CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Feeding => Topic started by: Tommo on July 23, 2006, 11:52:16 AM
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Sorry to raise this yet again.......but here goes. We currently feed our two on natures menu puppy pouches and JWB puppy kibble for a bit of crunch. I like the idea of a barf menu, but my o/h won't do the chicken wings, lamb necks etc. Are the natures menu frozen blocks ok, with the odd raw bone thrown in once or twice a week for their teath, or can I still give them the JWB aswell as the natures menu ( not at the same time)
Sorry to ask on this again but I have had info. overload from the net. and would appreciate some honest first hand knowledge and experiance.
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Sorry I don't BARF - but I do give my pups the occassional chicken wing which they love. Just wondered why your OH wouldn't do it? Unless you are vegetarians yourself of course! ;)
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Sorry to raise this yet again.......but here goes. We currently feed our two on natures menu puppy pouches and JWB puppy kibble for a bit of crunch. I like the idea of a barf menu, but my o/h won't do the chicken wings, lamb necks etc. Are the natures menu frozen blocks ok, with the odd raw bone thrown in once or twice a week for their teath, or can I still give them the JWB aswell as the natures menu ( not at the same time)
Sorry to ask on this again but I have had info. overload from the net. and would appreciate some honest first hand knowledge and experiance.
Hello - yes it would be fine to give them the natures menu frozen blocks as they do have bone content in them.... the raw bones would be great too.... personally I wouldn't advise mixing JWB and raw, but if you do as you've said just make sure they are separate meals.
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Sorry I don't BARF - but I do give my pups the occassional chicken wing which they love. Just wondered why your OH wouldn't do it? Unless you are vegetarians yourself of course! ;)
My mum won't allow chicken wings either with the worry of salmonella.
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No we're not veggies, I think it's the raw chicken thing that she doesn't like. I am happy with both n/m and JWB, Baggins and Phoebe are thriving on their diet. Jwb for breakfast and n/m for evening meal. They are on 2 meals a day, they won't touch a mid day meal.
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I think it's the raw chicken thing that she doesn't like.
I've just told my friend I give my pups raw chicken wings and she said, "oh no I'd be sick!". But she quite happy to handle a raw chicken to cook for herself. I can't see the difference myself! :-\ No offence meant to your OH by the way. I was a veggie for 10 years but was still prepared to cook meat for my OH so perhaps it's me that has double standards! :D
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Dillon is predominantly on the frozen mince blocks. I buy all the flavours so he gets loads of variety and feed them to him with some whizzed up raw veggies.
Occasionally I will also add an egg (shell and all)
Dillon gets chicken wings as a meal (3 smallish wings) instead of mince/veggies about twice a week, and lamb ribs (as a meal instead of mince/veggies) once a week. Have not managed to find turkey necks anywhere....
The other day I was eying up raw fish in the fishmongers for Dill, but not sure I am brave enough...(I can't stand fish, so it makes me feel a bit queezy feeding Dill a raw one.
But I do buy the fish version of the frozen mince blocks.
I have to say, he is thriving - his poohs have always been troublesome, they are now small and easy to pick up - on we have white poohs at times, I have not seen those since I was little....
The nicest thing is that he has lost his doggie smell - I can now bury my nose in his fur, breath deeply and it smells just of hair, or grass, but never ever doggie...
MMM, even more cuddles now....
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What is it with white dog poo. It came up at work the other day......... things you remember as a kid. Multi coloured swap shop, the flashing blade, something about snowy white horses...........and white dog poo. Must be a 70's thing. Funny what you miss :005:
Back to the subject, I have a compromise. Frozen blocks when they're older...it's a start
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something about snowy white horses
It had a great theme tune! :D
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Ruby's 5 months; we've had her on BARF for the last 3 months and she LOVES it :D. Her coat went noticibly shiny after we switched, less poo and it doesn't smell, no dog breath - the usual stuff you hear about raw feeding. :D
I buy her meat from the butchers and the supermarket and raw feeding's really not as gruesome as it sounds (I confess this was a worry of mine). We go once a week, buy a load and then I put on put plastic food handling gloves and separate it up into meal size portions and stick it in the freezer. I defrost it in the fridge in a bowl and never have to handle raw meat myself (I used to be a veggie myself and although I'm not anymore, handling raw meat is not my favourite ph34r).
