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Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: ruth_2_hot on April 23, 2005, 07:27:28 PM

Title: Worried
Post by: ruth_2_hot on April 23, 2005, 07:27:28 PM
:( have been in contact with jane who very kindly pointed me in the direction of NILIF which i have printed and read and read and have been taking the very good advice BUT , im worried sick hunny is such a lovely friendly little cocker who i must admit i adore her something rotten but , she is trained shes fab at recall unless chased by two stupid dogs  :angry: she sits and waits for her food also sits waits to go out will give me anything back shes got in her mouth shes loved and adored by the kids and OH ,  but recently shes showing signs of aggression towards the kids and oh especially if shes on my bed and they come in the bedroom so ,   shes not slept in our room for over a week shes back in her basket in the dining room , that priviledge has been taken away think she was guarding me in bed  :angry: shes now started growling if the kids stroke her when she is lay on the floor or in her bed shes never bothered before ,  i know shes at that age where shes trying it on but ive been so worried anyone had similar problems any advice would be gratefully accepted , shes been to the vets a few weeks ago and was given the all clear , so its not an underlying illness , also shes nipping at me when im brushing her and trying to look in her ears is a no no , i really am fed up at the minute  thanks guys luv ruth x :(
Title: Worried
Post by: Magic Star on April 23, 2005, 07:35:05 PM
Aww Ruth, firstly ((bigfatcuddle)  :)

Secondly, I am sorry to read this Ruth :(   I can't offer any advice i'm afraid, but just wanted to say I was thinking of you n yours.  

Take care, you know where I am if you need to chat :)

Em
Title: Worried
Post by: tobycat on April 23, 2005, 07:49:53 PM
Hi Ruth :D

So sorry to hear about Hun :(  After all the temperament problems I had with my little black girl, Sasha, I hate to hear of anyone having similar problems. :(

What age is Hun now? Sash was about a year old when we first started noticing problems with her. Not that I am likening your lovely Hun to Sasha of course...Sash had all sorts of problems which  Hunny doesn't.

If you want to talk pm me anytime :)

Take care :)
Title: Worried
Post by: Colin on April 23, 2005, 08:01:33 PM
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shes now started growling if the kids stroke her when she is lay on the floor or in her bed shes never bothered before ,  i know shes at that age where shes trying it on but ive been so worried anyone had similar problems any advice would be gratefully accepted
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Maybe as she's getting older she just wants to be left in peace when she's lying down - Jimmy can sometimes be a bit like this, other times he'll roll on his back to have his belly scratched. He doesn't growl, it's more of a frustrated grumble really, his way of saying "just leave me alone, will you ?". To be honest I think it's fair enough - I wouldn't want somebody interrupting my sleep to paw at me either. :D

Hopefully a combination of the NILIF and getting the kids to give her a bit more space will improve things. :) Maybe getting the kids to take turns feeding her might help too, using the NILIF thechniques of sit and wait - she could be relating all the good things with you, feeding and walks etc and so think you are the only one she needs to behave nicely for.
Title: Worried
Post by: daunting on April 23, 2005, 08:04:45 PM
Ruth i so sympathise with you - am having the same problems with Max - he actually bit my 6yr old a couple of days ago, nothing bad but scared the life out of her.
He has also gone to bite myself and my other children on and off over the last couple of months.

I have to tell him 'no' quite harshly when he has done that and he must know he has done wrong as he then sits and gives a paw and i can then take him into the kitchen for a timeout without fear of him trying to bite again.


Title: Worried
Post by: ruth_2_hot on April 23, 2005, 08:09:59 PM
:) thanks for all the replies its very welcome advice all gratefully recieved im going to the vets next week to book hun in to have her spay done and will talk to the vet about my concerns , but i trust you all on col and value you help forgot to mention before when she has done the snapping or growling and i tell her off she is told to go in her bed which she does straight away she then sits crying this can carry on for a good ten minutes she then sulks at me , i just ignore her which seems to upset her more than the telling off  x
Title: Worried
Post by: suzysu on April 23, 2005, 08:10:14 PM
:( Aw Ruth - so sorry you are having problems with Hun - hope someone can help you out  ;)

