RAGE

[PennyB]

Well, I am absolutely horrified at that news!!!!      It is no excuse to have a dog PTS because it was being beaten.  My old vet used to take the money for having the dog PTS and find it a new home himself.  Vets have lots of contacts at animal rescue centres and I feel it is not their job to PTS a dog that is perfectly healthy and only reacting because it is being beaten.  I hope he reported this woman to the RSPCA.  If not, god knows what will happen to the poor labrador puppy that she is getting.  I feel sick now thinking about this.   

Annie

Difficult to do when an owner is making sure the dog is pts there and then.

I am the contact for my vet re dog rescues in the area (I help out with one in particular but also know all the others in the South Wales area and beyond). From Jan 2008 it going to be even more difficult for us to take as many dogs in as we will no longer get free neutering so more than likely somewhere along the way more dogs will be pts unless we can raise an additional £90 per dog (most are unneutered when we get them in)! There just aren't enough rescue spaces or owners to take all these dogs but we do what we can but we will never save them all

Sad fact of life is that there are 10,000 healthy dogs pts every year just because they don't have anywhere to call home

Also the reason why I mentioned this in the 1st place was the fact about old fashioned training methods still being used like rolled up newspapers (which I doubt if the rspca would consider prosecuting for) that could result in the dog being pts. Also you don't need to 'hit a dog' to mishandle in training them either just being confrontational like shouting or grabbing at them inappropiately would do it and make some dogs reactive.

[spettadog]

Hi there

I just want to make this quite clear.  My old vet used to take the money from the owner who wanted the dog PTS and re-home it.  He told the owner he was not happy to kill the dog but would find it a new home.  He took the money to give to the rehoming centre or person that the dog was rehomed to.  He did not steal the dog.  In fact, many owners would be all too happy to pass the dog onto somebody else.  I did not say that any vet would want to put a dog to sleep.  I said it wasnt their job to put a healthy dog to sleep.  As Cazzie says, their job is to save lives - not end them - especially if the dog is just reacting to the way it is being treated.

I would personally hope that the RSPCA would be very interested in a case like this.  A dog has lost its life because of the way it has been "trained" and I use that word very loosely.  It is their job to stop cruelty and this reeks of cruelty to me.  If nothing else, the RSPCA are there to educate and this so called trainer needs educating - and very quickly - if the life of the lab pup is to be saved!!!!!

I know that the end for some dogs that dont get PTS can be pitiful.  That makes me feel very angry and sad.  However, this woman should be responsible for turning a young dog into one that she thought required to be PTS.  It makes me sick to think of it!!!

Annie

[PennyB]

I would personally hope that the RSPCA would be very interested in a case like this.  A dog has lost its life because of the way it has been "trained" and I use that word very loosely.  It is their job to stop cruelty and this reeks of cruelty to me.  If nothing else, the RSPCA are there to educate and this so called trainer needs educating - and very quickly - if the life of the lab pup is to be saved!!!!!

Many dogs can end up being pts because of mishandling by the owner. As others said earlier some of the 'old' more forceful/confrontational training methods are still used on dogs and most likely in some of those cases won't work and ultimatle ythe dogs behaviour may get worse as a result then dog will then be pts --- the rspca would be hard pushed to get round all of them.

Am afraid in the courts would view a vet taking money under false pretences as fraud.

Also I would love to know how some of these rescue centres can take the dogs you say when they are full to bursting (often those owners have tried these rescues and told they are full). Rescues don't have limitless spaces for one reason or another --- come Christmas time there will be nowhere and I mean nowhere for many pets to go --- far better being pts than the fate of some who are just dumped in the middle of the Brecons to starve and die of the cold.

Also an owner will often stay while the pet is pts so a bit difficult to take out the back door.

It is a sad fact of life and while I don't agree with it healthy pets will continue to be pts for want of nowhere to go

[spettadog]

No, I'm not saying that my vet didnt tell the owners.  Obviously if the owners were adamant that the dog be PTS then he would have to do it - or refuse - whatever he considered necessary at the time.  However, most of them would be only too happy to relinquish the responsibility of the dog so that they dont have to think about it anymore.  Anybody who can take a healthy dog to be PTS IMO isnt that bothered about the dog anyway and will do what they have to, to get rid of it.  My old vet always told them what he was doing and asked them for money for the charity etc., that the dog would be going to.  He did have contacts with local rescues etc.

The Cat and Dog Home in Edinburgh (equivalent of the pound!) has a no-kill policy, as do all the local rescues.  We are very fortunate in Edinburgh to have this.  My own vet also has a list of people who are willing to help out in times of emergency.  There is one lady I know who often takes dogs in who have been taken in to be PTS.  She then finds them a home.

I dont know if it is different parts of the country but all the vets that I have ever had my dogs registered with were very active with local charities and animal welfare organisations.  We are very fortunate indeed if its not the case throughout the country.

My Bazil wouldnt be here today had the previous owners had their way.  He objected to being hauled around after having 3 years of it.  I took him in and reformed him into the loving boy he is today.  It breaks my heart to hear that this not happening throughout the country.  The strays that live in my area are very fortunate then!!!!   