The butcher sells some lamb on the bone and oxtail, all of which he chops into Ruby-sized portions. The supermarket sells (in the fridge section) trays of chicken wings, turkey mince, kidney, liver, heart, stewing beef steaks, and fish. In the freezer section they sell big bags of chicken thighs.
She's on 2 meals a day, and gets (roughly)
* chicken 5-6 times a week
* turkey 1-2 times a week (not too often as I buy it in mince form and so there's no bone to clean her teeth
* kidney OR liver OR heart 1-2 times a week
* Beef (oxtail or otherwise) 4-5 times a week
* Lamb 4-5 times a week
* Raw egg incl. shell 4-5 times a week (this is her absolute favourite)
* Fish 2-3 times a week
We also have some Nature's Menu frozen sachets which I bought before I realised how easy raw feeding was, in the theory that I could use them 'in emergencies'. Actually, because she's eating food designed/marketed for people, it's actually easier to get hold of and requires virtually no preparation (other than the freezing it in portions bit). She has about 1 Nature's Menu a week at the moment, but when they're used up I probably won't replace them to be honest, as they're quite expensive for what they are - 1 block I think is 75p and Somerfield sell 10 chicken wings for about 85p.
The number of times a week she has everything totals more than the meals she eats per week, because her meals often contain more than 1 item. Today for instance she had 1 chicken wing, 2 raw eggs, half a tomato and an apricot for breakfast; this eve she had a small bit of oxtail, some turkey mince and some raw broccoli for dinner, with a whole carrot in the middle of the day.
So obviously with the meat/bone she gets fruit and vegetables too. And I sometimes use nuts (though not peanuts) as training treats.
I'd personally stick with Nature's Menu and try raw feeding for the other meal and see how you get on. Like me you may end up phasing out Nature's Menu in the end too. Be warned, the dogs may be reluctant to go back to JWB should you want to, once they've tried raw though.
BTW, I recall reading somewhere that white dog poo was because one of the main fillers in dog food years ago used to be chalk. That was banned and now they use soya fillers and whatnot instead, esp. in the cheaper brands. That's why you don't see white dog poo around anymore.
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Since I joined COL I've read quite alot about BARF. I'd never heard of it until I joined. At first my initial reaction was "yuk". For some time I'd been told not to feed them bones as it was dangerous and similar things and BARF seemed to go against all of that.
I'm also aware that some people are avidly for it and avidly against it. Reading this thread and another one tonight has made me wonder whether it is something I should consider for my three.
I found Claire's post really informative, as although I've seen alot on here about BARF its been more in general rather than specifics as in how much of what to feed them. Can anyone give me any recommendation where to find more info about BARF from?
I've also been interested to read that dogs on BARF lose the "doggy" smell. Barney is very smelly despite regular baths so I wondered if that would help him. He atm is fed on Royal Canin. The other two are fed on Burns.
Sapphi my Lab is on the Burns weightwatcher food as she has a tendancy to put on weight, but we've also noticed over the last couple of weeks that her scavanging has increased dramatically, so I wondered if BARF would satisfy her more, without gaining the pounds.
And lastly we've noticed Max seems to have lost a bit of weight (and no Sapphi's not eating his food, they are watched like hawks! :005: ) and his breath can be very smelly. All three poo's can be a bit messy from time to time too.
So does anyone think BARF would help my three, could they be fed their normal food for one meal (as I have loads in) and BARF for the other meal? Am I better to wait a few months and finish up the dry food? And my last question, with three dogs will BARF cost me more than I already spend on their food?
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So does anyone think BARF would help my three, could they be fed their normal food for one meal (as I have loads in) and BARF for the other meal? Am I better to wait a few months and finish up the dry food? And my last question, with three dogs will BARF cost me more than I already spend on their food?