Take care, BIG [/size]hugs from us xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Title: Worried
Post by: PennyB on April 23, 2005, 08:16:24 PM
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shes now started growling if the kids stroke her when she is lay on the floor or in her bed shes never bothered before ,  i know shes at that age where shes trying it on but ive been so worried anyone had similar problems any advice would be gratefully accepted
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Maybe as she's getting older she just wants to be left in peace when she's lying down - Jimmy can sometimes be a bit like this, other times he'll roll on his back to have his belly scratched. He doesn't growl, it's more of a frustrated grumble really, his way of saying "just leave me alone, will you ?". To be honest I think it's fair enough - I wouldn't want somebody interrupting my sleep to paw at me either. :D

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Ruby also does this, she sits and grumbles if you touch her sometimes but for me its nothing to worry about as its just her being grumpy (she's quite vocal aobut most things). Rocky cocker often used to sit all on his own and grumble away like a big bear when he was here.

TTouch might help with her especially with the nipping bit. When I com eup against something like this I don't go ahead and complete the whole task but in stages and treat them at every stage (even touching)
Title: Worried
Post by: PennyB on April 23, 2005, 08:27:10 PM
I've PMd you the name of the local TTouch person in Lancs.
Title: Worried
Post by: Colin on April 23, 2005, 08:32:17 PM

It's natural for kids to want to cuddle a dog, especially when they see them all cosied up and sleepy - once past puppyhood a lot of dogs just don't like it though. When I'm at my sister's her kids just can't help doing this - Misty will put up with more or less anything from them without complaint, but will eventually take herself off to somewhere that they can't disturb her. She also knows to leave Jimmy alone when he's really tired as a couple of times he's given her a real growl just for walking past him while he's trying to sleep. :rolleyes:

Adolescence can bring all kinds of unexpected behaviour and the lines need to be redrawn - it seems to me you are doing this Ruth, so hopefully things will gradually settle down a bit eventually. Good luck. :)
Title: Worried
Post by: *-Nikki-* on April 23, 2005, 09:36:10 PM
Have never experienced anything like this Ruth.
just hope things improve for u all tho :) ...
Nicola x
Title: Worried
Post by: Pipers Mummy on April 23, 2005, 11:52:45 PM
Ruth, I can't offer any advice I'm afraid but just wanted to say that I hope others suggestions will be of some help to you in managing this issue with Hunny  :)

Louise
Title: Worried
Post by: Gilly on April 24, 2005, 12:36:36 AM
I'm sorry to hear your having trouble Ruth  :(  I havenm't experienced this with Buttons either but I can understand your concern and hope that she pulls her socks up and stops this behaviour  ;)
Title: Worried
Post by: ruth_2_hot on April 24, 2005, 12:04:29 PM
:) thanks everyone for your caring comments helped a lot last night when i was at my wits end , anyway bit of a breakthrough this morning , i took her out for her walk good as gold as usual , we got back and while she was having a drink i put all her grooming brushes etc on the dining room table on a big towel , before she could comp0lain i put her up on the table talking to her all the time and brushed her quite firmly she never complained , i then trimmed her paws and feet she tried to sit down but was swiftly put back up again while she was wiped all over , her ears were wiped out and brushed and she never bothered , she was rewarded for being such a good girl with a pigs ear in her bed , hopefully she will soon see whos boss and this awful behaviour will stop , i think she has got too big for her boots and is behaving like a spoilt little madam , will keep you all updated whenw e have seen the vet tommorow xxxxx need to go to have anal glands emptied i think judging by the whif this morning and thats one thing i aint attempting  :lol:  loads of love ruth n attila the hun xx
Title: Worried
Post by: daunting on April 24, 2005, 12:41:42 PM
Really pleased to hear that Ruth :D

