Author Topic: Desperate - please read  (Read 4272 times)

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Offline Kiki90

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Re: Desperate - please read
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2021, 11:10:48 AM »
I suggest you talk to Spaniel Assist Rescue and Rehoming; they do a wonderful job at finding new homes for spaniels. Dawn will understand your problems and give the best advice for you all; the most needing help i your puppy! x

Unfortunately they aren’t rehoming at the moment but I will certainly message regarding the situation and hopefully she may have some advice.  This is just such a horrible thing to go through and really feeling miserable about it all.  :embarassed: :embarassed:

Offline Kiki90

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Re: Desperate - please read
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2021, 11:14:28 AM »
Hi again,
I was also just about to suggest having a talk  with a good reputable rehoming organization, not necessarily to arrange rehoming at this point but to ask if they have any suggestions as to who could help you, I don‘t live in UK so have had no dealings with any specific ones but I would imagine they have experience and contacts.
 
I‘ve just read through your post again and it did occur to me, from how you described your day, that you yourself don‘t appear to have any one to one time with Watson for training? - i.e. your husband takes him for a walk first thing and then you play etc altogether? I just wondered if you could take him out, away from the house and your husband, and do some training with him, - maybe start with focusing his attention on looking at you ( lots of videos etc online to help you, clicker training is also a good way to start) . My thinking is, that if you can get him to look to you for the guidance and security he seems to be looking for, it might help his self confidence. - any sort of training exercise which he can learn to carry out successfully and then be praised for for achieving would help.. The one to one would not only help the bond between you and Watson but also put a bit of distance between you and the situation in the house, which is clearly stressful for all of you. The calmer you can remain, the nearer you‘ll be to finding a solution. I do hope you can resolve it!

Bizzy, apologies -

I should have mentioned we do small bouts of training with Watson throughout the day. Just 10 minute type sessions as he just looses focus if it’s any longer. I tend to do this mid morning while he is hungry ahead of breakfast and then slightly later on before tea time. My husband does some training with him while out on their evening walk.

He knows sit , stay and lie down although he chooses to ignore those half of the time unless he thinks he is getting something out of it.
Today has been awful. Watson has been howling and barking all morning while my husband is on work calls. Feeling incredibly anxious myself trying to keep him quiet. He also pooped on the floor which isn’t like him but he was pacing around so much I maybe missed the sign that he then needed out.

Husband is not in a good mood due to having to leave one work call abruptly as Watson was getting extremely loud and agitated.

Stressful situation for all involved  :huh:

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Desperate - please read
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2021, 01:34:11 PM »
My point was, that your husband seems to be doing the morning and evening walking and is also involved in a lot of the training! - If you‘re trying to break the dependency on your husband, it would surely be sensible for you to take over the role of walker, trainer, feeder etc.
I really feel for you, its an awful situation, you’re obviously very stressed and I don‘t want to appear judgemental but you‘re clearly not on the same page as your husband at the moment, so  if you’re determined to keep Watson and need to convince him that you can change things around, you have to be prepared to actively take over the whole responsibilty  of Watson yourself or give him up altogether. If you don‘t think you can do it without your husband and he‘s finding it too stressful to continue, then that might be the kindest option.

Offline Kiki90

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Re: Desperate - please read
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2021, 05:52:21 PM »
My point was, that your husband seems to be doing the morning and evening walking and is also involved in a lot of the training! - If you‘re trying to break the dependency on your husband, it would surely be sensible for you to take over the role of walker, trainer, feeder etc.
I really feel for you, its an awful situation, you’re obviously very stressed and I don‘t want to appear judgemental but you‘re clearly not on the same page as your husband at the moment, so  if you’re determined to keep Watson and need to convince him that you can change things around, you have to be prepared to actively take over the whole responsibilty  of Watson yourself or give him up altogether. If you don‘t think you can do it without your husband and he‘s finding it too stressful to continue, then that might be the kindest option.

I quite expect some judgement to be honest as I have had friends and family irresponsibly take on pets and then struggle / re home then and maybe I am just getting karma now as I used to always say it was silly of them to take on pets without being 100% sure they would cope. We planned for a dog for 4/5 years would you believe and I have no found myself in this position.

I am agoraphobic and Watson was part of my over all plan regarding getting out more. I do a short lunchtime walk around the block and the play in the garden but as my husband is a keen walker / runner it was always planned he would do the morning and evening walk.