I feed BARF for one meal and Burns for one meal......Molo is kennelled regularly, so has to be fed Burns in the kennels; I won't ask them to BARF ;) The most important thing I read is never to feed raw and processed together - the foods are digested at different rates ::)
BARF can be as cheap, or as expensive, as you want it to be ;) I buy packs of Prize Choice mince meat packs from Jolleys at 60p for 400g (4 meals), fresh veg (whatever is on offer) from the greengrocer for a £1 or so and puree it all up, and I get a huge carrier bag of frozen meaty bones from the butchers every so often for £1. He also sells me skinned/prepared rabbits which he portions for me - £5 for three bunnies ph34r I get about 4 meals out of a rabbit. I will also pick up meat and fish that is on offer/reduced to clear when I am in the supermarket - I got 6 whole mackerel for £3 the other day :D Packs of budget chicken wings are about £2 for 12.
I would prefer to organic BARF; but can't source the meat/bones locally - this works out a lot more expensive that Burns though - there are several mainland mail order companies that will deliver an organic BARF menu to your door if you prefer organic :-\
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Since I joined COL I've read quite alot about BARF. I'd never heard of it until I joined. At first my initial reaction was "yuk". For some time I'd been told not to feed them bones as it was dangerous and similar things and BARF seemed to go against all of that.
This was exactly me. I always thought BARF meant vomit as per American teen movies until I joined COL! :lol: And then I was a bit disgusted, yes.
I'm also aware that some people are avidly for it and avidly against it. Reading this thread and another one tonight has made me wonder whether it is something I should consider for my three.
Yes I noticed it's a bit like Marmite, you either love it or you hate it, and I never thought I'd end up so passionate about it...but after reading all the books I did, and starting Ruby on it, I'm firmly in the love it camp!
I found Claire's post really informative, as although I've seen alot on here about BARF its been more in general rather than specifics as in how much of what to feed them. Can anyone give me any recommendation where to find more info about BARF from?
I'm so glad you found it useful. I went off to investigate BARF on my own and decided to read all the books and then make my own informed decision, esp as people are so adamant one way or other. And also the prospect seemed a bit daunting, so I wanted as much info as poss. Books I'd recommend: Kmythy Schulz and Tom Lonsdale. Tom's 'work wonders' book is a lot more manageable, his 'raw meaty bones' book is great but that's a lot of reading to get through. Kmythy's book is also quite easy reading. Ian Bilinghurst too. They're all on Amazon - I'd start with Tom Lonsdale's 'Work Wonders' book. They're all on Amazon and Amazon brings up other books on the same subject once you start searching, and the reader reviews of the books are worthwhile. There's also a Yahoo group called Britbarf.
I've also been interested to read that dogs on BARF lose the "doggy" smell. Barney is very smelly despite regular baths so I wondered if that would help him. He atm is fed on Royal Canin. The other two are fed on Burns.
Sapphi my Lab is on the Burns weigh****cher food as she has a tendancy to put on weight, but we've also noticed over the last couple of weeks that her scavanging has increased dramatically, so I wondered if BARF would satisfy her more, without gaining the pounds.
And lastly we've noticed Max seems to have lost a bit of weight (and no Sapphi's not eating his food, they are watched like hawks! :005: ) and his breath can be very smelly. All three poo's can be a bit messy from time to time too.
The books often mention in their case studies overweight dogs losing weight, and underweight dogs gaining it, not to mention it clearing up all sorts of health problems from mild (dog breath, stinkiness) to the more serious like severe skin complaints. One which might strike a chord with Cocker owners is the improvement it has on anal glands. The poo is firmer, therefore they strain more, therefore the glands don't get blocked and need to be emptied by the vet.
So does anyone think BARF would help my three, could they be fed their normal food for one meal (as I have loads in) and BARF for the other meal? Am I better to wait a few months and finish up the dry food? And my last question, with three dogs will BARF cost me more than I already spend on their food?