Attila the Hun :lol:  :lol:
Title: Worried
Post by: ruth_2_hot on April 24, 2005, 12:51:34 PM
:blink: have just spoken to huns breeder , i wanted to know if any of the others out of huns litter were displaying aggression like her , she is in touch with all of her offspring and said that to her knowledge no apart from the usual trying to be top dog  :P but what she did say was that huns mum is also a little madam very confident and has to be put in her place she said she is very stubborn , she said hun was the most confident of the litter from day one , she said the same as the advice  ive been given on here so thats put my mind at rest a little , she also thinks with her having the phantom and her season being due again may june it could be hormonal so with any luck that may help xxxxxxxxxx  :) she thought i was phoning to say i wanted to go on the list for another puppy  :blink: not bl  dy likely at the moment luv ruth n attila the hun
Title: Worried
Post by: Gilly on April 24, 2005, 01:02:29 PM
I think your breeder is probably right Ruth  ;)  some puppies will take a mile if you give it to them while others are quite happy being bossed around, like Buttons  ;)
I have heard Jane saying before that she often matches the puippies personality with that of the owner, Ie a more confident bossy pup would go to a more xperienced owner.
I think your doing the right thing and being firm with her especially as she as at that awkward teenage age.  I know you have kids and I would compare her behaviour to having a tantrum, let her get away with it and she'll keep doing it  ;)
Title: Worried
Post by: ruth_2_hot on April 24, 2005, 01:07:25 PM
:) yep Gilly i agree with you i think i have said before she has always been very confident so its a battle of wills now and she wont win if an 18 year old and her 16 yr old brother dont win thats without the rest of the kids then im sure a golden bundle of attitude isnt going to  :lol:  ;)
Title: Worried
Post by: sweetie on April 25, 2005, 09:01:36 AM
aww babe,,kiss hunny bunny for me,,not just little one,s,,GREAT BIG FAT MONSTER ONE,S :lol:  ;)i know you will sort it hun,,she,s a lovely girlxxxxxx
Title: Worried
Post by: PennyB on April 25, 2005, 09:20:00 AM
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:blink: have just spoken to huns breeder , i wanted to know if any of the others out of huns litter were displaying aggression like her , she is in touch with all of her offspring and said that to her knowledge no apart from the usual trying to be top dog  :P but what she did say was that huns mum is also a little madam very confident and has to be put in her place she said she is very stubborn , she said hun was the most confident of the litter from day one , she said the same as the advice  ive been given on here so thats put my mind at rest a little , she also thinks with her having the phantom and her season being due again may june it could be hormonal so with any luck that may help xxxxxxxxxx  :) she thought i was phoning to say i wanted to go on the list for another puppy  :blink: not bl  dy likely at the moment luv ruth n attila the hun
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Sounds like my little madam, Ruby. You have to keep your wits about you. Like you I chose the most confident pup in the litter who had me tearing my hair out from day 1. Its always been a battle of wits with Ruby, and talk about stubborn. Your breeder is so right, am very sure that a lot of problems of this kind are because of overconfident dogs who really challenge their owners. I know that in the wrong hands Ruby would've had a new home by now (what she didn't reckon on was having an owner who was more stubborn than her LOL). It doesn't make it any easier when you're going through these challenges but comforting to know its because they're trying it on and you're not alone.

Saying that I have Ruby's half-brother who is the total opposite!
Title: Worried
Post by: hafod on April 25, 2005, 11:20:04 PM
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Really pleased to hear that Ruth :D

