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Author Topic: Bailey and his terrible recall - again  (Read 5385 times)

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Offline Mich

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Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« on: February 18, 2006, 05:24:41 PM »
Oh guys I really feel soooo sown about this. :'(

As most of you know we had the trainer out nearly 2 weeks ago, well the things he suggested have just made no difference at all. Am I expecting too much too soon?

We have kept Bailey on a short line, only allowing him to run on his long line when he is interacting with us, i.e. fetching his ball. Trouble is he is just not interested in it at all, even though we have taken all of his toys off him in the house. He wont even look at me when we are out, he just stares at the birds, ALL the time. Even if I gently hold his face and try to get him to look at me he will still stare at the birds out of the corner of his eyes.
I even think that keeping him on the lead is making his obsession worse, he just seems soooooo frustrated, I feel really sorry for him.
At the moment I guess he is getting about 5 mins chasing the ball and that is as long as it lasts, he's just not bothered after that and so he has to go on the short lead for the remainder of the walk. Surely this is not enough exercise for him. Especially as he is used to getting at least 1and a half hours a day off lead (not all at once ;)).

His recall is down to about 5%  and even when he does come back he doesn't look at me at all, he stands somewhere near me and continues to stare at the birds.

I now dread taking him out every day, its just not enjoyable at all.

Sorry for such a long post, but I just don't know what to do.

Of course any advice is very welcome  :huh:
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Offline Cob-Web

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2006, 05:34:33 PM »
Oh Mich, sorry its not going well so far  >:( Two weeks isn't that long when you thing how long it took him to develop these habits - so I would stick with it if you can.  He's bound to be frustrated at first; he probably can't understand why he is now not allowed to indulge his special interest  :laugh:

It does sound as if Bailey is really bird obsessed - and you need to find something that will distract him long enough to leave them alone  ::)

Does the ball you use squeak? Or maybe he would be more motivated with a different toy; perhaps a stuffed duck, for instance?  ;)

I didn't use the long line the way you described; so its difficult for me to thing of other ideas - I don't really understand why he has to be shortlined when hes not interacting with you -  can't he be long-line exercised, with lots of recall reinforcement throughout the walk.....?? :-\
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Offline Pammy

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2006, 05:36:45 PM »
Have you tried the tastiest treats imaginable for him? Sorry if you have been down this road but food is usally a useful tool ;)
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Offline Mich

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2006, 05:49:28 PM »
No i know 2 weeks isn't that long, but I just hoped there would be some kind of improvement!  But I am afraid it just seems to have got worse, although of course that may be because I am concentrating on it so much!

I wish I had the answer, I can't find anything that will distract him. Yes the toys I use do squeak, but I guenuinely don't think he hears them!  It is like he is a zombie, he is just fixated on the birds. As for food based rewards he really just doesn't care!  i have tried EVERYTHING, from dog biscuits to hotdog sausages to cooked chicken, I have literally had 5 other dogs all sitting perfectly at my feet due to the smell of the chicken and my own dog half way across the field chasing the birds! :laugh: If he does come back then he wont even take the treat anyway, he simply doesn't want it!

I guess the reason the trainer said he has to be shortlined when he is not interacting with me is because he wants Bailey to learn that he has to pay attention to me!!!
I have to bring him in every time I say come, he never comes of his own accord. Everytime I bring him in and make him heal I tell him what a wonderful boy he is (even tho I secretly want to kill him :o) but I don't think he notices as guess what, he is still watching the birds!h
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Offline Pammy

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2006, 05:53:45 PM »
can you take him somewhere where there are no birds or distractions and start from there? Get him used to the fact that you are yummy and have great stuff - using the short lead etc. He needs imho to have no distractions to be trained, then once trained introduce him to distractions again.
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Offline Mich

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2006, 06:00:20 PM »
Well the only place I can think of is in the house!

The trouble is he is like a little angel in the house, he comes every time I call him and does anything I say, so where does the transition take place, where can I go next where there are no birds?  I can't think of anywhere!
 
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Offline Pammy

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2006, 06:02:04 PM »
how about your supermarket car park? think outside the box for this one Mich - it'll be worth it. Try your town centre - he might find that so daunting he sticks to you like glue - of course, he might not :laugh:
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Offline Mich

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2006, 06:17:27 PM »
Yup have done that, he doesn't find anything dauting, but will come back to me no problems if there are no birds around!

I can easily call him away from dogs and people, he is not interested in them he just wants the birds!


