Author Topic: BARF sort of again  (Read 11117 times)

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Offline Tommo

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BARF sort of again
« on: July 23, 2006, 11:52:16 AM »
Sorry to raise this yet again.......but here goes. We currently feed our two on natures menu puppy pouches and JWB puppy kibble for a bit of crunch. I like the idea of a  barf menu, but my o/h won't do the chicken wings, lamb necks etc. Are the natures menu frozen blocks ok, with the odd raw bone thrown in once or twice a week for their teath, or can I still give them the JWB aswell as the natures menu ( not at the same time)
Sorry to ask on this again but I have had info. overload from the net. and would appreciate some honest first hand knowledge and experiance.

Offline Rhona W

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Re: BARF sort of again
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2006, 12:00:15 PM »
Sorry I don't BARF - but I do give my pups the occassional chicken wing which they love. Just wondered why your OH wouldn't do it? Unless you are vegetarians yourself of course! ;)

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Re: BARF sort of again
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2006, 12:17:28 PM »
Sorry to raise this yet again.......but here goes. We currently feed our two on natures menu puppy pouches and JWB puppy kibble for a bit of crunch. I like the idea of a  barf menu, but my o/h won't do the chicken wings, lamb necks etc. Are the natures menu frozen blocks ok, with the odd raw bone thrown in once or twice a week for their teath, or can I still give them the JWB aswell as the natures menu ( not at the same time)
Sorry to ask on this again but I have had info. overload from the net. and would appreciate some honest first hand knowledge and experiance.

Hello - yes it would be fine to give them the natures menu frozen blocks as they do have bone content in them.... the raw bones would be great too.... personally I wouldn't advise mixing JWB and raw, but if you do as you've said just make sure they are separate meals.

Offline Cayley

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Re: BARF sort of again
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2006, 12:19:05 PM »
Sorry I don't BARF - but I do give my pups the occassional chicken wing which they love. Just wondered why your OH wouldn't do it? Unless you are vegetarians yourself of course! ;)

My mum won't allow chicken wings either with the worry of salmonella.
Cayley.

Offline Tommo

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Re: BARF sort of again
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2006, 01:37:23 PM »
No we're not veggies, I think it's the raw chicken thing that she doesn't like. I am happy with both n/m and JWB, Baggins and Phoebe are thriving on their diet. Jwb for breakfast and n/m for evening meal. They are on 2 meals a day, they won't touch a mid day meal.

Offline Rhona W

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Re: BARF sort of again
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2006, 01:55:58 PM »
I think it's the raw chicken thing that she doesn't like.
I've just told my friend I give my pups raw chicken wings and she said, "oh no I'd be sick!". But she quite happy to handle a raw chicken to cook for herself. I can't see the difference myself!  :-\ No offence meant to your OH by the way. I was a veggie for 10 years but was still prepared to cook meat for my OH so perhaps it's me that has double standards!  :D

Offline Petra

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Re: BARF sort of again
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2006, 02:05:53 PM »
Dillon is predominantly on the frozen mince blocks.   I buy all the flavours so he gets loads of variety and feed them to him with some whizzed up raw veggies.

Occasionally I will also add an egg (shell and all)

Dillon gets chicken wings as a meal (3 smallish wings) instead of mince/veggies about twice a week, and lamb ribs (as a meal instead of mince/veggies) once a week.  Have not managed to find turkey necks anywhere....
The other day I was eying up raw fish in the fishmongers for Dill, but not sure I am brave enough...(I can't stand fish, so it makes me feel a bit queezy feeding Dill a raw one.
But I do buy the fish version of the frozen mince blocks.

I have to say, he is thriving - his poohs have always been troublesome, they are now small and easy to pick up - on we have white poohs at times, I have not seen those since I was little....
The nicest thing is that he has lost his doggie smell - I can now bury my nose in his fur, breath deeply and it smells just of hair, or grass, but never ever doggie...
MMM, even more cuddles now....