Attila the Hun :lol:  :lol:
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I had a traumatic year with a young beautiful Red dog suffering from Rage Aggression,not that I think yours is anywhere near what mine was like.What I really wanted to say was I have one now,a Gold/Red young dog,who although he curls his lips as if snarling,he does not mean anything - I know there is a big difference in this one,it is almost as if he is talking with me.
I used to dread Grandchild days last year as it was a nightmare watching the youngster with the other dog who I could never trust for 1 second -although he was "reasonable" most times with me.It is great that I can trust this one,curling lips and all!
I recall many years back I had a very dominant Dalmation and he actually bit my 2 year old son on his face,there were  marks all down one cheek.Anyway I really laid the law down that day and the dog ended up shut in a stable all day.A lady living near told me not to act too quickly as she felt the dog should be given another chance.Anyway,I cooled down and the dog stayed with us and never bit the child or anyone again.However he had to go in the end as my husband and he started to disagree on everything,he had a very good home and peace returned.
Returning to your problem,try not to worry too much as sometimes,especially where children are concened we get overly anxious.Have you thought about giving the dog 100% fresh food.I find boiled brown rice and fresh meat or tripe seems to have a calming effect but the complete foods can make them hyper as does many medicines.
Title: Worried
Post by: ruth_2_hot on April 29, 2005, 10:32:25 PM
:) just a quick update Hunny is responding really well to her new set of rules  :lol: no more on my bed having to sit for everything shes really calmed down a lot from last week , the only prob ive got is shes weeing on trhe kitchen floor when we come down in a morning , shes been clean for ages wondered if this is part of the im not happy im not on your bed tactic , i also think she going to start her second season so that maybe why shes been a madam too , love ruth n hunny xx :)
Title: Worried
Post by: paddys mum on April 30, 2005, 09:05:03 AM
Hi Ruth,
          Sorry to hear you've a little madam on your hands!  ;) I hope she starts behaving herself soon, sounds like you're doing the right thing with her. Hope things keep on getting better.  :)
Title: Worried
Post by: Colin on April 30, 2005, 10:21:35 AM

That's brilliant Ruth, well done - it's great when a slight change in the way you do things can bring almost instant results. It also encourages you to persist :D

Title: Worried
Post by: hafod on April 30, 2005, 12:03:22 PM
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:) just a quick update Hunny is responding really well to her new set of rules  :lol: no more on my bed having to sit for everything shes really calmed down a lot from last week , the only prob ive got is shes weeing on trhe kitchen floor when we come down in a morning , shes been clean for ages wondered if this is part of the im not happy im not on your bed tactic , i also think she going to start her second season so that maybe why shes been a madam too , love ruth n hunny xx :)
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Ruth, you have hit the head of the nail on this one.Your little girl is suffering with up and down Hormone levels.We had 2 English Setters that were pains around Season time,they would be all over the place,moody one minute,piddling on the floor the next.They cannot help it as all women who suffer with this WILL Know!!.One old Vet we had said lost of bitches have tremendous poblems with seasonal hormone changes.
Just give her lashings of love and try and keep her quiet.I wouldn't let the children play with her too much if you can help it, as she will be  moody.
Title: Worried
Post by: PennyB on April 30, 2005, 12:50:53 PM
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That's brilliant Ruth, well done - it's great when a slight change in the way you do things can bring almost instant results. It also encourages you to persist :D
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Yes brilliant news its starting to work already and regardless of her hormones worth persisting with (madam Ruby while even more a pain in the backside pre/during/post season, can still be a pain at times even without her hormones)
Title: Worried
Post by: suzysu on April 30, 2005, 04:46:00 PM
:) Great news Ruth, well done  ;)

Daisy had accidents during her season, so I should'nt worry too much, will probably be back to normal soon  ;)

BIG hug :wub: for Hun xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Title: Worried
Post by: jools on April 30, 2005, 05:17:53 PM
Ruth, Have a look at my threads.....I think Millie and Hun could be one and the same dog  :D
Millie is a bossy brute...and she has food aggression!!
Things came to a head for us when she almost bit me when I tried to stroke her while she was curled up on my bed with me.
These cockers are torture!!! It's a daily battle in our house...but there's no way our red girl is going to get the better of us!!!! This isn't something you can do once with Hun...you're going to have to make sure pup gets the message that you're in charge again and again and again!

One last thing...and I know that this is going to get people's backs up....
RED / GOLDEN COCKERS ARE MUCH WORSE THAN PARTICOLOURED!!
There...get the  P.M going, telling me off.  :P  :P

As some of you know, I was looking to home a recue cocker recently. 99% of the ones in shelters are red...and have behaviour issues...and can't be homed with cats/kids/dogs!!!

I spoke to one breeder last week about this. She tells me that she only sells her solid coloured dogs to homes without kids...because solids are a handful !!! Her dogs are well bred.....so what chance is there for us dumb folk who buy red cockers who turn out to have been puppy farmed!!!

I know I am making a huge generalisation...and I know that there are members out there who have angel solid's..but, in my opinion, an inexperienced cocker owner either sinks or swims with these guys!

