Bailey and his terrible recall - again

[Wightpaws]

Hi really sorry to hear about the problems, please don't give up I'm sure he will eventually get what you are asking him to do, just give it more time and patience.  Snoopy used to be bad at recall and still is ocassionally when we are out, however, I discovered that he associated being put on a lead and being taken away from everything that he was interested in and I guess he felt punished by my actions, so I now call him back to me every few minutes and reward with a treat such as cheese or a favourite toy.  In addition if this doesn't work I call him once and if he still ignores me with "cocker deafness", then I simply turn my back on him and shout "BYE" and walk off in the opposite direction, without looking back at him at all, surprise surprise he comes racing after me and then follows me..... as he doesn't want to be left behind and alone.  Not sure this option would work for every puppy/dog but it I can only go on my experiences with Snoopy.  

Good Luck

Cheryl

[Mich]

OH wow, this IS EXACTLY what Bailey does!

Aww, Miche, I'm really sorry to hear about this. I have a similar thing with Bella and squirrels - she is absolutely obsessed. If we drive into Greenwich park and she spots one on the way to us parking the car, she will be absolutely trembling with excitement by the time I park and go to let her out. She will stand there transfixed by one for absolutely ages, her whole body trembling (sometimes so much that I get quite concerned!) and nothing whatsoever can compete.

I've tried:
- keeping her on a long line (she just strained on the end of it to see squirrels)
- avoiding squirrel areas (she knows where they are so would just head off to them regardless - literally disappearing for 5-10mins at a time and coming back completely unconcerned)
- hiding from her (works until she sees me at which point she'll kind of go "oh THERE you are" and not come to me but carry on looking for squirrels, or even more irritatingly, run towards me as if she's being really good then keep going right on by.  
- offering her the tastiest possible treats - one day I had a sausage sandwich in the park. Normally she'd kill for a bit of sausage but I held a piece literally in front of her nose and all she did was dodged out the way as I was blocking her view!  
- taking her favourite toys - a chuckitt, a squeaky toy, a ball on a rope - but although she's very motivated by these in a non-squirrel park, they just don't come anywhere near for her when there are furry creatures nibbling chestnuts nearby.

Thankyou so much for your suggestions, I feel I will be shouting BIRDS at the top of my lungs very soon!

[Mich]

Hi really sorry to hear about the problems, please don't give up I'm sure he will eventually get what you are asking him to do, just give it more time and patience.  Snoopy used to be bad at recall and still is ocassionally when we are out, however, I discovered that he associated being put on a lead and being taken away from everything that he was interested in and I guess he felt punished by my actions, so I now call him back to me every few minutes and reward with a treat such as cheese or a favourite toy.  In addition if this doesn't work I call him once and if he still ignores me with "cocker deafness", then I simply turn my back on him and shout "BYE" and walk off in the opposite direction, without looking back at him at all, surprise surprise he comes racing after me and then follows me..... as he doesn't want to be left behind and alone.  Not sure this option would work for every puppy/dog but it I can only go on my experiences with Snoopy.  

Good Luck

Cheryl

Thankyou, yes this does work a little with Bailey if I walk in the opposite direction he will follow me but only if he sees me going!  The trouble is that sometimes he is sooo obsessed with the birds that he wont check where I am for a while, so it is hard for me to just walk away as I am worried he wont realise!

The other thing that is hard is that I can't reward him when he comes back to me, I have nothing to give him that he sees as a reward!  He is not interested in any kind of treat or toy, he only wants the birds, so how can I make coming back to me a worthwhile thing to do?

[Wightpaws]

Following on from the Squirrel suggestions, did you catch "It's me or the dog" last week, the girl on there had problems with recall and Victoria instructed her that she should make herself more interesting than anything else that her dog was chasing/looking at, it seemed to work for her dog, Victoria had the girl running away from the dog and once it reached her she had to continue running for a bit and then praise and reward, she also got her to call the dog back to her and then get down on all fours with her bum in the air (guess this would look really silly, if you were seen doing this) to great her dog.  Both of these ideas worked for the girl and her dog, so maybe worth trying.....

Cheryl

[Mich]

I've tried all of these except the bum in the air thing, as I might block out the sun !!!  No seriously all of these things work the first couple of times, then he looks at me as if to say, yes mum you did that last week the birds are far more interesting!