I don't see why you couldn't phase BARF in, but I wouldn't give it in the same meal - the eating quick and choking thing. With 3 dogs you'll have to watch out for guarding of food/bones and any nastiness as it takes a lot longer to eat - Ruby was growly with us intially and she's an 'only dog' but she got over it. There's a risk they may get sniffy about their other food once they've had raw meat though!
Am I right in thinking you've got a lab? I wouldn't start him on chicken wings - bigger bones until he learns not to swallow whole, and I'd supervise initially. Base the bone on the size of the dog for dogs that aren't used to raw bones...the books go in to all this anyway.
As for cost, I entered into raw feeding fully expecting it to cost more. We live in London, so it's not like there's an abundance of local markets/family butchers/farmer's markets, etc. But actually it worked out much cheaper and far easier to buy as I can buy it all at the supermarket if I want - most I get from the fridge fresh meat section. The fruit/veg side of things I don't really know what that adds up to as she eats the same fruit/veg as we do, and I've not noticed our shopping bills go up in price in that respect...maybe Ruby eats all my fruit and veg and I just get less >:. I was surprised at it costing less though. Look at the supermarket economy range fresh meat and it's v.cheap. They often reduce fresh meat, especially kidney/liver/heart as it's not a quick seller! With 3 dogs you could buy a whole chicken and cut it up yourself perhaps? Some butchers might give you some bones free.
I buy from either Tesco, Somerfield and occassionally Asda, and there's not much price difference. As a rough guide:
Liver/kidneys/2 hearts come in packs for about £1. Hearts slightly more, the other 2 slightly less.
10 chicken wings under £1
6 chicken thighs about £2 (frozen)
Large turkey leg with bone just over £1
From the butchers stall I normally come away with a heavy carrier bag full with half oxtail, half lamb with bone in for £10.
And I buy a big box of eggs too!
Any questions feel free to PM me.
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I will also pick up meat and fish that is on offer/reduced to clear when I am in the supermarket - I got 6 whole mackerel for £3 the other day
Yes I do this. Bought 4 packs of Herrings (2 whole in each pack), for about 50p each pack the other week. Bargain, I said to myself. Bleugh, Ruby said. She won't eat them. She gets fed outside and buries her herring, won't touch it. And then, is more than happy to dig it up a week later in this heat and eat it then. The stink, Oh you can't imagine ph34r. No more herring for Ruby. If she won't eat it fresh, she's not going to eat it at all!
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BTW Barney looks a lot like Ruby from your avatar - adorable. Do you have a close up shot?
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Thanks for all the info Claire. I'm going to look into it and I'll order a book or two you recommended.
Funny you should mention problem with anal glands as Barney has had to have his emptied twice already. You also mentioned skin conditions being help and Sapphi (lab) had terribly dry skin no matter what we give her. So I think its well worth investigating. ;)
BTW Barney looks a lot like Ruby from your avatar - adorable. Do you have a close up shot?
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j93/samtrotter/Barney/DSCF0666.jpg)
This is a few weeks old. I'll hopefully be posting some of the ones the photographer took later this week. ;)
Ruby is gorgeous and you're right Barney and Ruby do look similar, we do love our cockers. :luv:
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Barney looks sooo lovely :luv: :luv: :luv:
Claire - you mention kidney/heart /liver - is it any particular kind (e.g. calves' liver, pig heart etc) or doesn't it matter nutritionally?
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And lastly we've noticed Max seems to have lost a bit of weight.
And my last question, with three dogs will BARF cost me more than I already spend on their food?
Hi Sam - Bella's very prone to the weight gain thing as well but with the raw diet she seems to have stabilised. I think it helps that you can really adjust it to the dog - they say to feed them between 2-3% of their bodyweight per day, and then obviously adjust depending on how active your dog is, whether they're neutered etc etc. Bella is on 2% but I work on her weekly ration (so 2% of her weight x 7) and then as long as at the end of the week it all adds up, it's fine. I did this cos she gets breast of lamb twice a week and I have to give her slightly bigger portions to make her crunch it all up properly, so she then gets smaller portions elsewhere to balance that out. I do weigh her meals out fairly carefully although last time I did some of it by eye as I'm getting used to what 150g of breast of lamb looks like! :lol:
In terms of cost, she's 9.4kg and it costs me around £14 per month - she gets through 1 large chicken, 2 whole breasts of lamb (£3 each), about 1lb of beef mince, some kidney/liver, 1 block of frozen tripe and a few eggs. I buy it all from the local butcher - could probably get it cheaper some places but we use him to buy meat for us as well and I like knowing where the food comes from.