I'M STILL SWIMMING !!!
Title: Worried
Post by: Cob-Web on April 30, 2005, 05:31:03 PM
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I spoke to one breeder last week about this. She tells me that she only sells her solid coloured dogs to homes without kids...because solids are a handful !!!

This disappoints me for a number of reasons  :( ; surely carefully selected breeding should eliminate the need to "avoid" children; why select for this type of personality? - it seems to contradict the breed standard of " Gentle and affectionate......"

Each potential home, and each pup/dog are different; to set a blanket policy like this can be counterproductive -  but thats a different debate :ph34r:  :(
Title: Worried
Post by: jools on April 30, 2005, 05:38:47 PM
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I spoke to one breeder last week about this. She tells me that she only sells her solid coloured dogs to homes without kids...because solids are a handful !!!

This disappoints me for a number of reasons  :( ; surely carefully selected breeding should eliminate the need to "avoid" children; why select for this type of personality? - it seems to contradict the breed standard of " Gentle and affectionate......"

Each potential home, and each pup/dog are different; to set a blanket policy like this can be counterproductive -  but thats a different debate :ph34r:  :(
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I know what you're saying Rachel, but owning a nightmare Red...and having a young family, I found this to be responsible thing for her to say. She's been breeding them for 50 years. She said that if these people still wanted solids, fine, but they wouldn't be getting one from her!!
She was not saying that all solids are aggressive brutes, simply that they are unpredictable and not suited to families with young children.
As for breed standard....Millie is not gentle or affectionate...but Bramble, on the other hand is very much in keeping with the breed standard.
Title: Worried
Post by: Colin on April 30, 2005, 05:55:09 PM
Firstly I think it's wrong to be discussing a particular breeder and her comments on this forum - she isn't a member so isn't in a position to state her opinions on this matter for herself.

Secondly, I can't say I agree with this solid Cockers bad, particolours good theory. The Cocker with the worst behavioural problems I've ever encountered was a blue roan, I also heard of a blue roan that had to be pts in a rescue home recently as it was one of the worst cases of aggression they'd ever seen. These two dogs aren't an indication of any problems particular to blue roans at all of course but do show how it can be dangerous to make generalisations. If 99% of the Cockers in rescue are reds what happened to their black littermates with whom they share the same genes ?

I'd say Jimmy (red) has been a bit more challenging at times than Misty (blue roan) yet he was by far the better behaved puppy of the two. I suspect that it was my inexperience as an owner that led to some of this rather than anything genetic - second time round with Misty I was far more knowledgable and had learnt from my mistakes. :)
Title: Worried
Post by: Mike on April 30, 2005, 06:26:17 PM
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Firstly I think it's wrong to be discussing a particular breeder and her comments on this forum - she isn't a member so isn't in a position to state her opinions on this matter for herself.
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Agreed - can we keep names out of the discussion please :)

Mike
Title: Worried
Post by: PennyB on April 30, 2005, 06:27:04 PM
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Secondly, I can't say I agree with this solid Cockers bad, particolours good theory. The Cocker with the worst behavioural problems I've ever encountered was a blue roan, I also heard of a blue roan that had to be pts in a rescue home recently as it was one of the worst cases of aggression they'd ever seen. These two dogs aren't an indication of any problems particular to blue roans at all of course but do show how it can be dangerous to make generalisations. If 99% of the Cockers in rescue are reds what happened to their black littermates with whom they share the same genes ?

I'd say Jimmy (red) has been a bit more challenging at times than Misty (blue roan) yet he was by far the better behaved puppy of the two. I suspect that it was my inexperience as an owner that led to some of this rather than anything genetic - second time round with Misty I was far more knowledgable and had learnt from my mistakes. :)
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Couldn't agree more with this. Confident pups whatever the colour can be a real challenge and if mishandled can be a complete nightmare (or worse).
Title: Worried
Post by: Magic Star on April 30, 2005, 07:13:24 PM
I just wanted to add my two penneth here :P  (you know me, not one for sitting on the fence :lol: )  