[clairep4]

Thankyou so much for your suggestions, I feel I will be shouting BIRDS at the top of my lungs very soon!

   Be prepared though, I got (and still do) some very strange looks. I had one old lady who started mouthing off at me for encouraging my dog to kill squirrels   . I did try and point out that I was trying to do the opposite and that anyway with Bella's particular hunting method (watch your prey for absolutely ages, wait for it to climb up something you can't possibly climb and THEN chase it as if your life depends on it  ) was not all that likely to result in any dead squirrels, but to no avail, she thought I was the devil incarnate  

[Cob-Web]

I wish I had an answer to this one.  Ben is after 'humping material' all the time .  The only thing that works under usual circumstances is me shouting 'I'm going now' and running in the opposite direction.  If there is a girl (or attractive boy  ) I have no chance!  He does seem to panic if he loses me so I play on this    But as i've learnt to my cost, he doesn't care if  is available.  He was castrated 3 days ago but it hasn't made any difference yet  I'll have to wait a couple of months to see the true result (if any). 

Slightly off topic - but you may find that its age, rather than hormones, that solves this one - its only in the last 3 months or so that I have been able to rely on Molo to recall away from other dogs (male, female, neutered, entire - he wasn't fussy, he just wanted to play) 

[Mich]

I already get many strange looks!  Today when I was jumping up and down, waving my arms about and squealing like a mad women, I could see a little girl pointing at me, I'm sure she was asking her mum "What is that women doing?" All that just because he chased the ball

[Helen]

me again mich....what did i do on sat night??? well, i searched out all my training sheets to see if i can add anything else (alfie's dad can be at his wits end when alfie goes off on one... so i know how you must feel...)

and claire is spot on re the 'look bailey, birds' thing - the trick can be reverse pyschology and letting bailey think you're giving him permission to chase the birds - and praise him for it.  the other thing i hunted out was teaching control with controllable objects like a frisbee (it's in the air, he should love it!) and of course just ignoring his unwanted behaviour - coming back to you must be the most interesting thing around.

and the best advice our trainer ever gave was to only give a command when you know they will obey - so only call bailey when he's on the way back to you.

do you use a whistle??  

[Mich]

me again mich....what did i do on sat night??? well, i searched out all my training sheets to see if i can add anything else (alfie's dad can be at his wits end when alfie goes off on one... so i know how you must feel...)

and claire is spot on re the 'look bailey, birds' thing - the trick can be reverse pyschology and letting bailey think you're giving him permission to chase the birds - and praise him for it.  the other thing i hunted out was teaching control with controllable objects like a frisbee (it's in the air, he should love it!) and of course just ignoring his unwanted behaviour - coming back to you must be the most interesting thing around.

and the best advice our trainer ever gave was to only give a command when you know they will obey - so only call bailey when he's on the way back to you.

do you use a whistle??  

Ahhh thanks so much hun

Bailey is NEVER on his way back to me! I like the frisbee idea, it will stay in the air a longer time than a ball and that may keep him more motivated!

I did used to use a whistle, but when Bailey ran off on Wednesday, I lost it trying to get him back!  Have ordered a new one tonight!

[Helen]

he's such a little tyke! but a gorgeous one....

you will get through this mich, and bailey will be fine - he's a bleedin' bird dog unfortunately 

failing the frisbee, do you have a chuckit??? makes tennis balls very appealing! (another air concept!)


the whistle is good, if you're anything like me when i call jarvis you can tell EVERY emotion going on - with a whistle he can't tell how i'm feeling!

this is how we were whistle taught (sorry if you've got all the info anyway...)


prior to feeding, blow a whistle, get the dogs food ready and feed. prior to going for a walk, blow the whistle and then get the dogs lead. prior to playing a game, or anything that the dog looks forward to, blow the whistle - the dog will soon learn that the whistle means reward.  now whistle your dog in the garden without distractions and only reward the good recalls - send him straight back with a 'go play' (or find the birdie in someone elses case!) to show you're still in control. once he's mastered that, back to the park.

when i whistle jarv, i only try twice - if he doesn't come back on the second one (usually as his head is underground communicating with moles.....) i either walk towards him to get his attention and once we have eye contact i turn around (no word/whistle/call) and walk the other way - and he comes hurtling! (then he gets rewarded big time with his tennis ball being thrown or a treat)

xx h

[Mich]

