we ever did was crate her in our bedroom. 👍

[Emilyoliver]

I'd echo the others re having puppies crated in the bedroom.  It's worked brilliantly for mine, and helps with the early house training as well.  They settle quickly and sleep, and if they do wake up in the night and cry it's usually because they need to go out rather than just for company (as they may do if downstairs).  Mine still sleep crated in the bedroom, but they're very adaptable and will happily sleep crated downstairs/ outside the bedroom if we're away on holiday. 

[Digger]

Hi- You poor thing-you must be shattered!
Having a cocker puppy is mind blowing anyway without sleep deprivation!!!
I'm no expert but ours is fab at night so I can tell you what WE did-May or may not work for yours but was brilliant for ours.
Before I write it, I would also say, yours has been a little bit inconsistent to start with, so whatever method you decide to go for, I would say go for it as though you have only just got pup home..start again.

We did t like this: Pup in her sleeping place but not able to get out. Me on the sofa nearby. If she whined, I would not go to her, or even speak to her properly, but I would make some sort of noise- breathe loudly/ shuffle around/ make a sound so she could recognise it was me and that I was there but that I was 'asleep' I did not get up. However, for the first few nights I would get up at 5am and take her for a wee. Then we would snooze together on the sofa until a more reasonable time. I think this helped make the nights shorter and more manageable for her to start with. I did this for a few nights and gradually increased the get up time. Once it was approaching 7am I went back to my bedroom and she was fine. The whole process took just over a week for us(would probably take a bit longer for you now as you are restarting) and for the following month we would make sure that as soon as someone was awake they shot down and let her out so she was in there for as little time as possible.
Now she will just wait patiently until someone arrives. (I should note at this point that she is not in a crate, but an area about 4'x3' so she has plenty of room to stretch and also has a water bowland a couple of safe toys In there.
 In the early days I think this may have helped because it took ours quite a long time to house train and if she needed to go in the night she would be able to get out of her bed and go elsewhere in the area and be able to get back into a clean bed. Not lovely but it didn't last long and we would just clean it up in the morning with no mention of it.
We did the cold turkey thing with our Springer, and like you, he screamed the place down. In the end it wasn't a quick fix and I felt bad afterwards because the poor little thing was probably terrified and missing his mummy. I think showing them what you want them to do but reassuring them that you are still there and they are not alone is much kinder-especially for cockers who are so clingy.

You must be feeling really stressed out now, especially as you're now feeling like the kids are suffering etc but this is a really important thing to sort out. There will be other school holidays but there will not be another puppyhood for your dog. Much as it is really hard work you have to do what is right for the pup right now or you could have persisting problems. Your relatives/neighbours are just going to have to suck it up! It's your dog. It won't be forever. Have the confidence to decide on a plan and really stick to it. Even if it takes a month (which it won't), that is nothing over the lifetime of the dog. By October half term you could be all sorted and take your kids out for the day to make up for the patchy summer hols ( but they wanted a dog too yeah?) I would apologise in advance for the disruption,buy everybody some earplugs and teach your little pooch how to do bed time!
Best of luck-it will be fine in time!

[Landers]

Thank you everybody, I really appreciate it. Thanks for not shooting me down for letting him cry too.

For some reason I just really don’t fancy having him in the bedroom. Might have to as a last resort but would rather start as we mean to go on.

I’m wondering whether to go back to having him near the couch again for a couple of nights and then try and slowly move it away again. Problem with that is that there have been times when he has fallen back to sleep after a wee but I haven’t. I feel like I can’t think logically about it I’m so tired.

I left him for the first time today. I needed to nip to the chemist so I left him crated and was probably back within about 15 minutes. I’ve been leaving him briefly to have a shower etc but the kids are still nearby. So I realised I haven’t really been giving him a chance to learn to be on his own. I don’t know what he was like but he was fine when we got back and I think I will try and do that once or twice a day and slowly build up the time. He is now asleep in his crate with the door closed and some doggie lullabies playing!!

He is sooooooooo gorgeous, luckily we have all fallen completely in love with him so it makes the tiredness worth it.

The kids haven’t heard him once in the night, how I do not know! So it’s mostly just me affected by it which is good.

I have had a clock in the room that ticks quite loudly but will try wrapping that securely and putting it in the corner of his crate or just outside it tonight.

I’m going to a puppy party at the local pet shop this afternoon and I think there isn’t going to be a trainer there so I will ask them too if I can.

I agree it’s been a bit inconsistent although I felt in general it was just moving the crate further away from me each night which was working ok but I might have rushed it.

Thanks everyone. I’ll attach a pic if that’s allowed so you can see why he is worth it!

[Landers]

Oh and just to add I have towels draped over three sides. I tried covering the front and he went crazy.

Breeder also advised to start as we mean to go on, so she said not to have him in our bedroom if we ultimately want him downstairs as she said it’s possible we could end up having to start again downstairs.

Cant work out how to post a pic!

[IonaD]

I too started with Bella in the bedroom in her crate.

She cried for the first two nights and then started sleeping straight through. We slowly started moving the crate out the door then into the hallway.

We don’t have a downstairs but she was in the crate in the hall away from us within a couple of weeks.

The only other thing I could suggest was before putting him  to bed just try having some quiet time, so if he’s  been out for toilet stops etc just before bed, then having about 10 minutes quiet time then putting him into the crate.

Sorry if this has already been suggested.

[Landers]

Thanks Iona. When you say she cried for the first two nights was that all night long or just a few whimpers at bedtime?

I’ve sent an email to the guy we are going to be starting puppy classes with to see what he says.

I think my options are to go back to having him near me in the living room and just taking it more slowly. Or leave him in the kitchen but try more settling techniques. I just put him in the crate and he had a long nap. I put him in as I had a track delivery arriving and needed him out of the way. He whimpered a tiny bit but went to sleep. I just pottered around so am wondering whether to put him to bed slightly earlier tonight and Potter around while he settles.

[IonaD]

First night she cried all night. As I didn’t know what she was crying for I tried to take her out for the toilet but she was having none of it. We did this a few times. So then I guessed the crying was just her adjusting to being in a new house in a new environment.

Second day I wore a rubbish T-shirt all day then put that in the crate with her. We closed the door and slowly went about our business of getting ready for bed. She cried when the light went off for a short while then just curled up and went to sleep. I think she liked to know we were there and could hear us breathing and moving. She woke up and cried so  we tried the toilet, she didn’t pee so we came back in I put her back in the crate and she curled up and went to sleep.

I’m sure you may already have it but I read a really good booked called ‘The Happy Puppy’ which helped me no end.

You will get there eventually!! I look forward to the updates.

Iona

[Landers]

Thanks Iona, I’ve read three puppy books and I’m sure the happy puppy is one of them.

Last night went better. I popped him in the crate about half an hour earlier and just pottered around tidying up and he dropped off. Whimpered a bit when I turned the lights off in that room but then I sat in the living room reading, which he can see, and made the odd noise so he knew I was there. He woke up every hour or two with a whimper but resettled until around 4ish when he was more persistent so I took him for a wee. An hour later he was the same so took him out and he did a poo, and then slept til after 6.

I’ve done the same this evening and he settled down to sleep really quickly though I think he is just dozing as he keeps changing position. But he is trying at least! Fingers crossed he is settling in and feeling more secure. He was definitely a lot more playful and energetic today after a good nights rest.