I have met many many cockers of all colours including many reds, the only one I have ever encountered a problem with was a Blue Roan, it was being walked on leash we stopped to chat (this was before we got Indie BTW Indie is a Blue Roan) my daughter asked the man could she stroke the dog, he said of course, and the dog snapped at Maisies hand quite badly, luckily Maisie was able to move her hand out the way quickly :blink:  The reason for the long winded post is, I still went out and got a Blue Roan, I think you cannot generalise problems with colour, its all down to breeding and the nurturing of them as pups (IMHO) of course there may be exceptions to the rule :)   JMHO

Ruth, I am so glad to hear things are improving with Hun, it could well have been hormone related, I hope she continues to do well :)
Title: Worried
Post by: hafod on April 30, 2005, 08:19:02 PM
Sadly there is a evidence to support the theory that Reds and Golds are not suitable with children.I say this having gone through the most of last year with a Rage Red/gold dog in my home. I could write a book about it, as I kept a diary the whole way through from beginning to end.
I do have another Red/gold and at 5months he is my hero,a super little guy,but still needing very firm handling.
You cannot keep a true Rage dog with or around children.This is impossible as their attacks are like a Cobras,no warnings,no upsets,they just strike like lightening and they are very vicious when they strike.
I know of an excellent well run Kennels that absolutely refuses to sell any solid coloured cocker to a family with children.If the people still insist then they must fill out a form declaring that they are taking on a solid against the Breeders advice,and they are made to sign this form.
I have studied parti coloured Cockers in our locality,talked with the owners.All of them say that the dogs and bitches are manageable and good tempered around children.There are 3 families I know who had Golds, and 2 of them had bad Rage.One had to be put down at 14 weeks as he attacked the owner so badly she needed stitches.The other one,again a gold aged 2years,attacked the little son they had several times,and the last time was very bad,again hospital treatment was necessary. The 3rd gold seems OK, but the family have no children.
My own current gold is OK, but I went through the pedigree with a tooth comb before buying him.
Title: Worried
Post by: Colin on April 30, 2005, 08:29:01 PM
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Sadly there is a evidence to support the theory that Reds and Golds are not suitable with children.I say this having gone through the most of last year with a Rage Red/gold dog in my home.
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If all red cockers suffered from rage then I'd agree - but as only a very small amount do, I don't agree.

As if it wasn't bad enough that some members of the public think all red cockers have temperament problems, it's disheartening to hear that some breeders are perpetuating this myth. :(

A red dog has any kind of problem, the owner thinks "not my fault, it must have rage". A particlour has a problem the owner maybe thinks "what am I doing wrong ? Must be my fault."
Title: Worried
Post by: daunting on April 30, 2005, 08:38:13 PM
Saffi - my solid girl is the most submissive of my 3 dogs :P  
Tia - my blue roan can be a right little madam sometimes - food and toy aggressive if i let her get away with it  <_<
Max - my black boy has dominance issues that i will overcome eventually but he is still a lovely dog :D

I want a golden one next ( when max is sorted ) and won't have any qualms at all about it joining the family with all my dogs and my 4 children.

My grandparents had a gold and she was the most mental cocker i have ever met - yet she was also the soppiest :D  :P


Title: Worried
Post by: hafod on April 30, 2005, 08:40:02 PM
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Sadly there is a evidence to support the theory that Reds and Golds are not suitable with children.I say this having gone through the most of last year with a Rage Red/gold dog in my home.
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If all red cockers suffered from rage then I'd agree - but as only a very small amount do, I don't agree.

As if it wasn't bad enough that some members of the public think all red cockers have temperament problems, it's disheartening to hear that some breeders are perpetuating this myth. :(

A particolour dog has any kind of problem, the owner thinks "not my fault, it must have rage". A particlour has a problem the owner maybe thinks "what am I doing wrong ? Must be my fault."
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I do not think it is a small amount, that is the problem.I love Golds and Reds,but having lived for all those months with a Rage Gold made me want to ask many questions to many previous owners, so I did I asked and asked and also to many Breeders who were prepared to be truthful and not bury their heads in the proverbial sandpit.Most of these had bred cockers for well over 30 years. Please do not take your frustration out on me,this should be directed to the breeders who have Rage syndrome cockers in their lines -I have been upset enough over the last year.
Title: Worried
Post by: Sue H on April 30, 2005, 08:42:13 PM
I have a Red/Gold solid, and she is brilliant with children - she barks at everything, but then so does Bramble ... blue roan and tan  ....