Petra


Offline Tommo

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Re: BARF sort of again
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2006, 07:24:05 PM »
What is it with white dog poo. It came up at work the other day......... things you remember as a kid. Multi coloured swap shop, the flashing blade, something about snowy white horses...........and white dog poo. Must be a 70's thing. Funny what you miss :005:

Back to the subject, I have a compromise. Frozen blocks when they're older...it's a start

Offline Rhona W

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Re: BARF sort of again
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2006, 08:25:17 PM »
something about snowy white horses
It had a great theme tune!  :D

Offline Claire

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Re: BARF sort of again
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2006, 09:07:26 PM »
Ruby's 5 months; we've had her on BARF for the last 3 months and she LOVES it :D.  Her coat went noticibly shiny after we switched, less poo and it doesn't smell, no dog breath - the usual stuff you hear about raw feeding. :D

I buy her meat from the butchers and the supermarket and raw feeding's really not as gruesome as it sounds (I confess this was a worry of mine).  We go once a week, buy a load and then I put on put plastic food handling gloves and separate it up into meal size portions and stick it in the freezer.  I defrost it in the fridge in a bowl and never have to handle raw meat myself (I used to be a veggie myself and although I'm not anymore, handling raw meat is not my favourite ph34r). 

The butcher sells some lamb on the bone and oxtail, all of which he chops into Ruby-sized portions.  The supermarket sells (in the fridge section) trays of chicken wings, turkey mince, kidney, liver, heart, stewing beef steaks, and fish.  In the freezer section they sell big bags of chicken thighs.

She's on 2 meals a day, and gets (roughly)
* chicken 5-6 times a week
* turkey 1-2 times a week (not too often as I buy it in mince form and so there's no bone to clean her teeth
* kidney OR liver OR heart 1-2 times a week
* Beef (oxtail or otherwise) 4-5 times a week
* Lamb 4-5 times a week
* Raw egg incl. shell 4-5 times a week (this is her absolute favourite)
* Fish 2-3 times a week

We also have some Nature's Menu frozen sachets which I bought before I realised how easy raw feeding was, in the theory that I could use them 'in emergencies'.  Actually, because she's eating food designed/marketed for people, it's actually easier to get hold of and requires virtually no preparation (other than the freezing it in portions bit).  She has about 1 Nature's Menu a week at the moment, but when they're used up I probably won't replace them to be honest, as they're quite expensive for what they are - 1 block I think is 75p and Somerfield sell 10 chicken wings for about 85p.

The number of times a week she has everything totals more than the meals she eats per week, because her meals often contain more than 1 item.  Today for instance she had 1 chicken wing, 2 raw eggs, half a tomato and an apricot for breakfast; this eve she had a small bit of oxtail, some turkey mince and some raw broccoli for dinner, with a whole carrot in the middle of the day.
So obviously with the meat/bone she gets fruit and vegetables too.  And I sometimes use nuts (though not peanuts) as training treats.

I'd personally stick with Nature's Menu and try raw feeding for the other meal and see how you get on.  Like me you may end up phasing out Nature's Menu in the end too.  Be warned, the dogs may be reluctant to go back to JWB should you want to, once they've tried raw though.

BTW, I recall reading somewhere that white dog poo was because one of the main fillers in dog food years ago used to be chalk.  That was banned and now they use soya fillers and whatnot instead, esp. in the cheaper brands.  That's why you don't see white dog poo around anymore.

Offline CraftySam

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Re: BARF sort of again
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2006, 09:44:21 PM »
Since I joined COL I've read quite alot about BARF. I'd never heard of it until I joined. At first my initial reaction was "yuk".  For some time I'd been told not to feed them bones as it was dangerous and similar things and BARF seemed to go against all of that.
I'm also aware that some people are avidly for it and avidly against it. Reading this thread and another one tonight has made me wonder whether it is something I should consider for my three.

I found Claire's post really informative, as although I've seen alot on here about BARF its been more in general rather than specifics as in how much of what to feed them.  Can anyone give me any recommendation where to find more info about BARF from?