We are lucky enough to have two good friends who are professional dog walkers so we always planned to use them when my husband wasn’t around for example if he was travelling for work - however due to Watsons anxiety they have essentially told us they can’t take him. Likewise , the local doggy day care does not accept dogs that have anxiety.

So as much as we did try to plan for what would happen when I had bad mental health days or my husband was away - those plans have come to a halt due to the behavioural issues.

I have filled in a form this afternoon which is for the spaniel rescue - I will see what happens from here.

Feel awful to have failed Watson but without my husband onboard with me, I don’t think I can do it on my own.

We have 2 children in the mix who are missing out too due to dad being stressed and having to catch up on work late at night and mum being kept busy with training and calming the dog.

I grew up with dogs my whole life, all of which were hard working hunting dogs as we lived on large
Land and were involved in game-keeping , so I really felt prepared to bring our own dog home after waiting so many years until the children were a little older.

Thank you everyone who has taken time to give a response and withhold from posting anything too judgemental or hurtful, I know that it must sound awful that we are having to make this decision but it really is the last resort for us.

 

Offline Pearly

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Re: Desperate - please read
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2021, 06:58:03 PM »
Having an anxious dog is not easy.  None of us want to willingly take one on and most of us wouldn’t know how to cope with one if we did.  No one is judging you - BizzyLizzy was trying to convey the message that part of Watsons attachment to your husband is that he is doing the lions share of training, exercise and feeding and to break the cycle of attachment.

Cockersonline members will support you with whatvever decision you make.

Some things to think about. 

Dogs are similar to non-verbal children.  They need to know the rules and know when they are broken.  As the owner you need to set those rules and keep to them.  With an anxious dog it’s even more important to have a routine, with consistent commands and all in the house playing their part in that consistency.  Giving cuddles without them being earned is exactly what our cockers crave, any attention is good attention including being told off, shouted at or worse and yet the dog wants more!  Only play with him if he’s earned the right!  That is, he sits down and settles when asked - when he wakes he gets affection.  He will quickly pick up that sleeping/quiet = happy times!

You mention he has quiet time in the living room in the morning.  This is the ideal time to do some crate training with him - only feed half his breakfast and save the rest for the time he usually settles down, put the remainder in a bowl, inside the crate and let him wander in and out.  Make sure his crate is completely covered so it’s dark.  Restrict his access to anything else (do you have a utility room you can put his crate in or hallway?) where his bed and covered/safe space is the most appealing.  Be calm with him, as he settles down to sleep give him a settle command, I use “snooze” which is a throw back to the alarm clock when my first cocker was a pup and she was in the bedroom with me.  It doesn’t take long for them to associate sleep with the command and of course, sleep means fun afterwards.....

Forget his walks.  They are really for your husbands benefit.  Right now I would focus on getting him to be calm and in that routine.  The morning walk will be filling him full of Adrenalin, yes he’ll sleep after but he’ll do the same with ten minutes brain training - sit and not move, walking to heel in the house etc.  Take him for the walk at lunchtime so you both get to bond, it doesn’t need to be far, use it for training once you are out.  When you get back, ask him to settle again, use half his dinner if you need to.  Make sure he goes to bed at night around 8.30 pm to 9pm.  An over tired dog gets fractious just as children do......

You’ve already discovered that by making a dreadful noise, Watson gets lots of attention.  He doesn’t understand that being shouted at isn’t good.  So, deep breath, ignore him.  No words.  No eye contact.  Guide him by the collar out of the back door into the garden, as soon as he is quiet tell him he’s a good boy and reward him with s small fuss.  If he starts again, do the same.  He will be confused to start with.  It will soon dawn on him that being quiet gets a fuss, making a noise means he goes outside!  You may want to put a short lead on his collar to make it easier to get him outside. 

For most separation anxiety (the normal stuff) the recommendation is to not make any fuss as you go out but to give the settle command.  Most importantly, when you get back, you ignore him - no words, no friendly greeting, no eye contact, no fuss, nothing.  Not until he is calm and quiet.  Once he knows to be quiet you can give him a gentle fuss.