It felt really difficult the first 2-3 months, I'd done lots of reading but did lots of worrying and adjusting before I eventually felt happy that she was getting everything she needed. I think the biggest bonus for me has been that this year, despite all this hot weather and her being in and out of rivers etc, Bella hasn't had a single ear or eye infection whereas last year she just had too many to even remember, as testified by all the half used bottles of drops and cleaners in the cupboard. That in itself has made it worth while for me, she's gone from a sickly dog to one brimming with health. ;)
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i now feed 90% raw food.it took me a while to build up my confidence and to convince paddy to eat it but this past couple of days he has wolfed it down :D it's lovely to see him interested in food.
ellie is 4 months and is thriving on it.she is a foodie :005:
there is always a small bowl of jwb down for them.thats just me though.i hate to think they are peckish and can't tell me ::) one of my cats tends to eat the jwb.paddy and ellie pinch a little bit now and then to crunch on.
strangely the cat loves the jwb and both dogs would kill for one of her cat biscuits :lol:
oh and we get the white poos as well.
both my dogs now have lovely shiny coats and are very happy with the new menu ;)
i have just accidently discovered that they both adore dried apricots,does anyone know if they are ok to feed to dogs?
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there is always a small bowl of jwb down for them.thats just me though.i hate to think they are peckish and can't tell me ::)
:lol: There'd be no chance of that in this household! Ruby will look at the fridge sometimes and make an 'Mmmmmmm' noise without opening her mouth, that sounds a lot like a cow mooing. She's on 2 meals a day, and she normally 'moos' in the middle of the day. Translated this means, Mum please can I have a raw carrot? :lol: Or more likely, Mum give me a raw carrot right now!
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there is always a small bowl of jwb down for them.thats just me though.i hate to think they are peckish and can't tell me ::)
:lol: There'd be no chance of that in this household! Ruby will look at the fridge sometimes and make an 'Mmmmmmm' noise without opening her mouth, that sounds a lot like a cow mooing. She's on 2 meals a day, and she normally 'moos' in the middle of the day. Translated this means, Mum please can I have a raw carrot? :lol: Or more likely, Mum give me a raw carrot right now!
Oooh -please tape it so we can hear her! Can't imagine a dog mooing :005:
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Bertie has had a diet of raw meaty bones for the past 5 months. My butcher saves them for me and are free. Plus tinned fish which I give at least twice a week.
I give Bertie a meal of fish or minced meat usually turkey, lamb in the mornings and I also include Kelp powder and occasionally egg and egg shell and cider vinegar which I understand has many benifits. His evening meal is always a raw meaty bone.
We have noticed a real change in him especially in his skin condition and he really enjoys his meals.
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(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j93/samtrotter/Barney/DSCF0666.jpg)
Oh Sam, he is GORGEOUS! :luv: :luv:
I want to squidge him now!!
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Oooh -please tape it so we can hear her! Can't imagine a dog mooing :005:
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Paddy "trills" like a bird when he's really excited......very funny.
On the kidney/liver/heart issue - I asked if it made any difference what animal these come from - any better than others? Any ideas?
Thanks.
Denise
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Oh Sam, he is GORGEOUS! :luv: :luv:
I want to squidge him now!!
Thanks Nicola. :D I think he gorgeous too, :luv: , but I would, wouldn't I!! :005: He's such a cuddle monster that I sure he'd love you to squidge him! :lol: I'll pass it on. :005:
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On the kidney/liver/heart issue - I asked if it made any difference what animal these come from - any better than others? Any ideas?
