Out of charachter warning growl?

[Jan/Billy]

Tbh Gracie wouldn't care if the child was 4, 14 or 44.    If anyone is behaving in a way thats not appropriate with a dog then there is every chance that the dog will warn them at the very least.  We can't say to Gracie that she's only 4 and you'll have to put up with whatever she does till she gets older and learns whats acceptable to you.
Thats the reason that we'd all adovate that children and dogs should be closley supervised at all times, and that children should be taught from their first interaction with a dog what they should and shouldn't do.

Couldn't agree more with this.

I get really really annoyed when bad behaviour towards dogs is excused "because it was a child"

[spanielcrazy]

What Gracie did is perfecly acceptable behaviour in the dog world, someone forcefully tried to cut into the queue and got told off for it. The bad behaviour was not on the dogs part. Unfortunately we expect dogs to accept all manner of bad behaviour from humans without complaint 

[cazza]

Tbh Gracie wouldn't care if the child was 4, 14 or 44.    If anyone is behaving in a way thats not appropriate with a dog then there is every chance that the dog will warn them at the very least.  We can't say to Gracie that she's only 4 and you'll have to put up with whatever she does till she gets older and learns whats acceptable to you.
Thats the reason that we'd all adovate that children and dogs should be closley supervised at all times, and that children should be taught from their first interaction with a dog what they should and shouldn't do.

Couldn't agree more with this.

I get really really annoyed when bad behaviour towards dogs is excused "because it was a child"

What Gracie did is perfecly acceptable behaviour in the dog world, someone forcefully tried to cut into the queue and got told off for it. The bad behaviour was not on the dogs part. Unfortunately we expect dogs to accept all manner of bad behaviour from humans without complaint 

I agree totally with all has been said jan, sam, and spanielcrazy

[Cazzie]

What Gracie did is perfecly acceptable behaviour in the dog world, someone forcefully tried to cut into the queue and got told off for it. The bad behaviour was not on the dogs part. Unfortunately we expect dogs to accept all manner of bad behaviour from humans without complaint 

Im sorry but Gracie does not live with a pack of dogs, this is totally unacceptable behaviour IMO, yes children can upset dogs & should be closely supervised and taught how to behave towards dogs but if I had a dog that growled at anyone im afraid I would be extremely concerned. (sorry forgot to add) was there lots of people in the house?

[ali]

What Gracie did is perfecly acceptable behaviour in the dog world, someone forcefully tried to cut into the queue and got told off for it. The bad behaviour was not on the dogs part. Unfortunately we expect dogs to accept all manner of bad behaviour from humans without complaint 

Im sorry but Gracie does not live with a pack of dogs, this is totally unacceptable behaviour IMO, yes children can upset dogs & should be closely supervised and taught how to behave towards dogs but if I had a dog that growled at anyone im afraid I would be extremely concerned. (sorry forgot to add) was there lots of people in the house?

cazzie, this just opens up a debate about how dogs communicate with humans which i'm sure was recently held on a different thread. i of course respect your opinion that dogs should not growl but i personally feel that it is a totally valid way for a dog to communicate. growling is a warning. it's not an act of agression in itself, as i understand it. it's a way of a dog showing that it is unhappy. i know a lot of people on this forum's concern with not allowing a dog to growl is that you take away a crucial way of it's communicating a warning to you, and end up with a dog that may well one day just snap and seriously bite someone because it feels there is no other way to tell that person to back off.

[Rhona W]

i personally feel that it is a totally valid way for a dog to communicate. growling is a warning. it's not an act of agression in itself, as i understand it. it's a way of a dog showing that it is unhappy. i know a lot of people on this forum's concern with not allowing a dog to growl is that you take away a crucial way of it's communicating a warning to you, and end up with a dog that may well one day just snap and seriously bite someone because it feels there is no other way to tell that person to back off.

Totally agree with this Ali.  I would much rather my dogs growl to warn/tell me that they are not happy in a situation, so that I can do something about it for them. Rather than the dogs feel they have to sort it out for themselves.
My kids all know that if the dogs ever do growl at them, then it means the dogs are not happy and they have to leave them alone. (I must add that this situation hardly ever arises, but it can do. For example, last Sunday when Reuben was feeling ill and was then sick.)   

[Jan/Billy]

Im sorry but Gracie does not live with a pack of dogs, this is totally unacceptable behaviour IMO, yes children can upset dogs & should be closely supervised and taught how to behave towards dogs but if I had a dog that growled at anyone im afraid I would be extremely concerned.

So please can you explain exactly how you expect a dog to let you know it's not happy with a situation? Do you not accept that this is how dogs communicate?  

There is a big difference between a dog growling to get it's own way & one just communicating, which is what happened in this case.

Sorry , I know I sound "off" but comments like that really annoy me  

[Cazzie]

Im sorry but Gracie does not live with a pack of dogs, this is totally unacceptable behaviour IMO, yes children can upset dogs & should be closely supervised and taught how to behave towards dogs but if I had a dog that growled at anyone im afraid I would be extremely concerned.

So please can you explain exactly how you expect a dog to let you know it's not happy with a situation? Do you not accept that this is how dogs communicate?  

There is a big difference between a dog growling to get it's own way & one just communicating, which is what happened in this case.

Sorry , I know I sound "off" but comments like that really annoy me  

No its a valid point.