The most important part of this training is to let him know when he is being good!  If he’s quiet tell him “good boy”.  Don’t make a big deal of the first time he doesn’t howl but gently tell him good boy - there’s nothing better in life than being told when you’ve done well, right?  He’s anxious, he doesn’t understand, let him know when he’s getting it right.

It will be quite a while before anyone in the family will be able to play with him or interact full on - it may be a bit of tough love on both sides but it’s worth a try, otherwise it does seem like re-homing is the only option.

Perthshire Gundog Rescue are very good and will be a lot closer to you.  Cocker and English Springer Spaniel Rescue (I volunteer with them) are also very good but not rehoming at the moment and may have a challenge collecting your boy.

If you would like anymore help or want to talk about Watson please PM me.  I’m not a behaviourist but have had an anxious dog and have a dog with separation anxiety at the moment so have an idea what you are going through.

Take care,

Jayne



Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Desperate - please read
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2021, 07:00:48 PM »
I‘m sorry, as I said, I wasn‘t being judgemental  at all as,  although I wasn‘t aware of these additional facts, I understand that you‘re trying to do the best for Watson. I wish you well and do really hope you can find a solution that will suit you all. All the best. x

Offline cazza

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Re: Desperate - please read
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2021, 08:58:37 AM »
Sorry to hear this - I am not offering advice but if you contact Springer rescue for Scotland http://springerrescuescotland.org they maybe able to help - yes I know it's springers and Watson is a cocker before anyone points it out

I am not sure if some of the people involved with Springer rescue for Scotland are still members on here - but I would definitely recommend speaking to them (not necessarily for rehoming but they maybe able to advise of someone in your area that could help)

Wishing you all the best  :luv:

Offline Gerry123

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Re: Desperate - please read
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2021, 01:01:56 PM »
Just wanted to say that you have my sympathies! Our puppy used to be pretty obsessed with me, would cry if I left the room and my partner was still in the room. We made a big effort to get my partner to do most of the feeding so she was less bonded to me. When she was around 5 months we had to go on holiday and sent her to a luxury doggy hotel - I was so nervous that she would lose the plot but she was completely fine and when she came back she had perfect bite inhibition and was more confident. She initially hated her dog walker (just refused to walk) but then we swapped her dog walker to a different person with a different energy who she LOVES.

But your case does sound very extreme! And it also sounds like you are doing all the recommended things.

If you have to rehome him it’s sounds like sooner would be better than later, and perhaps in a cat free home with children so there is attention and bustle. Puppies are infants and I am of the theory that a solid secure start helps them naturally grow confidence and reduce anxiety, but I’ve never had to deal with proper case of separation anxiety so not well qualified. Puppy blues are so hard. You just have to make the right decision for you and the decision that’s best for your puppy too. x

Offline rubyduby

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Re: Desperate - please read
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2021, 01:13:02 PM »
You have my total sympathy, I have had Cockers for 40 yrs, and currently have my older girl who is nearly 11 (topaz) who is 2, Topaz and previous dogs no problem,.. leaving travelling, anxiety etc etc, Amber our youngest is very clingy with me , and gets distraught if I go out , altoh I admit not as bad as yours sounds, but the upshot is, everything I do I feel I have to rush through or get back, she whinges all the time, howls sometimes, and I have felt very low this week as I feel my life is now virtually over and I am a prisoner to this dog, she doesnt travel well, she has a high prey drive so frequently disappears on walks causing me great heartache, on a lead she pulls and I feel as tho I am spoiling her walks by keeping her on a lead, so usually relent, then spend 1/2 hr trying to find her. She suffers from allergies so my days seem to be spent trying to work out her diet, which she will promptly leave.....and yes I have been in tears and got to the point I actually didnt want her to come back when she ran off today....I am so desperate to get my life back, instead of it being a daily grind o moidering about some aspect of her, I would give my life for her she is the most loving and adorable dog but I am  65 I just cant cope with her disobedience , she can be a yard away from me and just wot respond, if she is on a scent she is off, o one occasion crossing a main road, and but for lock-down and less traffic would almost certainly have been killed. I too am at my wits end, my Hubby seems to get great pleasure from my misery, I think he regards it as punishment for having dogs, which he was willing to have ..until they are problematic (mostly cause by him), he wouldnt entertain the cost of any form of training as he doesnt walk them so doesnt have a problem, If I am REALLY honest, I have seriously considered walking out and not coming back on more than one occasion, sick of it all and no support whatsoever....Sorry not much help but just to let you know I totally understand how you feel and totally sympathise

Offline ejp

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Re: Desperate - please read
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2021, 02:29:43 PM »
Cazza is correct, they deal with cockers too. Worth contacting them. Apologies, I'm not sure where you are in the country, I have managed to miss that bit. Spaniel Aid are also worth contacting, they hope to be reopening again soon.

