Square peg, round hole

[Penel]

I have two feral cats - and I always say to people with difficult dogs - if you treat them with the same respect as you would a feral cat, you're on the right lines.  I only touch Basil when he indicates he wants to be touched, and if I go to touch him with 2 hands, he usually runs away, as he hates that.  Btw I've had him since he was 12 wks old, and he bit through someones finger -  he was going to be PTS but I thought I'd take him on  - and I have to say I am very glad I did, it has taught me so much.
Why should a dog want to be cuddled / handled all the time - they are not cuddly toys, they are dogs  Why should a dog tolerate its food bowl / bone being taken away - they are dogs.  And why do we expect them to do as they are told all the time, they are dogs, not small people in dog costumes.  My ferals have set the guidelines for the way they want to live, and if I respect that, we all get along fine 
If you can just accept your animal is an individual, with their own personality, and then work around that,you're doing ok.

[LurcherGirl]

In between that I use a clicker and positively reinforce any touching he does tolerate, Charlie HATES his back legs feet etc being touched. He would not let you touch his front legs/paws at first but is now quite tolerant of this as long as the liver cake smell is in the air.

This is one of these cases, where I would have a dog definitely checked up by a McTimoney chiropractor as there may well be pains in his legs that a vet can't detect, but a chiropractor can.

Vera

[*Jay*]

Brook had similar issues and, although I managed to alter some of his behaviours such as food aggression, he was still a very temperamental dog up until the day he died. I adapted my life around him and I would do it again in a heartbeat. He was threatened with PTS quite a lot when he was at his worst but when I left home, I took him with me as I was the only one able to deal with him confidently. I used to take him everywhere with me but with strict instructions not to touch him unless he approached them. At work one of the vets used to say that he had a euthatal deficiency   ( euthatal is the drug used to put an animal to sleep) - needless to say we didn't get on too well  

[PennyB]

We have a GSD in rescue with terrible issues (with people and certain dogs) --- with the right person and right environment she can be managed really well. Kirsty who runs the rescue now has her at home as she's also experienced with GSDs (her fave breed). Interestingly things have settled a little with Kaiya as since Kirsty's old shepherd died she's made a bond with her other young GSD and things are also beginning to improve as Kirsty has worked with her plus only walks her late at night when there's no one else around.

LouiseAS on here adopted Jakey (cocker) from a rescue knowing the issues he had and is managing him which I can imagine is hard and a challenge (Donna/Daunting also fostered him as well)

[Elisa]

My nanna , who had German shepherds, said Billy needs a rolled up newspaper 

Just remembered, a locem vet who examined Molly pronounced her as 'Little Satan' to everyone in the waiting room and told me she needed baseball bat treatment.

I think that is terrible 

So many excellent points raised here! 

Ditto 

[Emmylou]

Although I have no experience with aggressive dogs, I just wanted to support what many others have said.   I too believe that every dog should be teated as an individual and that you have to accept that some may have behaviour traits that are difficult and adjust the environment accordingly.  Although Cosby is not aggressive, he is a difficult dog and certainly has issues.  At first we found it very difficult to deal with as we were not expecting many of the problems when we bought a dog.  However, we undertood that when we bought him we had a responsibility to look after him the best we can and at the end of the day, this was Cosby and despite all the work we do, he's not going to change completely.  So we have adjusted our lives to accomodate him.  It hasn't been easy and there are times we think, I wish he just wouldn't do.... or I wish we could just...., but as I said this is Cosby and we love him and accept it. 

I sympathise with you because most of our family and friends think we are mad and many make comments that we should get rid of him etc.  I won't tell you what my uncle once said, but it involved a shotgun .  It is difficult with Cosby but I can't imagine how much more difficult it must be when you are dealing with aggression.  I truly believe that we have to try our best to modify behaviour, but sometimes we have to accept that dogs are like any other creature and they will have their own personality traits - the best we can do is love them and try to accomodate these traits.

[kb]

My dad is also of the type who believes that dogs should know they are dogs and know their place.

When I think about the dogs we had at home they were well behaved in that they didn't steal food etc, but they were aggressive.

We had a corgi/jack russell - she was a bad tekpered little so and so. She did not care that she was theheight of nothing - she put everything and everyone in their place. Was this her nature - I don't know - but I can see how the my dad's dominance theory made her worse.

We then had a corgi - she was a lovely dog - but very aggresive also - particularly with strangers -although very loving to the family.

We had these two dogs together and they fought terribly - they were really vicious, it was awful.

These dogs however were my dad's dogs - but looking back I don't know whether they loved or were so submossive to him because they were terrified of him.

The last dog they had was a westie and she was a different kettle of fish. She too was yappy and nippy. But no matter how much my dad tried to put her in her place, she wouldn't have it - and it was always my mum she went to.

As for Honey - dad can't figure her out at all. She is very nervous of him, and will do as she is told if she is being naughty and she willingly goes to him - but when it comes to commands such as sit etc, she will not do it fro him. Maybe this is because she has been trained to do them our way or maybe it is becuase when he tells her off in a reactive situation, she is frightened of him and outside of that she won't  do as he tells her.

We have problems with her and I probably put up with more from her than others would expect me to. she barks incessantly when strangers come into the house. If they ignore her, she is over for attention - but at her speed and in her way. If they make of her - she gets more frantic. If they give her attention too soon in the friend making process, she also willstart to bark.

She went to get groomed last week  - thegroomer completely ignored everything she did until she accepted her attention - and then they were friends.

Sometimes I feel so frustrtaed - I justthink why can't you leave her alone.