Denise
Um, I just buy what my local supermarket has which is mostly lamb I think. TBH I can't say I've paid much attention ph34r oops. She only has it once a week anyway. It's all frozen up now into portions, next time I buy some I'll look. The hearts were definitely lamb, I'm sure the liver was lamb, kidney was possibly pig. I don't feed her pork in any other form as not all books recommend it, but plenty of people do.
CraftySam - just seen Barney's picture (my work PC blanks a lot of the pictures out, spoil sports) and he is SO lovely. Ruby's a bit more red (as her name suggests) but they both have that thing where it looks like they've got eyeliner on under the eye. Aahhh their little faces make the heart melt. :luv: :luv: :luv:
Ruby sends Barney a kiss, by the way.
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BTW Barney looks a lot like Ruby from your avatar - adorable. Do you have a close up shot?
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j93/samtrotter/Barney/DSCF0666.jpg)
Okay, here's a Barney/Ruby look-a-like picture of my boy Bailey when he was a puppy ;)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a234/waisis2/Baileylookalike.jpg)
...who BTW is fed on organic commercial BARF made into patties. It's a bit more expensive, but pretty easy for a lazybones like me and he loves it :D
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BTW Barney looks a lot like Ruby from your avatar - adorable. Do you have a close up shot?
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j93/samtrotter/Barney/DSCF0666.jpg)
Okay, here's a Barney/Ruby look-a-like picture of my boy Bailey when he was a puppy ;)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a234/waisis2/Baileylookalike.jpg)
...who BTW is fed on organic commercial BARF made into patties. It's a bit more expensive, but pretty easy for a lazybones like me and he loves it :D
They do really look a like don't they! :005:
Tell me more about the BARF patties please!
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Yeah, they are both cute with those chubby cheeks you want to pinch! :luv:
In regards to the BARF patties, I'm from Canada so I'm not sure if you guys have exactly the same type of thing in the UK, but I'm sure there's something similar. Anyways, where I get them from has a pretty informative website about BARF in general it's... http://www.healthy-paws.ca/ (http://www.healthy-paws.ca/)
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Billinghurst's book has BARF pattie recipes in it. I tried them at the start (not to eat, you understand ;) :lol:) until I started to get more confident. I think the idea behind them is that you're giving the dog a complete meal - the patties contain meat, bone, egg, cottage cheese or yoghut, pulped fruit and veg, things like flax seeds, salmon oil, fresh herbs, garlic, offal etc etc.
I guess I still do a vague version of them with Bella's chicken as I divide it into portions for the month and then whizz up some veg, a couple of eggs, garlic and fresh herbs and mix in some bran (for her anal glands) and add that to the chicken.
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I guess I still do a vague version of them with Bella's chicken as I divide it into portions for the month and then whizz up some veg, a couple of eggs, garlic and fresh herbs and mix in some bran (for her anal glands) and add that to the chicken.
Does all this take you a lot of time Claire? And do you have to be really organized?
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I guess I still do a vague version of them with Bella's chicken as I divide it into portions for the month and then whizz up some veg, a couple of eggs, garlic and fresh herbs and mix in some bran (for her anal glands) and add that to the chicken.
Does all this take you a lot of time Claire? And do you have to be really organized?
I was just wondering the same thing as I'm really trying to get up the courage to move Alfie onto BARF but I'm just too scared to take that final plunge! Also cost may be a factor for me as he's a greedy wee sod and weighs over 15kg at 7 months so I'll probably be just as well to feed him a whole cow or something :005: :005:
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Also cost may be a factor for me as he's a greedy wee sod and weighs over 15kg at 7 months so I'll probably be just as well to feed him a whole cow or something :005: :005:
:rofl1: :rofl1: :rofl1: :rofl1:
At 5 1/2 months mine weigh 12 1/2 kg and 11 1/2 kg! Think they may be big boys too! Well one of them anyway. ;)
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Does all this take you a lot of time Claire? And do you have to be really organized?