Can we not run an 'Owner' poll, where we can gauge what sort of owner these Cockers misbehave with ??  (Yes, but with more pointed questions) ....

We seem to have loads of Cockers here in Carterton at the monent - I keep trying to enlist them to COL ...
Title: Worried
Post by: Colin on April 30, 2005, 08:46:53 PM

I have every sympathy with you but I'm not intending to upset anyone hafod, I just don't agree with you. :)

This thread was originally about problems Ruth was having with her Cocker - a Cocker that does not suffer from rage, just a few problems that owners of dogs of any breed or colour can experience when going through adolesence. Ruth is working on a plan that appears to be working, quite how people going on about rage syndrome is going to help her I don't know. :rolleyes:
Title: Worried
Post by: Gilly on April 30, 2005, 08:57:23 PM
I think the main problem here is what Colin said, because it's a "red" with issues it's classed as rage but if it were another colour it would be a different story. I am not saying that rage does not exist it does but some people seem to confuse a bossy or dominant dog with having rage, which is really not fair.
Responsible breeders would never breed lines that have rage or if problems were found would stop breeding the lines. It all boils down to puppy farmers and people not researching pedigrees and lines properly that cause problems with the breed wether it be behavioural or health related  :( it is not just cockers that have rage either  ;)
Title: Worried
Post by: jools on April 30, 2005, 09:12:54 PM
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Sadly there is a evidence to support the theory that Reds and Golds are not suitable with children.I say this having gone through the most of last year with a Rage Red/gold dog in my home. I could write a book about it, as I kept a diary the whole way through from beginning to end.
I do have another Red/gold and at 5months he is my hero,a super little guy,but still needing very firm handling.
You cannot keep a true Rage dog with or around children.This is impossible as their attacks are like a Cobras,no warnings,no upsets,they just strike like lightening and they are very vicious when they strike.
I know of an excellent well run Kennels that absolutely refuses to sell any solid coloured cocker to a family with children.If the people still insist then they must fill out a form declaring that they are taking on a solid against the Breeders advice,and they are made to sign this form.
I have studied parti coloured Cockers in our locality,talked with the owners.All of them say that the dogs and bitches are manageable and good tempered around children.There are 3 families I know who had Golds, and 2 of them had bad Rage.One had to be put down at 14 weeks as he attacked the owner so badly she needed stitches.The other one,again a gold aged 2years,attacked the little son they had several times,and the last time was very bad,again hospital treatment was necessary. The 3rd gold seems OK, but the family have no children.
My own current gold is OK, but I went through the pedigree with a tooth comb before buying him.
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I knew I'd open a can of worms here!!

Firstly, sorry for using names...
Secondly, I too have lived with this nightmare for a year. Either all the research I've done, every expert I've spoken to is wrong, or this forum isn't open to what's going on with solid coloured dogs.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS ALL SOLIDS, I know there are many members with dogs from good stock who are fantastic. Also, I am not suggesting that all solid cockers with behavioural problems have rage. The fact is that this behaviour IS more common in solid coloured cockers...and there are many new members who can back this up.

I'm not talking about dogs who are dominant who try it on, I'm talking about dogs who guard something...and you don't know they're guarding it until you touch it and they go nuts!!

These dogs usually only behave like this in their own homes. If I had a penny for every passing random person who stopped to pet Millie and said she had a lovely nature, or every groomer who said she wasa model client, I'd be rich!

The fact is that she's lovely 99% of the time....the other 1%...watch out!!!

I respect the views and knowledge of all on this forum, people I now call friends, and who have helped me with some difficult Millie issues, all I am saying is....look at the facts!
Title: Worried
Post by: PennyB on April 30, 2005, 09:17:13 PM
Quote
I'm not talking about dogs who are dominant who try it on, I'm talking about dogs who guard something...and you don't know they're guarding it until you touch it and they go nuts!!

