Badly behaved houseguest coming to stay!

[Elisa]

would this not be classed as theft tho? if h&c really wants the dog then getting on the wrong side of the owners would be a disaster i understand where you're coming from rachel but for the first time ever, i think i have actually talked some sense

Yes, it might meet the legal definition of theft, although it would be a grey area under the circumstances   

It would depend on how H&C BIL/wife reacted as to how far it went, but I doubt it would ever go to court - and tbh, they could easily become subject to an Animal Welfare investigation if they keep the dog locked in a garage for hours at a time and someone reports them for it 

I doubt very much whether it would ever go down the animal welfare route, considering the conditions some dogs have to live in and aren't subject to removal under the new animal welfare bill.

[Jan/Billy]

I think you're best off keeping friendly with them for now, for Fudges sake. The last thing you want is a fall out, you need to be there for Fudge for the short term whilst this is sorted out 

[lyn]

i once reported a dog that was left outside all day/night. its shelter was some wooden pallets knocked together. i was told if it had any kind of shelter then nothing could be done.
there are new laws concerning animal welfare but, not sure if this situation would be covered

[Tasha]

I don't think it would unless he's not left with any water or food or if they refused him medical attention when needed.  The laws only really cover the basics.

I suppose there are different levels of what people class as provision of a good home and level of care and attention.  I know lots of working dogs are kennelled all day long other than if they are being exercised or worked and some have straw or woodshavings for bedding which if your used to providing a home for your dog in your home can appear to be somewhat cruel - dogs are fine though.

This sounds more like a case of basic lack of attention and an in ability to provide proper training or knowing how to sort out issues when they have arisen   Rather than seeing that there is a problem with their training or their way of dealing with any issues that have arisen its being blamed on the dog... there are still people who get a dog and expect them to be perfect without any training.

Maybe you could show her what you have been doing, don't place any blame for now being friendly probably will be the best for all concerned, sometimes being sympathetic whilst dropping in bits of advice might help... hard when its family because there is always other baggage attached outside of the situation you have.

[heelers n cockers]

This story is very poignant for me as my bayley was kept isolated in a garage and physically punished.
When he came to me Via Jane S he had the mental scars to prove it.
With love, understanding and a lot of hard work he has been transformed.
It can be done but it has to be done sooner rather than later.
Can you not persuade your relatives that what they are doing is wrong!
I'll give you my number if you think they would listen to behavioural advice and if they are not too stubborn to know what's good for their dog.
They do however need to understand what they are doing is making the dog worse for anybody to help them and this poor little doggie.
Best of luck in your efforts and If i can help with any advice please PM me.
Mark

Mark i read about bayley and the similarities with fudges situation are too close for comfort, at the moment his aggression is only directed at his owners but how long before he turns his aggression to someone else?
thank you for the offer of your number, we will have to suggest this to them when they pick him up on tuesday.

I would suggest what Mark said --- but may be phrase it in such a way that its not personal/attack on them. Sometimes if a person feels under attack they can dig their heels in considerably but if something is phrased so its about the situation or similar rather than the person it can be dealt with better

yes i have been thinking about this all night-what if i was to suggest talking to someone (Mark) who has had  a similar problem, and has experience of aggression in Cockers, surely they cant dismiss, offhand, a professional who has experience in this field

[heelers n cockers]

I think you're best off keeping friendly with them for now, for Fudges sake. The last thing you want is a fall out, you need to be there for Fudge for the short term whilst this is sorted out 

i think what Jan/Billy has said is so true...surely it is better not to fall out over fudge, however much i hate thinking about giving him back on tuesday, that way we can still be in contact and still look after him when they go off again. even though she has said 'what do you want him for? you've already got a Cocker!' i felt like saying......well its like this one Cocker is fab but two are better! (actually the more the merrier i say! )

[Top Barks]

This story is very poignant for me as my bayley was kept isolated in a garage and physically punished.
When he came to me Via Jane S he had the mental scars to prove it.
With love, understanding and a lot of hard work he has been transformed.
It can be done but it has to be done sooner rather than later.
Can you not persuade your relatives that what they are doing is wrong!
I'll give you my number if you think they would listen to behavioural advice and if they are not too stubborn to know what's good for their dog.
They do however need to understand what they are doing is making the dog worse for anybody to help them and this poor little doggie.
Best of luck in your efforts and If i can help with any advice please PM me.
Mark

Mark i read about bayley and the similarities with fudges situation are too close for comfort, at the moment his aggression is only directed at his owners but how long before he turns his aggression to someone else?
thank you for the offer of your number, we will have to suggest this to them when they pick him up on tuesday.

I would suggest what Mark said --- but may be phrase it in such a way that its not personal/attack on them. Sometimes if a person feels under attack they can dig their heels in considerably but if something is phrased so its about the situation or similar rather than the person it can be dealt with better

yes i have been thinking about this all night-what if i was to suggest talking to someone (Mark) who has had  a similar problem, and has experience of aggression in Cockers, surely they cant dismiss, offhand, a professional who has experience in this field

The answer to your question is i don't know if or when any aggression will transfer to other people.
All cases and dogs are different.
Your relatives need to be on board and committed to helping this dog and would have to be open minded enough to listen to a behaviourist for this to help.
From what I've read it seems as if they don't think there is a problem.
I was lucky as the vet that Bayley was taken to refused to put him to sleep and got him signed over to a rescue.
I would love to meet her one day and show her what the little lad is now capable of.
I am not out to victimise or criticize any owner unduly.
I would rather work with them to change the way they live with their dog with encouragement and giving them the knowledge to do it, but it's the same as stopping smoking or drinking i guess in the way that you have to WANT to do it for it to succeed.
Mark

[spanielcrazy]

Could you try just saying that since he's stayed with you these last few days that you've really become attached to him and you'd love to have him? 
That way there would be no inferences about anyones lack of caring or ability, or not making it sound like you can do a better job with him, just that you love him and want to have him.