I reckon it takes me about 2 hours a month. I tend to buy for the whole month but she's small (9.4kg) so I just have to deal with one large chicken, 2 lamb breasts and some mince. It's basically a case of skinning the chicken (the lamb is very fatty so she gets plenty from that), chopping it into roughly equal portions, pulping some veg/fruit/herbs/garlic, then I bag it all up, a portion of chicken, a dollop of pulped veg and a handful of bran, label it and stick it in the freezer. I skin and partially de-fat the lamb breasts, chop them into portions of about 3 ribs each and bag them up (no veg with them). I divide the mince into little portions and add some liver and kidney to some of them (no veg with these either but she sometimes gets a small handful of holistic herb-based biscuits with it). That's it really.
Once all her meals are bagged up in the freezer it's just a case of remembering to get them out the night before to defrost. If I forget to do this then I just pop to the corner shop for a tin of sardines so it's no problem. So really, apart from the 2 hours' preparation at the start of each month, it takes no more organisation than feeding them kibble really.
Also remember you can balance the weight of their food out over the week - this was crucial for me in the learning curve. Bella is a guzzler (she swallowed a big back leg of a rabbit absolutely whole and chicken wings are a no-no with her) so she needs to have good-sized RMB meals to force her to eat them more carefully. To balance that out she gets small evening meals. So for example Monday she'll have 100g of chicken on the bone in the morning, 40g of mince in the evening, then Tuesday she'll get 150g breast of lamb in the morning, 40g mince in the evening, and over the week it all balances out to 1.3kg including treats. It does take a while to get your head round it, I think it was about 4 months really till I felt confident about it and I made loads of adjustments before getting to where I am now.
I'd say if you're just starting out, don't be too hard on yourself, go with your gut instinct (I'm a real worrier on the bone front so only go with things I really feel happy with - chicken and soft breast of lamb bones) and don't be afraid to voice your concerns. ;)
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I guess I still do a vague version of them with Bella's chicken as I divide it into portions for the month and then whizz up some veg, a couple of eggs, garlic and fresh herbs and mix in some bran (for her anal glands) and add that to the chicken.
Does all this take you a lot of time Claire? And do you have to be really organized?
I was just wondering the same thing as I'm really trying to get up the courage to move Alfie onto BARF but I'm just too scared to take that final plunge! Also cost may be a factor for me as he's a greedy wee sod and weighs over 15kg at 7 months so I'll probably be just as well to feed him a whole cow or something :005: :005:
:005: :005: Nicola, thats exactly how I feel. I've gradually come round to the fact, it might be a good idea from reading posts on here. My initial reaction was disgust. :005: I'm quite frightened about the bone thing and what if I don't get it right and they don't get the right nutrition. And like you the cost is a factor with two big dogs to feed as well as Barney. Also, what if I start them on it and don't feel its right, or somethings lacking or it doesn't agree with them, will I ever get them to eat kibble again?
I think I need to research a bit more first, I'm going to get the books Claire suggested earlier in the thread and take it from there.
In some other threads I've got the impression that some people would definitely not feed BARF and I'd be interested to know why they're not keen on it.
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I guess I still do a vague version of them with Bella's chicken as I divide it into portions for the month and then whizz up some veg, a couple of eggs, garlic and fresh herbs and mix in some bran (for her anal glands) and add that to the chicken.
Does all this take you a lot of time Claire? And do you have to be really organized?
I was just wondering the same thing as I'm really trying to get up the courage to move Alfie onto BARF but I'm just too scared to take that final plunge! Also cost may be a factor for me as he's a greedy wee sod and weighs over 15kg at 7 months so I'll probably be just as well to feed him a whole cow or something :005: :005:
:005: :005: Nicola, thats exactly how I feel. I've gradually come round to the fact, it might be a good idea from reading posts on here. My initial reaction was disgust. :005: I'm quite frightened about the bone thing and what if I don't get it right and they don't get the right nutrition. And like you the cost is a factor with two big dogs to feed as well as Barney. Also, what if I start them on it and don't feel its right, or somethings lacking or it doesn't agree with them, will I ever get them to eat kibble again?