These dogs usually only behave like this in their own homes. If I had a penny for every passing random person who stopped to pet Millie and said she had a lovely nature, or every groomer who said she wasa model client, I'd be rich!

The fact is that she's lovely 99% of the time....the other 1%...watch out!!!

I respect the views and knowledge of all on this forum, people I now call friends, and who have helped me with some difficult Millie issues, all I am saying is....look at the facts!
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Sometimes we are responsible for this sort of behaviour in our dogs and guarding behaviour can happen in any breed. My vet (and dog trainer who's been training dogs for years) has told me about countless dogs (of all breeds) that begin guarding it then doesn't stop at their food bowl but they end up guarding the sofa and then the bed from their owners, collies can do it terriers can do it, in fact they can all do it but again its often down to the personality type of the individual dog not because they're a certain colour.
Title: Worried
Post by: daunting on April 30, 2005, 09:19:57 PM
I'm sorry but i think this 'rage thread' should it be wanted, is best made into its own topic and leave this one for its original purpose. ;)

It has gone WAY off topic now!
Title: Worried
Post by: jools on April 30, 2005, 09:20:04 PM
Penny, I picked guarding...I could easily have picked another 10 behaviours that Millie does that are awful.

I don't think there's any point in adding anything else.

THIS AINT JUST ME!!!
Title: Worried
Post by: hafod on April 30, 2005, 09:25:54 PM
Glad to see a post from an owner who wants all this Rage syndrome in solid Cockers brought into the open.It is easier to go with the flow sometimes and try to forget there are issues about solid Cockers. Rage in a dog,of any breed is a terrible thing to live through,and it is the responsibility of the Breeders of solid Cockers in this instance,to find out where they are going wrong in their breeding.This after all is the Behaviour forum for Cocker owners and breeders?.

Before I had a Rage Cocker dog I thought (being a dog owner,breeder and lover of Gundogs for 50 years) - that this so called rage thing must be that these owners were just not firm enough.Ha!! How wrong I was to think this, as anyone owning a rage dog will tell you. A Dominanct dog and a Rage dog are 2 different things entirely.
Title: Worried
Post by: daunting on April 30, 2005, 09:30:55 PM
Quote
.This after all is the Behaviour forum for Cocker owners and breeders?

But this thread was not to do with rage - if you wish to pursue it then open another thread on the subject and leave this one for the purpose of what it was started for!!
Title: Worried
Post by: Pammy on April 30, 2005, 10:04:54 PM
People - please keep this debate on topic and do not start getting personal or the thread will be locked.

As a reminder - the subject of this thread is unwanted aggressive behaviour in a member's cocker that is clearly not rage. Can we stick to that please. If people want to discuss Rage, please do a forum search first and if you wish to discuss beyond what is already on the forum - then please start another thread.

Thank you for your understanding.

edited - offending posts from this thread have been removed - just so this warning makes sense ;)  :D
Title: Worried
Post by: ruth_2_hot on April 30, 2005, 10:56:21 PM
:( oh god just catching up with you all not had chance to come on today out and about with hun and OH off work ill , im really sorry i started this thread about hun now i just wanted advice and i knew that id get honest truthful help [which i did ] , i cant believe the difference in hun in just a week , she has just been upstairs and kissed all the kids goodnight in there beds run down kissed me and jumped into her bed with her teddy , i didnt want to start an argument or upset on the forum , so thanks for all the lovely replies and help to you all , love and hugs ruth n hunny bun xx :)
Title: Worried
Post by: Mike on April 30, 2005, 11:27:30 PM
Quote
Glad to see a post from an owner who wants all this Rage syndrome in solid Cockers brought into the open.It is easier to go with the flow sometimes and try to forget there are issues about solid Cockers.
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I beg your pardon?

I can assure you that the rage syndrome is spoken about quite widely on this forum - it would be a little bit irresponsible if we were to pretend that this wasn't an issue that people should at the very least be aware of. To imply otherwise is actually a little bit offensive.

No need for you to apologise, Ruth  :)

This thread is now locked.