Offline Mari

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Re: Desperate - please read
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2021, 02:42:10 PM »
I do not think anyone here is judging. Some of us currently have, or have had issues with both dogs and health, mental and physical. Like someone said, a cocker puppy is a challenge even under normal circumstances, and you are struggling so much extra. It's not surprising that you are overwhelmed.

I do think there is a lot of good advice so far. Like:
- You taking Watson out as much as you are able to, if it is only one short walk, then you were still the wonderful person who provided it for him.
- Set up a schedule so he gets a predictable daily routine. With mealtimes provided by you at approximately the same time every day.
- Guide him by the leash outside if he starts disturbing work calls could help. No fuss, just bring him away from the situation, break the pattern of unwanted behaviour. Act confident and unemotional. Show him that you know what to do, and he can trust you  ;)

Remember, he doesn't need too much adventure and exercise right now, he jus needs safety and predictability.

He can get lots of love and attention, but he also needs to be ignored in between the cuddles and playtimes. If he is fed, walked, had his playtime/cuddles, ignore him for a few hours with a clear conscience.

Maybe you can agree on a common tactic to try one week and not argue about it until you review it next week. If your husband is frustrated all the time, and you are anxious about that, then the puppy will pick up on that. I know it's easy to say from the outside. But owners of difficult dogs often put too much pressure on themselves. We are not perfect, and problematic dog behaviour does not get fixed overnight even if we do everything correctly.

If you find a way to rehome him into a suitable home then I will not judge. Unil then, or if you decide to keep him, be kind to yourself and just do your best. He needs to see you provide resources, he needs you to show him what you expect from of him and he needs safety. If you can't do it some days due to your health, then don't feel bad. Just do what you can, when you can, all we can do is our best.

I promise we do not judge, but many on the forum have valuable experiences and solid knowledge to share. In an effort to get the important points across, advise can maybe appear a little direct in written format.

Offline cazza

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Re: Desperate - please read
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2021, 04:07:52 PM »
Cazza is correct, they deal with cockers too. Worth contacting them. Apologies, I'm not sure where you are in the country, I have managed to miss that bit. Spaniel Aid are also worth contacting, they hope to be reopening again soon.

She's north of Scotland in the Highlands

Offline ejp

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Re: Desperate - please read
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2021, 06:02:16 PM »
Cazza is correct, they deal with cockers too. Worth contacting them. Apologies, I'm not sure where you are in the country, I have managed to miss that bit. Spaniel Aid are also worth contacting, they hope to be reopening again soon.

She's north of Scotland in the Highlands

Thank you Cazza.  Definitely talk to Springer Rescue Scotland, you have nothing to lose at this point and everything to gain.  There are people up your way that were involved with the rescue, hopefully that will still be the case.  They will be able to guide you with trainers/behaviourist who may be able to help you, I am sure, if that is what you choose to do.  I am sorry things have turned out this way for you, and your family.  I hope you can find a resolution that works for you all. 

Offline Pearly

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Re: Desperate - please read
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2021, 10:49:11 AM »
I am so sorry to read this.  Have a look at the other post in Puppies, I’ve added as much as I know about separation anxiety which did work with Pearl.

I can help with recall and obedience (remember Coral?) best chatted on a phone call, it will be far too much information to type and I risk typing the wrong thing! Send me a PM if you would like my contact details.  It does get better, honestly!

Jayne

Offline ips

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Re: Desperate - please read
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2021, 07:38:05 PM »
I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination but this is how I read the situation....you say your husband has no bond with Watson and presumably as such shows little if any affection. Could it be that Watson picks up on this and is desperate for your husband to like him, what you see as an obsession with him is actually a cry for affection from the dog. Imo Watson is following him everywhere in order to befriend him. A very wise man who was a member of this group (Jeff...RIP) once told me via a PM chat that cockers hate to be ignored and that for them being ignored was the very worst form of correction.....that's my take on your situation.
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.