Sounds to me like your SIL might have some jealousy/control issues so you'd have to frame it very carefully.

I really wish the best for him   

[Hurtwood Dogs]

Or even, that you've decided to look for another dog as you've enjoyed having him so much over the weekend and the house will feel too empty without him etc.. the kids are really going to miss him and ask if he could come and stay sometimes over the school hols (sorry if I've mis-read in my head I think you have kids but if not, your dog will miss him etc!) That way, they will feel chuffed that you're so impressed with their dog and they might release the grip on him a little and let you get more involved. Then you can see how it goes from there and work with them or towards him moving to you if that's what you think might be best? Even talk about other dogs that you theoretically might be interested in re-homing (but they just don't have a patch on fudge etc..)

It's a tricky situation if you are related and you have to be careful not to damage your relationship with BIL. I wish you the best of luck in managing it all and hope fudge is able to work his way towards a happier life soon

Hannah x

[cdpops]

I am not good with advice at all so I just want to say I hope things work out for Fudge and you all.

[Elisa]

Hows it going with Fudge?

I had a thought today, and I don't know how feasible it is, but could you offer to look after him while his owners are at work.  I know it doesn't sound like a great idea at the moment, but it allows you to slowly increase your time with him and hopefully after a short while, it might just become apparent to his owners that as he spends so much time with you, he might as well become a permanent member of your family 

[Jan/Billy]

I had a thought today, and I don't know how feasible it is, but could you offer to look after him while his owners are at work.  I know it doesn't sound like a great idea at the moment, but it allows you to slowly increase your time with him and hopefully after a short while, it might just become apparent to his owners that as he spends so much time with you, he might as well become a permanent member of your family 

ooohhh good idea 

[heelers n cockers]

I had a thought today, and I don't know how feasible it is, but could you offer to look after him while his owners are at work.  I know it doesn't sound like a great idea at the moment, but it allows you to slowly increase your time with him and hopefully after a short while, it might just become apparent to his owners that as he spends so much time with you, he might as well become a permanent member of your family 

ooohhh good idea 

it is a good idea...but we have suggested this before, and the offer hasent been taken up. but he is staying until tomorrow (wed) tea (cos wife said she has to go out tonight and fudge will be on his own for too long!), and we are bringing him up. so we will see what they have to say.

so far fudge has been very good, he has had a few blips on his record though, mainly growling but this has been directed at people (which is a bit worrying  ), the first time was at my son (fudge has NEVER growled at my son before ), when he went to pick up the end of the houseline (which was no where near fudge) and fudge ran to where my son was standing and would not let him move away, and he stood growling at him-luckily my son knows not to move when a dog growls at him-so i walked up to fudge, took the houseline and distracted him by doing sit and reward excercises. i have now told my son that he should ask fudge to sit BEFORE he has any kind of interaction with him, if fudge doesnt sit, fudge gets ignored, when fudge sits, fudge gets a cuddle, i have also said that ashley should instigate the affection (an idea from another thread  ) and this seems to be working, as he hasnt growled at him since-but of course i am very wary, especially as he has growled at my hubby, my mum and my sis-all at different times and situations-he was then ignored, and only when he had settled down was he asked to come over and sit before getting greeted calmly, after that he was fine and hasnt growled at any body since  this is a new thing with him, should i be unduly worried? will it escalate into biting? and how can i stop it before it starts getting worse?  
  

[Jan/Billy]

 this is a new thing with him, should i be unduly worried? will it escalate into biting? and how can i stop it before it starts getting worse?  
  [/color]

Yes I would be, it would make me realise I need to be careful with him.  It's not unexpected though , the poor thing has been through an awful lot in his life, he's bounds to have some issues. I'd give him space, don't crowd him & WALK AWAY from any bad behaviour such as growling etc.

It's hard to know whats going on until he's been seen by a behaviourist.

Billy has issues( growling & biting) , but as you may have seen on my other thread we have had months of superb behaviour and have just had a bad week this week. This is what it's like, good times & bad times. I'd imagine it's the same with fudge although his is probably a lot more frequent by the sounds of it.

I think you're doing a superb job, I reallly do, fudge is so so so lucky to have you  

[CarolineL]

 this is a new thing with him, should i be unduly worried? will it escalate into biting? and how can i stop it before it starts getting worse?  
  [/color]

I think you're doing a superb job, I reallly do, fudge is so so so lucky to have you  

Completely agree with you Jan - HnC  you ARE doing an amazing job with this dog who clearly needs his own space and someone who understands him and his issues (that are clearly no fault of his own). He must be such a confused little doggie - I just hope that your BIL gives you the opportunity and credit where its due to take Fudge on full time