I've also been interested to read that dogs on BARF lose the "doggy" smell. Barney is very smelly despite regular baths so I wondered if that would help him. He atm is fed on Royal Canin. The other two are fed on Burns.
Sapphi my Lab is on the Burns weightwatcher food as she has a tendancy to put on weight, but we've also noticed over the last couple of weeks that her scavanging has increased dramatically, so I wondered if BARF would satisfy her more, without gaining the pounds.
And lastly we've noticed Max seems to have lost a bit of weight (and no Sapphi's not eating his food, they are watched like hawks!  :005: ) and his breath can be very smelly.  All three poo's can be a bit messy from time to time too.

So does anyone think BARF would help my three, could they be fed their normal food for one meal (as I have loads in) and BARF for the other meal? Am I better to wait a few months and finish up the dry food? And my last question, with three dogs will BARF cost me more than I already spend on their food?
Sam is mum to - Sapphi (working black Lab 5 1/2 yrs), Max (Golden Retriever 4 yrs) Morgan (American Cocker 2 1/2yrs) and mum in spirit to Barney (English Cocker 3 1/2 yrs now living in Scotland)

Offline Cob-Web

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Re: BARF sort of again
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2006, 09:57:09 PM »
So does anyone think BARF would help my three, could they be fed their normal food for one meal (as I have loads in) and BARF for the other meal? Am I better to wait a few months and finish up the dry food? And my last question, with three dogs will BARF cost me more than I already spend on their food?

I feed BARF for one meal and Burns for one meal......Molo is kennelled regularly, so has to be fed Burns in the kennels; I won't ask them to BARF  ;) The most important thing I read is never to feed raw and processed together - the foods are digested at different rates  ::)

BARF can be as cheap, or as expensive, as you want it to be  ;) I buy packs of Prize Choice mince meat packs from Jolleys at 60p for 400g (4 meals), fresh veg (whatever is on offer) from the greengrocer for a £1 or so and puree it all up, and I get a huge carrier bag of frozen meaty bones from the butchers every so often for £1.  He also sells me skinned/prepared rabbits which he portions for me - £5 for three bunnies  ph34r I get about 4 meals out of a rabbit. I will also pick up meat and fish that is on offer/reduced to clear when I am in the supermarket - I got 6 whole mackerel for £3 the other day  :D Packs of budget chicken wings are about £2 for 12.

I would prefer to  organic BARF; but can't source the meat/bones locally - this works out a lot more expensive that Burns though - there are several mainland mail order companies that will deliver an organic BARF menu to your door if you prefer organic  :-\
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Offline Claire