The car park is a good idea, although I don't know if I am brave enough, mind you I get enough looks making stupid noises and flinging myself about like a crazy women!  All the other dogs out take plenty of notice of me, they think I am really interesting, but sadly my boy does not :'( !!!
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Offline Cob-Web

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2006, 06:19:48 PM »
Quote from: Mich on February 18, 2006, 05:49:28 PM
I have to bring him in every time I say come, he never comes of his own accord. Everytime I bring him in and make him heal I tell him what a wonderful boy he is (even tho I secretly want to kill him :o) but I don't think he notices as guess what, he is still watching the birds!h

I had to "reel in" Molo every time for about a month once we moved "up" a distraction level - we started in the garden, then a quiet field, then slightly busier etc - I still take the long-line with me when we go out, as he is not 100% in all situations ::) At first, Molo was more interested in anything than me - sniffs, birds, distant cars :o I dispaired for a while; but I have noticed a general calming down in his attitude recently, and hes almost two !! At 6 months old - Bailey has begun to realise that life is more exciting than you are - but they DO come out the other side, it just takes  while and we have to accomodate them as well as we can  ::)

Are there any places you can safely off-lead exercise Bailey without worrying about recall? We have a lot of fields/woods here that are miles from roads where I used to take him and let him get on with it once or twice a week  :o I also found some tennis courts/fenced sports pitch nearby that I was able to let him run on daily; and I have seen adverts in our local pet shop asking for use of fenced paddocks for dog-exercising - then you can relax, and he can get the off-lead exercise he needs  :blink: It also means that you can train him once he has let off steam - I was once taught "never train a wired dog"  ;)
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Offline Helen

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2006, 06:53:58 PM »
he can sense your tenseness too....i have good days and bad days with jarvis, and if he starts off bad and i get tetchy (even though i'm trying sooooooo hard not to show it!) he can tell  >:D and it gets worse from there.

i'm a broken record, but have you tried liver cake?  it works on even the most uninterested-in-treats dogs...

i've got lead problems, our friend (with alfie working cocker) has recall problems, and another (with a tibetan spaniel) has aggression problems.  all teenage dogs. all different.

it is stage, and he will get better - tennis courts sound a great idea!

is there any way you can walk with another pooch and owner?  I walk with alfie's owner quite a lot, and alfie's recall improves around jarvis (recall is one thing jarvis is good at...so far....).

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Offline Mich

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2006, 07:07:47 PM »
No i haven't tried liver cake, but honestly treats do not work with him, saying that I am willing to give anything a go!

Yes I walk him with other dogs all the time, I have lots of doggy friends!  There is normally anywhere between 3 and 8 dogs all our together.  Bailey isn't really that interested to them he justs wants to be off doing his own thing with the birds! :laugh:
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Offline Mich

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2006, 07:13:49 PM »
Quote from: IWLass on February 18, 2006, 06:19:48 PM

Are there any places you can safely off-lead exercise Bailey without worrying about recall? We have a lot of fields/woods here that are miles from roads where I used to take him and let him get on with it once or twice a week  :o I also found some tennis courts/fenced sports pitch nearby that I was able to let him run on daily; and I have seen adverts in our local pet shop asking for use of fenced paddocks for dog-exercising - then you can relax, and he can get the off-lead exercise he needs  :blink: It also means that you can train him once he has let off steam - I was once taught "never train a wired dog"  ;)

I agree with never train a wired dog!  It is certainly not working with Bailey! I will look into the enclosed areas as you have suggested!

All of the places I walk him are huge, proper green belt country side and so not close to the roads, but I am worried that if I let him off I wont get him back when I need to go home!!
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Offline silkstocking

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2006, 07:22:00 PM »
Hun! I know this is getting you down a bit, but, honestly you'll get there ;)

 I wont repeat all the stuff we went through on the phone, but Lees dad knows his stuff he has trained and watched the training of a zillion gun dogs in his life, and he says it is just a matter of patience and the fact that Bailey is still sooooooo young!!! I'll defo try and get him round when you visit babe.

And if all else fails I'm going with my idea of a taxidermed bird for you to call him in waving!!!!! You wont look silly honest!!!! :laugh: :laugh: :o
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Offline Cob-Web

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2006, 07:26:11 PM »
Quote from: Mich link=topic=15347.msg188243#msg188243

All of the places I walk him are huge, proper green belt country side and so not close to the roads, but I am worried that if I let him off I wont get him back when I need to go home!!

Sounds really daft, but after he has been indulging his bird passion for a while, try lying on the ground and making a distressed noise...... ;)

It might just work..... :-\
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Offline silkstocking

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Re: Bailey and his terrible recall - again
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2006, 07:33:00 PM »
ha ha ha LOL Rachel if you did that round here you'd end up lying in poo as there are some dog owners who never pick up after their dogs which makes me MAD!!!!!

Mich when you do this can you get Matt to take a piccy and post it!!!
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