Our house is a very stressful house - my daughter has Asoergers and is prone to tantrums; my little daughter has Sensory Integration Dysfunction and also is very highly strung - I really do think this has affected Honey - a less nervous dog would probably be fine - but she is not.

This is the way she is - we prevent and manage behaviour as best we can

[Top Barks]

In between that I use a clicker and positively reinforce any touching he does tolerate, Charlie HATES his back legs feet etc being touched. He would not let you touch his front legs/paws at first but is now quite tolerant of this as long as the liver cake smell is in the air.

This is one of these cases, where I would have a dog definitely checked up by a McTimoney chiropractor as there may well be pains in his legs that a vet can't detect, but a chiropractor can.

Vera

Vera has made some good suggestions here that are worth following up.
I have just found this thread but it seems that  a lot of things suggested echo our conversations regarding Molly's case.
She is indeed different to other dogs( you just have to look at Sasha to see this) but you are learning that you cannot treat a reactive dog in the same way.
Accept Molly as she is and take any improvement as a bonus.
Also accept that the improvements will be in small steps and will not happen over night.
In the meantime manage her environment to be as stress free as possible and try to avoid the triggers that cause her to react(this is an important part of any behaviour modification you undertake).
Molly is a project that you might never finish but by putting into practice some of the methods we discussed you are giving your selves the best possible chance of making improvements to your relationship with her.
You will have bad days and setbacks for sure.
As I said Life with a reactive dog is no bed of roses and some days you will have had enough.
If you need somewhere to scream and rant then you have my number.
Best wishes to you and Molly
Mark

[Jan/Billy]

My ferals have set the guidelines for the way they want to live, and if I respect that, we all get along fine 

Billy and I get along much much better these days. Once I stopped thinking there was something wrong with him & accepted that he is what he is , things improved massively. I know what he likes & know what he doesn't and (I'm touching wood as I type) so far I've not had as much as a growl from him in at least 3 months. I appreciate that not all cases are as easy as this but if you can establish what freaks them out & what they like & don't like then you are half way there.

Another thing is that it's easy for our relatives/friends etc to sit there and say "get rid", but these are our animals, our family members, we love them dearly, it's not as easy as they make it out to be .

[spanielcrazy]

Other people are what make managing reactive dogs difficult. In the case of the dogwalker who met Molly, she's the one who should have been embarrased, and experienced dog person knows you don't pet a strange dog without permission, and if the dog should be alone and approaches you don't go right in patting it on the head. Unfortunately most people don't know, or ignore these things, then try to make the dog owner feel bad!

When dealing with children it's even more important to be absolutely firm and unbending "Don't touch the dog!!" You have to realize that you are the adult so it's up to you to control the situation firmly. (I mean a general "you" here, or maybe I should say "we")

And yes, friends and family can say some of the most awful things about the dog, but the dog is family too, although a lot of people don't feel that way about animals. I guess it's easy to be flippant and say "put the dog to sleep" or make horrible remarks about baseball bats and such when it's not your dog!
 
I think Penel drew a great analogy with the cats, most people just accept that cats are independant and aloof and don't make a big to do about it the way they do if a dog is independant and aloof. And most progress with feral cats truly does come when their privacy is respected.

Once again I am going to highly recommend the book "Bones Would Rain From the Sky" by Suzanne Clothier. Not a training manual or a how-to, but excellent fodder for thought on dogs personalities and emotions.

[spanielcrazy]

Last night on too occasions, and I think for the first time evr, Charlie came to me and pushed my arm for a stroke and his tail wagged like mad when i did so!

Well done Charlie!! 

[PennyB]

Other people are what make managing reactive dogs difficult. In the case of the dogwalker who met Molly, she's the one who should have been embarrased, and experienced dog person knows you don't pet a strange dog without permission, and if the dog should be alone and approaches you don't go right in patting it on the head. Unfortunately most people don't know, or ignore these things, then try to make the dog owner feel bad!

When dealing with children it's even more important to be absolutely firm and unbending "Don't touch the dog!!" You have to realize that you are the adult so it's up to you to control the situation firmly. (I mean a general "you" here, or maybe I should say "we")

When I walk foster dogs with my two I won't allow people to come up and pet the foster dog as often I don't know how they will react to strangers doing so --- I will often pull the dog behind me to stop this happening (quite a feat with two hooligans in tow as well). I then make a point of explaining why, and I would say it works for me.

its a pity those who have reactive dogs can't have a vest for their dogs that says something like 'dogs in training, do not disturb' --- I guess they're in training of sorts

[Dragon]

However, we undertood that when we bought him we had a responsibility to look after him the best we can and at the end of the day, this was Cosby and despite all the work we do, he's not going to change completely. 

This was brought home to us well and truly yesterday. I am still in shock seeing how Molly reacted to Mark (Top Barks). I have never seen her react so strongly, guaranteed he was pushing it a little, but it scared the pants off me. I can't believe our little cutie could look so vicious   However, Mark has helped us to understand that we're the best ones to help her and know her triggers.  It's going to be a hard mountain to climb with Molly, but we accept it's our responsibility and this is how Molly is

[Elisa]

Wishing you all the very best of luck with Molly.  I hope you keep us updated on how you are doing with her.  Remember we are here with support during the bad times and good.  It will seem like 2 steps forward and 3 steps back sometimes, but have every faith in you.  Molly is lucky to have such a caring family 

[Emmylou]

 However, Mark has helped us to understand that we're the best ones to help her and know her triggers.  It's going to be a hard mountain to climb with Molly, but we accept it's our responsibility and this is how Molly is
[/quote]

Just wanted to wish you good luck with Molly.  It is going to be difficult, but I'm sure it'll be rewarding as well.  If it gets too much, just take a step back and relax - and don't forget to put yourself first from time to time!!