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Re: BARF sort of again
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2006, 10:22:32 PM »
Since I joined COL I've read quite alot about BARF. I'd never heard of it until I joined. At first my initial reaction was "yuk".  For some time I'd been told not to feed them bones as it was dangerous and similar things and BARF seemed to go against all of that.
This was exactly me.  I always thought BARF meant vomit as per American teen movies until I joined COL! :lol:  And then I was a bit disgusted, yes.
I'm also aware that some people are avidly for it and avidly against it. Reading this thread and another one tonight has made me wonder whether it is something I should consider for my three.
Yes I noticed it's a bit like Marmite, you either love it or you hate it, and I never thought I'd end up so passionate about it...but after reading all the books I did, and starting Ruby on it, I'm firmly in the love it camp!
I found Claire's post really informative, as although I've seen alot on here about BARF its been more in general rather than specifics as in how much of what to feed them.  Can anyone give me any recommendation where to find more info about BARF from?
I'm so glad you found it useful.  I went off to investigate BARF on my own and decided to read all the books and then make my own informed decision, esp as people are so adamant one way or other.  And also the prospect seemed a bit daunting, so I wanted as much info as poss.  Books I'd recommend: Kmythy Schulz and Tom Lonsdale.  Tom's 'work wonders' book is a lot more manageable, his 'raw meaty bones' book is great but that's a lot of reading to get through.  Kmythy's book is also quite easy reading.  Ian Bilinghurst too.  They're all on Amazon - I'd start with Tom Lonsdale's 'Work Wonders' book.  They're all on Amazon and Amazon brings up other books on the same subject once you start searching, and the reader reviews of the books are worthwhile.  There's also a Yahoo group called Britbarf.
I've also been interested to read that dogs on BARF lose the "doggy" smell. Barney is very smelly despite regular baths so I wondered if that would help him. He atm is fed on Royal Canin. The other two are fed on Burns.
Sapphi my Lab is on the Burns weigh****cher food as she has a tendancy to put on weight, but we've also noticed over the last couple of weeks that her scavanging has increased dramatically, so I wondered if BARF would satisfy her more, without gaining the pounds.
And lastly we've noticed Max seems to have lost a bit of weight (and no Sapphi's not eating his food, they are watched like hawks!  :005: ) and his breath can be very smelly.  All three poo's can be a bit messy from time to time too.
The books often mention in their case studies overweight dogs losing weight, and underweight dogs gaining it, not to mention it clearing up all sorts of health problems from mild (dog breath, stinkiness) to the more serious like severe skin complaints.  One which might strike a chord with Cocker owners is the improvement it has on anal glands.  The poo is firmer, therefore they strain more, therefore the glands don't get blocked and need to be emptied by the vet.
So does anyone think BARF would help my three, could they be fed their normal food for one meal (as I have loads in) and BARF for the other meal? Am I better to wait a few months and finish up the dry food? And my last question, with three dogs will BARF cost me more than I already spend on their food?
I don't see why you couldn't phase BARF in, but I wouldn't give it in the same meal - the eating quick and choking thing.  With 3 dogs you'll have to watch out for guarding of food/bones and any nastiness as it takes a lot longer to eat - Ruby was growly with us intially and she's an 'only dog' but she got over it.  There's a risk they may get sniffy about their other food once they've had raw meat though!

Am I right in thinking you've got a lab?  I wouldn't start him on chicken wings - bigger bones until he learns not to swallow whole, and I'd supervise initially.  Base the bone on the size of the dog for dogs that aren't used to raw bones...the books go in to all this anyway.

As for cost, I entered into raw feeding fully expecting it to cost more.  We live in London, so it's not like there's an abundance of local markets/family butchers/farmer's markets, etc.  But actually it worked out much cheaper and far easier to buy as I can buy it all at the supermarket if I want - most I get from the fridge fresh meat section.  The fruit/veg side of things I don't really know what that adds up to as she eats the same fruit/veg as we do, and I've not noticed our shopping bills go up in price in that respect...maybe Ruby eats all my fruit and veg and I just get less >:. I was surprised at it costing less though.  Look at the supermarket economy range fresh meat and it's v.cheap.  They often reduce fresh meat, especially kidney/liver/heart as it's not a quick seller!  With 3 dogs you could buy a whole chicken and cut it up yourself perhaps?  Some butchers might give you some bones free.
I buy from either Tesco, Somerfield and occassionally Asda, and there's not much price difference.  As a rough guide:
Liver/kidneys/2 hearts come in packs for about £1.  Hearts slightly more, the other 2 slightly less.
10 chicken wings under £1
6 chicken thighs about £2 (frozen)
Large turkey leg with bone just over £1
From the butchers stall I normally come away with a heavy carrier bag full with half oxtail, half lamb with bone in for £10.
And I buy a big box of eggs too!
Any questions feel free to PM me.

Offline Claire

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Re: BARF sort of again
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2006, 10:28:27 PM »
I will also pick up meat and fish that is on offer/reduced to clear when I am in the supermarket - I got 6 whole mackerel for £3 the other day
Yes I do this.  Bought 4 packs of Herrings (2 whole in each pack), for about 50p each pack the other week.  Bargain, I said to myself.  Bleugh, Ruby said.  She won't eat them.  She gets fed outside and buries her herring, won't touch it.  And then, is more than happy to dig it up a week later in this heat and eat it then.  The stink, Oh you can't imagine ph34r.  No more herring for Ruby.  If she won't eat it fresh, she's not going to eat it at all!

Offline Claire

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Re: BARF sort of again
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2006, 10:30:32 PM »
BTW Barney looks a lot like Ruby from your avatar - adorable.  Do you have a close up shot?