I think I need to research a bit more first, I'm going to get the books Claire suggested earlier in the thread and take it from there.
In some other threads I've got the impression that some people would definitely not feed BARF and I'd be interested to know why they're not keen on it.
Exactly! I sooo know what you mean, from what some people say it sounds fantastic but I'm scared to put him on it and then for it not to work out for whatever reason and then him not want to eat dry food again. It's taken me long enough to find a dry food which he likes (Arden Grange) and I don't want to go through all that chopping and changing again... :-\ Also, he doesn't like raw chicken wings (although he loves cooked chicken) so that's the cheapest option out the window before we even start! The cost will be even more of a factor for you with Max and Sapphi as well as Barney :o I've noticed too that some people aren't keen on BARF but others swear by it... what to do!! I've ordered a couple of the books from amazon so we can keep each other posted!
Rhona - Alfie was 13.6kg at 5 months so it sounds like one of your guys might be catching up on him... I'm glad I won't be the only one with a supersize working cocker! :005:
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I'm hoping this won't start up another BARF/kibble war but I just thought I'd put my point of view as I've kind of experienced both sides:
I was feeding Bella on Burns and then Arden Grange - both good, high quality, additive free kibbles. I felt like these were really good, but Bella, although she seemed okay in herself, kept on getting ear and eye infections all the time. Literally every 2 weeks we'd be at the vet with something else, this went on for the first 9 months that we had her. She was well excercised (but not too much), she didn't have any junky treats, she wasn't going in manky water, I tried Thornits in her ears, kept the insides clipped short, tried adding cider vinegar and various supplements to her food and water, but nothing seemed to make any difference. I was ending up with a huge vet's bill, Bella was getting thoroughly fed up of always being pinned down to have ear or eye drops put in, not to mention a big fear of the vet's.
I'd heard about the raw diet. I thought it was faddy and faintly ridiculous and hadn't even considered it as an option. But I then read somewhere (maybe on here?) about it helping some dogs who have had bad health. I did a bit of research and I think in Billinghurst's book it said that it can really help with constant ear and eye infections. "Hmmm" I thought. I still wasn't keen and it was a nightmare because the arguments were either vehemently FOR it or vehemently AGAINST it. There wasn't much about how to actually go about it, or not in an easy way.
In the end I decided I'd try it for a trial period of 2 months. If there was no improvement in Bella's health I would switch back to kibble but just try and find a different brand. Either that or accept that she was destined to have infections all the time. 2 months into the trial she'd had no infections at all - it was the longest period she'd not been to the vet's since I'd had her. Her coat looked incredible, her teeth were whiter and she was clearly enjoying the food. She went for her boosters not long after this and the vet commented on how good her condition was. I mentioned the raw diet and she said "well it's got to be a good thing for her". So I decided to keep her on it - simple as that.
My cats are still on Hill's, they always have been and they are both well, the old one has various age-related things but at 15 still has all her teeth, the 8 year old looks great. So I'm not particularly for or against either. All I know is that for Bella, BARF has been the best thing in the world. I thought with the summer coming up "well now we'll really see if she gets ear infections" - not a single one so far, or eye problems either. I really firmly believe this is down to her diet. OH, who was very against BARF, is also now convinced.
Personally I think if kibble or naturediet or whatever you're feeding is working for your dog then why worry - if it's not, then BARF may help. The downside to it is you have to deal with handling raw meat more than you may like to, with dealing with the hygene issues around that and with having the responsibility for safely feeding your dog bones and the possible risk that they (or you) may get an infection from bad meat one day. For me, I'd rather risk this (9 months in none of us has had any problems at all) than be at the vet's every two weeks with a poorly dog. I think it's purely up to the individual. ;)
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Nicola, I got this like from the other BARF thread going at the moment. I think it looks like quite a good book so I'm going to order it.
http://www.crosskeysbooks.com/product_info.php?products_id=378
It looks an easy book to digest if you know what I mean. ;) :005: I'm worried about information overload, it doesn't take much for me to get confused! :lol: