Worried

[Colin]

Firstly I think it's wrong to be discussing a particular breeder and her comments on this forum - she isn't a member so isn't in a position to state her opinions on this matter for herself.

Secondly, I can't say I agree with this solid Cockers bad, particolours good theory. The Cocker with the worst behavioural problems I've ever encountered was a blue roan, I also heard of a blue roan that had to be pts in a rescue home recently as it was one of the worst cases of aggression they'd ever seen. These two dogs aren't an indication of any problems particular to blue roans at all of course but do show how it can be dangerous to make generalisations. If 99% of the Cockers in rescue are reds what happened to their black littermates with whom they share the same genes ?

I'd say Jimmy (red) has been a bit more challenging at times than Misty (blue roan) yet he was by far the better behaved puppy of the two. I suspect that it was my inexperience as an owner that led to some of this rather than anything genetic - second time round with Misty I was far more knowledgable and had learnt from my mistakes.

[Mike]

Firstly I think it's wrong to be discussing a particular breeder and her comments on this forum - she isn't a member so isn't in a position to state her opinions on this matter for herself.

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Agreed - can we keep names out of the discussion please

Mike

[PennyB]

Secondly, I can't say I agree with this solid Cockers bad, particolours good theory. The Cocker with the worst behavioural problems I've ever encountered was a blue roan, I also heard of a blue roan that had to be pts in a rescue home recently as it was one of the worst cases of aggression they'd ever seen. These two dogs aren't an indication of any problems particular to blue roans at all of course but do show how it can be dangerous to make generalisations. If 99% of the Cockers in rescue are reds what happened to their black littermates with whom they share the same genes ?

I'd say Jimmy (red) has been a bit more challenging at times than Misty (blue roan) yet he was by far the better behaved puppy of the two. I suspect that it was my inexperience as an owner that led to some of this rather than anything genetic - second time round with Misty I was far more knowledgable and had learnt from my mistakes.

[snapback]122603[/snapback]

Couldn't agree more with this. Confident pups whatever the colour can be a real challenge and if mishandled can be a complete nightmare (or worse).

[Magic Star]

I just wanted to add my two penneth here  (you know me, not one for sitting on the fence )  

I have met many many cockers of all colours including many reds, the only one I have ever encountered a problem with was a Blue Roan, it was being walked on leash we stopped to chat (this was before we got Indie BTW Indie is a Blue Roan) my daughter asked the man could she stroke the dog, he said of course, and the dog snapped at Maisies hand quite badly, luckily Maisie was able to move her hand out the way quickly  The reason for the long winded post is, I still went out and got a Blue Roan, I think you cannot generalise problems with colour, its all down to breeding and the nurturing of them as pups (IMHO) of course there may be exceptions to the rule   JMHO

Ruth, I am so glad to hear things are improving with Hun, it could well have been hormone related, I hope she continues to do well

[hafod]

Sadly there is a evidence to support the theory that Reds and Golds are not suitable with children.I say this having gone through the most of last year with a Rage Red/gold dog in my home. I could write a book about it, as I kept a diary the whole way through from beginning to end.
I do have another Red/gold and at 5months he is my hero,a super little guy,but still needing very firm handling.
You cannot keep a true Rage dog with or around children.This is impossible as their attacks are like a Cobras,no warnings,no upsets,they just strike like lightening and they are very vicious when they strike.
I know of an excellent well run Kennels that absolutely refuses to sell any solid coloured cocker to a family with children.If the people still insist then they must fill out a form declaring that they are taking on a solid against the Breeders advice,and they are made to sign this form.
I have studied parti coloured Cockers in our locality,talked with the owners.All of them say that the dogs and bitches are manageable and good tempered around children.There are 3 families I know who had Golds, and 2 of them had bad Rage.One had to be put down at 14 weeks as he attacked the owner so badly she needed stitches.The other one,again a gold aged 2years,attacked the little son they had several times,and the last time was very bad,again hospital treatment was necessary. The 3rd gold seems OK, but the family have no children.
My own current gold is OK, but I went through the pedigree with a tooth comb before buying him.

[Colin]

Sadly there is a evidence to support the theory that Reds and Golds are not suitable with children.I say this having gone through the most of last year with a Rage Red/gold dog in my home.

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If all red cockers suffered from rage then I'd agree - but as only a very small amount do, I don't agree.

As if it wasn't bad enough that some members of the public think all red cockers have temperament problems, it's disheartening to hear that some breeders are perpetuating this myth.

A red dog has any kind of problem, the owner thinks "not my fault, it must have rage". A particlour has a problem the owner maybe thinks "what am I doing wrong ? Must be my fault."

[daunting]

Saffi - my solid girl is the most submissive of my 3 dogs  
Tia - my blue roan can be a right little madam sometimes - food and toy aggressive if i let her get away with it  
Max - my black boy has dominance issues that i will overcome eventually but he is still a lovely dog

I want a golden one next ( when max is sorted ) and won't have any qualms at all about it joining the family with all my dogs and my 4 children.

My grandparents had a gold and she was the most mental cocker i have ever met - yet she was also the soppiest  

[hafod]

Sadly there is a evidence to support the theory that Reds and Golds are not suitable with children.I say this having gone through the most of last year with a Rage Red/gold dog in my home.

[snapback]122651[/snapback]

If all red cockers suffered from rage then I'd agree - but as only a very small amount do, I don't agree.

As if it wasn't bad enough that some members of the public think all red cockers have temperament problems, it's disheartening to hear that some breeders are perpetuating this myth.