I asked if there was alot of people around in the house at the time of this happening as preventing a situation is often best especially if there is alot of children around. I know exactly what situations my dogs will be comfortable in and if there is going to be something that arises such as big gatherings/lots of kids around the dogs are looked after elsewhere/or kept in another part of the house its just kinder on the dogs even though I know they would be ok.

I am very fortunate that I have never experienced any dog of mine growl at anyone especially kids and none of my dogs ever give me a warning by growling. I just do not put my dogs into situations that any untoward behaviour could arise even though I know they would be ok I just would not take the chance.

Also another thing my dogs do not communicate with me by growling they leave that when dealing with other dogs, my dogs are always happy around me and other people they are comfortable within their own surroundings and never feel threatened even around their food.

But I will ask you, do you think it is acceptable that a dog growls at you because I dont and I will never accept it thats why I will continue to own dogs that do not have aggression issues.

Can I ask you a question, what would you do if you're dog growls at you when you go to remove a bone/food or toy?

Sorry taking away from original topic.

[Cob-Web]

I am very fortunate that I have never experienced any dog of mine growl at anyone especially kids and none of my dogs ever give me a warning by growling. I just do not put my dogs into situations that any untoward behaviour could arise even though I know they would be ok I just would not take the chance.

Have any of your dogs ever been pulled from behind by an unfamiliar child when the were looking for reassurance from you, after previously seeking refuge in a corner from the same child ? 

I think it is rather contradictory to say you wouldn't accept growling as a form of communication, but then say that you don't put your dogs in situations they are not comfortable with 

Molo has never growled at lil'bit, and only ever growled at me when he is pain/discomfort - but if he were ever in the situation that Gracie found herself in, then I would consider myself lucky to have a dog with such tolerance....not consider his behaviour unacceptable 

[helen1]

i Dont pretend to know everything about dogs but agree entirely with Nicola's first post on this.  Ithink your dog may have got a fright.

[Jan/Billy]

But I will ask you, do you think it is acceptable that a dog growls at you because I dont and I will never accept it thats why I will continue to own dogs that do not have aggression issues.

If say I asked him to get down from the sofa & he growled then I'd think he was a cheeky monkey & pushing his luck with me like a stroppy child.

If say I was grooming him & I accidently pulled his hair & I really hurt him & he growled, then I'd back off.

 In my opinion the two are different.

I wouldn't expect billy to sit there whilst I hurt him by pulling his hair and not let me know that he wasn't happy. Why should he?


I strongly disagree , and get sick and tired of  a dog who growls being seen as a dog with "something wrong".

No one can ever ever say their dog will never growl.

Can I ask you a question, what would you do if you're dog growls at you when you go to remove a bone/food or toy?

He wouldn't growl for me removing a toy, but he would a bone. I don't remove toys from him & I don't remove bones as I don't ever feel the  need to . Plus I don't put him in situations that I know he won't be comfortable with.
I don't doubt for one minute you'll have something to say about that  though


I can honestly say hand on heart, had it been Billy in this situation I wouldn't be alarmed by this reaction. It's how dogs communicate.

Did anyone ever say to the dog "oh by the way, now that you live with humans your communication methods can no longer be used here?

[Cazzie]

I am very fortunate that I have never experienced any dog of mine growl at anyone especially kids and none of my dogs ever give me a warning by growling. I just do not put my dogs into situations that any untoward behaviour could arise even though I know they would be ok I just would not take the chance.

Have any of your dogs ever been pulled from behind by an unfamiliar child when the were looking for reassurance from you, after previously seeking refuge in a corner from the same child ? 

I think it is rather contradictory to say you wouldn't accept growling as a form of communication, but then say that you don't put your dogs in situations they are not comfortable with 

Molo has never growled at lil'bit, and only ever growled at me when he is pain/discomfort - but if he were ever in the situation that Gracie found herself in, then I would consider myself lucky to have a dog with such tolerance....not consider his behaviour unacceptable 

My dogs have been pulled/lifted and so on by kids that come to my house but are alway's supervised as they normally sticks their tounges in peoples mouths Knock kids over and steal food out of kids hands. Also what is contradictory about saying that I put my dogs out of large gathering situations. Its prob more  for my own sanity than anything else. But I still stand by my previous reply, and will not tollerate that behaviour in this house and it is made clear from day 1.

[Michele]

But I still stand by my previous reply, and will not tollerate that behaviour in this house and it is made clear from day 1.

Can I ask how you obtain that submissive, repressed attitude from your dogs?

[Jan/Billy]

My dogs have been pulled/lifted and so on by kids that come to my house but are alway's supervised as they normally sticks their tounges in peoples mouths Knock kids over and steal food out of kids hands.

Well I supose that's where we are all different as I would never allow kids or Billy to do either of those to each other (smilies not working :-)   ) .

[Cob-Web]

My dogs have been pulled/lifted and so on by kids that come to my house but are alway's supervised as they normally sticks their tounges in peoples mouths Knock kids over and steal food out of kids hands. 

I think you have been very lucky so far, and if you allow children to continue to behave like this towards your dogs then imo, it is a case of when, not if, one of your dogs bites

You have taught your dogs to suppress their natural method of expressing their discomfort......what behaviour do you permit them to express when they are in a situation that they are not comfortable with ??  or are you so confident in your control of your dogs environment that you are sure that they will never be faced with the unexpected ?