Annie

[PennyB]

I agree with what you're saying its just that in an ideal world no healthy animals would be pts --- you may find that while the dog and cats home has a no kill policy they like anyone else will have more requests than they can handle especially at this time of the year. Some pounds say they have a no-kill policy but am afraid in reality it can be very different (I have been told by email by one that they don't but I do know different from some of those who work there).

Vets do contact rescues but again if they're full they're full! We can't take in all the dogs we'd like, we do what we can but won't compromise on quality of work --- some rescues go for quantity and IMHO the animals can sometimes suffer as a consequence.

[spettadog]

Hi there

We're both signing from the same hymn book.  Maybe I am seeing things through rose coloured specs.  Its obvious to me that you live in the real world.  I hope the things that I think are happening are actually happening.

I would love to be involved with rescue but perhaps I just couldnt face the real world and the harsh realities of life!!! 

Kind regards
Annie

[PennyB]

Hi there

We're both signing from the same hymn book.  Maybe I am seeing things through rose coloured specs.  Its obvious to me that you live in the real world.  I hope the things that I think are happening are actually happening.

I would love to be involved with rescue but perhaps I just couldnt face the real world and the harsh realities of life!!! 

Kind regards
Annie

I only help out on the periphery of it and thats bad enough sometimes --- however, saying that a lot of thing sot do with rescue aren't just about dealing with people and their pets a lot of it is fundraising which anyone can do no matter how small

[kalami]

Thanks for the replies.
I have just spoken to MIL and the behaviourist has not actually seen puppy yet. Apparently he said that it sounded like the puppy had 'cocker rage'. She asked about puppy classes and he told her that puppy was too boisterous to go to them  . I have told her that I think puppy doesn't have rage but is just being a puppy, i highlighted some of Bellas 'incidents  and she agreed that they are similar. I told her not to listen about the classes and have agreed to look into them for her.
This behaviourist was actually recommended by the vet, he is going to assess puppy on Wednesday, so will let you know what he says. I have decided that I will see what he says, if Rage is mentioned again or I am not happy with what is said I will pay for someone myself (I have my eye on someone). Also if I can't get her to a puppy class I again will pay for someone to go to her.

Just too add MIL has NOT smacked or hit the puppy, I do know she used to raise her voice though and we (all family) told her at the time not to do this, which she agreed was not the way forward.

[spanielcrazy]

Thanks for the replies.
I have just spoken to MIL and the behaviourist has not actually seen puppy yet. Apparently he said that it sounded like the puppy had 'cocker rage'. She asked about puppy classes and he told her that puppy was too boisterous to go to them  . I have told her that
.
This behaviourist was actually recommended by the vet, he is going to assess puppy on Wednesday, so will let you know what he says. I have decided that I will see what he says, if Rage is mentioned again or I am not happy with what is said I will pay for someone myself (I have my eye on someone). Also if I can't get her to a puppy class I again will pay for someone to go to her.

TBH from what you have said about this so called "behaviourist" I'd be tempted to cancel the appointment and just get on with the puppy with classes and books! 

Good luck and let us know how you get on 

[bibathediva]

i do understand where you are coming from Kalami as regards you MIL,my parents both retired were thinking of getting a dog..not a pup and i did think great it would do them some good...make my mother get out of the chair instead of watching crap daytime telly 
but thinking about it and seeing there interactions with Biba i have now put them off the idea 
they are very old school in there way of thinking as regards training of a dog and they consider what i do with Biba training wise as bribery  and a dog should just do as it is told because you TOLD it too
my mother did actually tap Biba on the nose once when she considered what she had done as inappropriate  i know shes my mother but she was told by me don't ever do that again  she wasn't very impressed  and i think we would fall out big time if they ever got a dog

i hope it all works out for you , your MIL and the pup...it can be hard making them see there is another way  good luck

[harveysmum]

i do understand where you are coming from Kalami as regards you MIL,my parents both retired were thinking of getting a dog..not a pup and i did think great it would do them some good...make my mother get out of the chair instead of watching crap daytime telly 
but thinking about it and seeing there interactions with Biba i have now put them off the idea 
they are very old school in there way of thinking as regards training of a dog and they consider what i do with Biba training wise as bribery  and a dog should just do as it is told because you TOLD it too
my mother did actually tap Biba on the nose once when she considered what she had done as inappropriate  i know shes my mother but she was told by me don't ever do that again  she wasn't very impressed  and i think we would fall out big time if they ever got a dog

i hope it all works out for you , your MIL and the pup...it can be hard making them see there is another way  good luck

I know how you feel my dad did exactly the same to Harvey when he was only about 4 months old Harvey jumped up to say hello to my dad and he tapped him on the nose and told him to get down I was horrified and told him in no uncertain terms never ever to hit Harvey Like you say I think some people are very old school in their way of training
Good luck with your MIL and puppy, hope all goes well

[PennyB]

Some of the books in Colins book list on this forum are very good as well