A particolour dog has any kind of problem, the owner thinks "not my fault, it must have rage". A particlour has a problem the owner maybe thinks "what am I doing wrong ? Must be my fault."

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I do not think it is a small amount, that is the problem.I love Golds and Reds,but having lived for all those months with a Rage Gold made me want to ask many questions to many previous owners, so I did I asked and asked and also to many Breeders who were prepared to be truthful and not bury their heads in the proverbial sandpit.Most of these had bred cockers for well over 30 years. Please do not take your frustration out on me,this should be directed to the breeders who have Rage syndrome cockers in their lines -I have been upset enough over the last year.

[Sue H]

I have a Red/Gold solid, and she is brilliant with children - she barks at everything, but then so does Bramble ... blue roan and tan  ....

Can we not run an 'Owner' poll, where we can gauge what sort of owner these Cockers misbehave with ??  (Yes, but with more pointed questions) ....

We seem to have loads of Cockers here in Carterton at the monent - I keep trying to enlist them to COL ...

[Colin]

I have every sympathy with you but I'm not intending to upset anyone hafod, I just don't agree with you.

This thread was originally about problems Ruth was having with her Cocker - a Cocker that does not suffer from rage, just a few problems that owners of dogs of any breed or colour can experience when going through adolesence. Ruth is working on a plan that appears to be working, quite how people going on about rage syndrome is going to help her I don't know.

[Gilly]

I think the main problem here is what Colin said, because it's a "red" with issues it's classed as rage but if it were another colour it would be a different story. I am not saying that rage does not exist it does but some people seem to confuse a bossy or dominant dog with having rage, which is really not fair.
Responsible breeders would never breed lines that have rage or if problems were found would stop breeding the lines. It all boils down to puppy farmers and people not researching pedigrees and lines properly that cause problems with the breed wether it be behavioural or health related   it is not just cockers that have rage either  

[jools]

Sadly there is a evidence to support the theory that Reds and Golds are not suitable with children.I say this having gone through the most of last year with a Rage Red/gold dog in my home. I could write a book about it, as I kept a diary the whole way through from beginning to end.
I do have another Red/gold and at 5months he is my hero,a super little guy,but still needing very firm handling.
You cannot keep a true Rage dog with or around children.This is impossible as their attacks are like a Cobras,no warnings,no upsets,they just strike like lightening and they are very vicious when they strike.
I know of an excellent well run Kennels that absolutely refuses to sell any solid coloured cocker to a family with children.If the people still insist then they must fill out a form declaring that they are taking on a solid against the Breeders advice,and they are made to sign this form.
I have studied parti coloured Cockers in our locality,talked with the owners.All of them say that the dogs and bitches are manageable and good tempered around children.There are 3 families I know who had Golds, and 2 of them had bad Rage.One had to be put down at 14 weeks as he attacked the owner so badly she needed stitches.The other one,again a gold aged 2years,attacked the little son they had several times,and the last time was very bad,again hospital treatment was necessary. The 3rd gold seems OK, but the family have no children.
My own current gold is OK, but I went through the pedigree with a tooth comb before buying him.

[snapback]122651[/snapback]

I knew I'd open a can of worms here!!

Firstly, sorry for using names...
Secondly, I too have lived with this nightmare for a year. Either all the research I've done, every expert I've spoken to is wrong, or this forum isn't open to what's going on with solid coloured dogs.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS ALL SOLIDS, I know there are many members with dogs from good stock who are fantastic. Also, I am not suggesting that all solid cockers with behavioural problems have rage. The fact is that this behaviour IS more common in solid coloured cockers...and there are many new members who can back this up.

I'm not talking about dogs who are dominant who try it on, I'm talking about dogs who guard something...and you don't know they're guarding it until you touch it and they go nuts!!

These dogs usually only behave like this in their own homes. If I had a penny for every passing random person who stopped to pet Millie and said she had a lovely nature, or every groomer who said she wasa model client, I'd be rich!

The fact is that she's lovely 99% of the time....the other 1%...watch out!!!

I respect the views and knowledge of all on this forum, people I now call friends, and who have helped me with some difficult Millie issues, all I am saying is....look at the facts!

[PennyB]

I'm not talking about dogs who are dominant who try it on, I'm talking about dogs who guard something...and you don't know they're guarding it until you touch it and they go nuts!!

These dogs usually only behave like this in their own homes. If I had a penny for every passing random person who stopped to pet Millie and said she had a lovely nature, or every groomer who said she wasa model client, I'd be rich!

The fact is that she's lovely 99% of the time....the other 1%...watch out!!!

I respect the views and knowledge of all on this forum, people I now call friends, and who have helped me with some difficult Millie issues, all I am saying is....look at the facts!

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Sometimes we are responsible for this sort of behaviour in our dogs and guarding behaviour can happen in any breed. My vet (and dog trainer who's been training dogs for years) has told me about countless dogs (of all breeds) that begin guarding it then doesn't stop at their food bowl but they end up guarding the sofa and then the bed from their owners, collies can do it terriers can do it, in fact they can all do it but again its often down to the personality type of the individual dog not because they're a certain colour.

[daunting]

I'm sorry but i think this 'rage thread' should it be wanted, is best made into its own topic and leave this one for its original purpose.

It has gone WAY off topic now!

[jools]

Penny, I picked guarding...I could easily have picked another 10 behaviours that Millie does that are awful.

I don't think there's any point in adding anything else.

THIS AINT JUST ME!!!