Thankyou so much, I hadn't heard that before and as soon as I get the new whistle I will begin! Just felt the need for the policeman, with all the whistle talk

[PennyB]

me again mich....what did i do on sat night??? well, i searched out all my training sheets to see if i can add anything else (alfie's dad can be at his wits end when alfie goes off on one... so i know how you must feel...)

and claire is spot on re the 'look bailey, birds' thing - the trick can be reverse pyschology and letting bailey think you're giving him permission to chase the birds - and praise him for it.  the other thing i hunted out was teaching control with controllable objects like a frisbee (it's in the air, he should love it!) and of course just ignoring his unwanted behaviour - coming back to you must be the most interesting thing around.

and the best advice our trainer ever gave was to only give a command when you know they will obey - so only call bailey when he's on the way back to you.

do you use a whistle??  

Ahhh thanks so much hun

Bailey is NEVER on his way back to me! I like the frisbee idea, it will stay in the air a longer time than a ball and that may keep him more motivated!

I did used to use a whistle, but when Bailey ran off on Wednesday, I lost it trying to get him back!  Have ordered a new one tonight!

When I bought my gundog whistle I also bought a lanyard as well so its round my neck at all times and never gets lost.

Have you thought of using tennis courts to help with some recall (they're not really in use at this time of the year).

Also you say you're just about to start obedience training with him does this mean you haven't done any yet

[Mich]

Although I have been trying to train him myself (obviously not well enough!!)  he hasn't been to any official classes!

I have been trying to find some since November, many around here are only in the day times which is not any good to me.  I went to  look at a couple of different classes but didn't like them!  For different reasons, one being the use of choke chains!  So it has taken me a while to find one I am happy with. He starts in about a week, so I am hoping this will help, probably more with me than him !!


I just had a half an hour session with Bailey in a friends back garden - very big and enclosed.  It was much better, I only called him when I thought he would come back to me and his recall was at about 50%. I will just keep going for as long as it takes, maybe I am expecting too much too soon, but I only want him to come back to me so that he can have a good time running around off lead!

[Top Barks]

Hi michelle,what a saga.

Your trainers advice seems fairly sound to me.
Do you use a clicker?
If so I would sit down in a quiet room and every time the dog looked at me I would click and feed something really yummy.
You need your dog to pay attention to you because without attention on you you will not be able to train squat.
Think about what your dog likes. Birds by the sound of it, with Doug it was rabbits so i got him what he wanted which came in the form of a rabbit skin covered training Dummy.
 You can get feather covered training lures, look on the turner and richards website, which is where i get the rabbit dummies for Doug.
Start playing with this at home and try and get him into it.
Then build up the distractions very slowly.
the dog has to become obsessed by this object if it is going to recall for it and this may or may not happen depending on how stimulating the dog finds the item.
There fore you must control the item at all times and it must only be given to the dog when he returns to you.
Here's something else you could try.
Rather than using a verbal cue, why don't you get a whistle, I use an achme 210.5 and I usetwo short blasts for Doug and continuous short blasts for ollie.
This whistle needs to be conditioned ie the dog needs to know that when it heres the whistle it knows exactly what it has to do and what will happen if it complies.
In our case I set up a recall again to start with in the house made sure the dog new I had something it wanted and when the dog started towards me I introduced the whistle.
I would feed really high value food which for us was roast beef and chicken and feed small bits for at least 30 seconds.
The dog soon learned that the whistle meant yummy food and now I can see Ollie who had a terrible recall licking his lips in anticipation on his way to me.Only use your chosen cue when you are 100% sure your dog will come and use the cue only once.Always feed high value food for at least 30 seconds.Build up distractions very gradually.
This process can take anything up to a year so don't get downhearted after a matter of weeks.
Remember what your dog is bred to do and try and find a way to turn this to your advantage.
Always set your self up to succeed The more failures you have the harder it will be to condition a recall cue. Use a long line which is what I'm having to do with Bayley until you have a strong recall and still use it if distractions are present.
You must be able to try and take the dogs focus from the distractions and fix it firmly on you.
Get and Find out how to use a clicker if you have n't already as they can be a great tool for acchieving this.
Sorry if it's a bit jumbled and I hope this makes sense but I'm a bit under the weather with a cold and my head aint functioning to well today.
If you want to talk then Just Pm me again and I will sen you my number so we can have a chat.
Hope some of this helps Michelle.
Mark